Bob Thiel notes, over on his blog, that February is now past and there's precious little out there to corroborate the Weinland fantasies.
Which is very true, though I'd add that there's an equally impressive track record of disconfirmation for Dr. Roderick C. Spanky's "three to five years" routine which, it seems, he's been blathering on about since the 1950s. I guess Math isn't his strong suit.
Ronnie, however, committed the cardinal sin of not hedging any bets. The End is datable. In a perverse way it makes him less a slimeball than the greasy prevaricators who run the larger tithe-farming operations.
But, as Alfred E. Neuman is famous for saying: "What me worry?"
Bob reminds us that, according to Weinland, the dread 1290 days of prophecy begins March 18. (The 1335 days, as previously reported here, supposedly began February 2.)
So, do you think Ron is worried at the apparent inability of the Eternal to fulfill his part of the Doomsday bargain? It's certainly not a polite thing for He Whose Name Is Faithful and True to fail to turn up on time for his own apocalypse.
Do you think his tithe payers might be having second thoughts?
In that March 18 also marks my birthday, I shall be specially alert to the import of the date this year. In fact, I'll probably have to consult with Dennis Diehl as to whether this "coincidence" gives me an inside running on being one of the Two Witnesses.
Now if only I knew where to pick up a designer sackcloth shirt...
40 comments:
Designer sackcloth? No problem, Gav-o! Willie Nelson has started the international "hemp" movement, and some hip companies have caught on, already.
You might try:
http://store.hempfest.com/catalog/
I've already previewed the site, and there's everything an aspiring Witness might need!
BB
"...math isn't his strong suit..."
I did a little piece on this over at the Shadows forum. Won't bore y'all with the full text, but, to summarize, these cats that are relying on math to calculate the time of the end are totally missing the point! If it had been a matter of math, Jesus certainly would have known the formula! But, He said only the Father knew.
When the end comes is more likely a judgement call that Heavenly Father makes unilaterally, based on the condition of the earth vis a vis manmade existential threats, and the overal climate of morality and safety for mankind.
That means fools can't calculate it, and their profiteering end time messages don't mean diddley.
BB
I would wager the end time messages proving false will mean something to the sheeple who are currently being fleeced by Weinland and his ministers of misery, Bob.
Agreed, Aggie. It just breaks my heart that some good, well-intentioned people are being set up to be hurt. Well, let's not sugar coat it. They're in the process of being spiritually raped!
BB
Sorry BB but the link did not work.
But this one did..
http://www.hempbeer.com/
I wonder if I will pass my next drug test???
Try http://store.hempest.com/catalog/
BB
' When the end comes is more likely a judgement call that Heavenly Father makes unilaterally, based on the condition of the earth vis a vis manmade existential threats, and the overal climate of morality and safety for mankind. '
The 6000 years may well be symbolic and not literal: God has placed a limit on human incompetence and in His chosen time will say 'Enough is enough'.
"The 6000 years may well be symbolic and not literal: God has placed a limit on human incompetence and in His chosen time will say 'Enough is enough'."
Which of course will then reflect badly on God who originally determined that all he had made was very good until it wasn't and he was sorry he even bothered revealing a certain lack of insight and planning.
The simple, basic problem with Ronald Weinland is that God never spoke to him at all. Ronald made it all up on his own. This approach never works. It does catch peoples' attention, though, and wastes their time.
Anonymous said,"This approach never works. It does catch peoples' attention, though, and wastes their time."
MY COMMENT - The WCG experience was a waste of time and MONEY - unless of course you were one of those on the gravy train receiving end of "God's way is GIVE".
Richard
Being one of the two witnesses, or in the case of more portly humans, two of the one witness, seems to be rather a mixed bag. I'd avoid it, even if designer sackcloth is available in your color. Are you a Spring or Autumn?
I'm still waiting
The Old Testament was really hard on false prophets. Balaam was not held in high esteem. In the New Testament, neither Elymas nor Simon, the Sorcerer, were treated with respect in Scripture. To coin a phrase from the Apostle Peter, "your money perish with you".
Jesus was emphatic that we should "beware of false prophets". He told us, "by their fruit, you shall know them". He described them as ravenous wolves.
The Bible has done the unpopular politically incorrect thing of abusing the good name of false prophets. Apparently, God is against them: Idolatry and blasphemy seems to be only the tip of the problem. False Prophets are liars. They may be nice guys you'd have a quiet drink with and they may be well-heeled, but at the end of the day, Christians and the godly are to avoid them. They are not of God.
Of Skunks and Cobras
There are those who claim that those who follow the Bible concerning false prophets -- that they are to be rejected and marked -- show hatred for the false prophets. That is a manipulative device to excuse their own rejection and rebellion against God. After all that is said and done, most people don't hate skunks and cobras: They are what they are and part of the eco system. On the other hand, though people may say bad and nasty things about skunks and cobras but they don't hate them, they certainly don't embrace them.
Still waiting
So it comes down to this: If anyone can show us validly from Scriptures in the Bible that we should embrace false prophets and speak well of them, then fine.
Otherwise, put or shut up.
UCG had a sickness problem in February -- and it kept one members' video from being taped.
These competitors surely are watching Mr. Weinland as much as we are. Do you think they'd hiding news about the deaths of ministers, to guard against anyone walking to the Weinland way?
(Remember, WCG didn't announce J.W. Tkach Sr.'s death to the news media until three days after it happened.)
As far as I know, Weinland didn't specifically call out any of the ministers from UCG to die.
His membership is now revising their history, and claiming Rotten Ronnie said that Meredith and the other ministers (along with the rest of their "flocks") will be gathered back into the CoG-PKG before March 18th, as a lead-up to "the seventh seal" opening on April 17th, and that it wasn't really about death at all.
Weinland, however, still has it up on his Interview Comments page that Meredith is scheduled to die (conveniently without a date).
Weinland also exhorted the membership to "start talking about the book" (Ron's book) to family members a little bit before then but "do it wisely and don't push" until after March 18th. Remember, these family members will likely either have come out of Armstrongism completely, or they are still in one CoG splinter or another.
There was also mention made of cards that the membership will be handing out to the unsuspecting public after March 18th. I'm still working on getting more info on those.
I understand that Weiland was a minister in UCG before leaving to start his own church. If that is true, God will never reveal anything to him. For UCG was started by a pack of hirelings, who betrayed the flock for a financial package, but the prophet Jeremiah describes it as a bribe.
In addition, John was told not to record what the seven thunders uttered, so how come Weiland knows what they said?
As for the 1290 and 1335 days, I have never heard an explanation of them that makes any sense to me. But any explanation concocted by the discredited ministers in Cog-land, must be rejected without hesitation.
The Flurryites did this same thing about two years ago, when Little Stephen's book "Raised From the Ruins" came out. They rushed the media, their members started bombarding the internet with gushing book reviews on Amazon, and then it all fizzled. At one point, they were even posting on some of our blogs and forums under ridiculous screen names, like "A Must Read". Next thing we knew, Flurry was announcing his ground breaking for his replica "House for God".
For some reason that I just can't fathom, these people act as if they really feel that God is going to raise the two witnesses from some branch of Armstrongism! God, of course can and will do as He sees fit. But, one wonders why He would even waste His time with an organization with a history of failed or false prophecy. Too much of a credibility issue. He'd be shooting Himself in the spiritual foot, so to speak.
I believe that all non-repentent/active ACOG ministers should be required to purchase and maintain an a$$. From what I read in the Bible, that is the way God reveals things to folks like them.
BB
Sackcloth and ashes! That's what's been missing from the CoG formula. Instead of wearing those thousand dollar suits, the ministers should have been wearing sackcloth and ashes . . . plus throwing dust in the air . . . that was a popular tradition too.
I almost left off prostrating and grovelling, the God of Israel requires a lot of that.
So, if the COGer wants his prayers answered, he must protrate himself and grovel on the ground in sackcloth with ashes heaped on his head and toss some dust in the air . . . otherwise, they aren't humble enough for Israel's God.
Hey, don't blame me, it's in the Bible!
Yeah, Corky.
That seems to be the correct path. Somehow, jumping out of a stretch limousine, in one's Armani suit, for a book signing doesn't quite seem Biblical.
BB
Please, please, beyond sackcloth and ashes, do remember the renting of garments, plucking out hair from head and beard [if any].
Gavin,
We are most happy to custom-make you a designer sackcloth shirt,GRATIS,with presumably the "WEINLAND" label attached.
Will that be double or single stitching,long sleeve or short sleeve, hooded or unhooded,knee length or calf length.
Convey your measurements and choice of colour via this blog and we will rustle up a suitable number within a few days.
The material is rated for the "itchy-scratchy" scale.Advise the degree of friction you require.
Also what is your choice of colour.
Once we have these particulars we can commence "manufacture."
Seamus
Gavin,
Trinny and Susannah have been known to advise British miners on matters of dress.
They are currently in NZ, and an urgent call to them might produce a suitable garment for your witnessing.
March 18th..could we call your designer sackcloth shirt your "birthday suit"?
Jorgheinz
Weinland does not need sackcloth, because he IS the sack! A lyin' sack of ........
Gavin said:
"I'll probably have to consult with Dennis Diehl as to whether this "coincidence" gives me an inside running on being one of the Two Witnesses"
I believe that we can safely say that YOU are NOT one of the Two Witnesses. No true TW would ever note the day of his birth. The day of our death is better than the day of our birth as you might recall. So...Gav...You're out of the running!
If you having a designer outfit made, please don't take it out of my tithes that I send to you. My money is for the final push and don't go building no office complex, Auditorium or campus with it either, like Dave now feels God wants him to do. sheesh!
:)
BC said...
"Please, please, beyond sackcloth and ashes, do remember the renting of garments"
I've seen that on wrestling matches on TV. The Hulk used to do that all the time, just before beating up the bad guys.
Those guys were sooooo emotional in the Bible. What if a preacher today rent his garment everytime he saw a sin about to be committed?
Act 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
"Those guys were sooooo emotional in the Bible. What if a preacher today rent his garment everytime he saw a sin about to be committed? "
He'd be preachin' naked before he ever go out the door of his own church.
Gavin,
A bit of fine tuning for your sackcloth shirt.
In the best of splinter group tradition,I feel you need to wear SAKA-CLOTH or SACAE-CLOTH.
This would give you more credence in the eyes of both Messrs Flurry and Meredith.They would feel more comfortable with this nicety, though you possibly may not.
Perhaps our NZ native flax,Phormium Tenax, could be scutched and processed to fit the specifications of Saka-cloth.
One other detail...would you prefer woven or knitted material?
Seamus
Now, THAT'S a type of full disclosure I'd rather NOT see from JoeJr!
I'd not worry about full disclosure of any kind from WCG. It runs counter to the cause.
Seamus: Thank you for the kind offer. Knitted, black (of course, in view of Bob Thiel's comments), front and side pockets (to stash the tithe cheques and folding cash), hood-free and minimal scratchiness. Size L. Feel free to take the costs out of the back-tithes you owe me ;-)
Dennis: Too late, construction on the Hall of Admin has already begun.
Gavin
Weinland did indeed come out of United, and so did Wayne Matthews in Australia. CoG-PKG claims Weinland's "man in the US" Harrell, came out of United as well, but if he did, United ain't saying, and there's no proof online that he did.
Harrell, in the meantime, is alleged to have been a member of WCG for twenty-five to thirty years...no word on what he did prior to that time, however.
(Harrell may indeed be from Georgia, with a home construction business in either Eatonton or Macon. Harrell may also have been involved with a WCG congregation in Saint Petersburg, FL at some point, or have family members who were. I don't have conclusive evidence of that though.)
Weinland parted company with UCG in the wake of RW's making public the UCG Council of Elders' misappropriation of $4.5M USD in funds in 1996. A fairly large percentage of Weinland's United congregations in Ohio went with him when they parted ways.
Matthews came from United, perhaps some time later; as of 1998, he was still affiliated with UCG, as he helped make arrangements for the Melbourne leg of Anglo-Israelism proponent Rick Sherrod's speaking tour.
United is taking a head-in-the-sand approach to RonCo and his seven seals of the apocalypse; email to the general info line inquiring as to Harrell's past with the UCG still has not been responded to, and it's been just shy of a week since I inquired.
United seems to be a carbon copy of WCG ca. 1988, only (thankfully) smaller: Their TV vehicle "Beyond Today" had a recent episode aimed at reaching out to those practicing "hate speech" (they even interviewed an African-American minister from a mainstream church), yet, the first thing you see when you go to United's web site is?
You guessed it: An online copy of US&BC. So yeah, I'm not holding out much hope on United feeling that Weinland's too much of a threat to them, which is why they're just pretending the CoG-PKG doesn't exist, and that its ministers never preached under their mandate. Regardless of the truth.
If Gerald Flurry can know the "little book" swallowed in Revelation is Malachi's Message (as he's said many times), certainly Mr. Weinland can know the seven thunders.
God might well be providing NEW REVELATION!!! for His church at this critical juncture.
Know what really bothers me about the ACOGs? The fact is, I'd just love to see Jesus return, and bring us all a better way of life.
My problem with this has always been the self righteous gloating and elitism on the part of the Armstrongites reflected in the way they present their beliefs on this topic to the general public. Certainly there are other Christian denominations who are equally at fault for this, but still, the ACOGs seem to be just about the most extreme. I may be totally wrong, but they appear to self-righteously thrive on the suffering of others.
If Revelation was intended to be part of the canon, meaning that it would be a true vision of what is to come, it would seem that there's going to be a heck of a lot of human suffering as a prerequisite to Jesus' return. The parousia, in fact, seems to be a function of YHWH realizing that everything has become so totally evil, that He must pull the plug, only in a slightly different fashion than Noah's flood. How could anyone be happy about that? Let alone profiteering from it, or gaining fame by it?
It'd be nice if we just ran out of time, and Jesus returned in a non-violent setting. Like, maybe, the work all Christians did took effect on people's hearts, and we as the human race simply welcomed Him. Wouldn't it all have more meaning that way? A kind of voluntary situation? In a court of law, anything done under duress is considered invalid.
BB
Gavin,
I forgot to offer a pair of matching sandals to complement your minimally irritating hairshirt.
The pockets will be well concealed in order to show no bulging.
For the balance of the tithes I will send you a cheque pre-dated January 1972.
Seamus
It hath come to my attention, by various means and machinations, that this month of March is one that could see much fulfilment of soothsaying and augury.
Your donning of the sackcloth at this time of Lent is most fortuitous,yea, maybe even serendipitous.
The entrails reveal that the Ides of March(15th) may need to be renamed the Tides of March( a pre-emptive tsunami),a precursor to the period that Witness Weinland has nominated.
The Festival of Astarte will bring you many birthday treats in the form of marshmallow eggs.Easter being early this year,it could be the March Hare that delivers these goodies to your cavern of abode.
Don't forget to take your laptop with you,and for goodness sake don't mess it up with all that chocolate from those eggs.
Jorgheinz
Tom, Armstrongism's most perfect supporter mocks United's formation and the various splinter cults that have split off of it.
It's funny how you ignore the FACT that your god Lord MerryDeath has dubious events surround the start of his splinter cult.
Lord MerryDeath had run off at the mouth in Tuscon about Buffy McNair's first wife in front of 700 'ministers' of the4 WCG. He smeared Leona's name with all kinds of accusations, all in an tempt to justify Buffy wanting to marry another divorced woman.
Lord MerryDeath was then sued along with WCG. Old Golden Gloves stayed with WCG all through the court proceedings for one simple reason...WCG was paying for the court costs that would have otherwise bankrupted him.
While all of this was going on, several; MerryDeath loyalists were conspiring behind the scenes to set up an organization for Lord MerryDeath to step into. By doing this Lord MerryDeath could rightfully say HE did not start it but was asked to come and take care of the 'loyal brethren' who were standing up for HWA's truth's.
So old Golden Gloves MerryDeath sat on the side lines as hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent defending his flytrap.
Then like any loyal follower of God he jumped shipped soon after the court case was over.
Lord MerryDeath was then surrounded by some of the most conservative abusive men in the church. He was also surrounded by men who were abusers of women and children, who were also spiritual and mental abusers of the members.
So there is NOTHING about Lord MerryDeath and his cult that is Christian or that has ANYTHING worthwhile for humanity.
>>>It's funny how you ignore the FACT that your god Lord MerryDeath has dubious events surround the start of his splinter cult.<<<
I am not sure what you are talking about. However, I believe it was late in 1994 or early 1995, that I heard that Dr. Meredith had left WCG and set up Global; and as the bible admonishes God's children not to listen to those who depart from the faith, I ignored the news just as I had done when others had left WCG and started their own church.
I became associated with Global and subsequently Living through a series of events, which were carefully designed to expose the duplicity of a number of people. The key player in the intrigue are now dead.
It was a retired Texan, a former Vice president of a well known oil company, who suggested to Carl McNair that I be appointed host of a couple of video groups. When Carl McNair visited the UK in 1998, he asked me to serve as a board member of LCG and coordinate the 1999 FOT in Scotland, which I did.
But when Dr. Meredith accepted Richard Ames as a minister in LCG, I objected to it and wrote to him outlining my objections.
Some time later, to appease Carl, Dr. Meredith reinstated Raymond McNair, whom he had previously disfellowshipped and branded an enemy of the church. For me this was the final straw.
During my brief period with Global and LCG, people on the outside hinted to me rumours about Dr. Meredith's past behaviour, but they were never specific about what he had actually done.
And though you have also accused him of speaking out of turn, his remarks may have been foolish and hurtful to the parties concerned, but no one would described them as a mortal sin. Your speculation, that he waited until his legal fees were paid before jumping ship, cannot be proven.
However, I disagree with Dr.Meredith, but for very different reasons.
Richard: Please tell me you're joking. :-)
Would I dare to scoff about Gerald Flurry? God's Official End-Time Prophet?
The man who quoted from a Stratfor report in a rerun of The Key of David over the weekend, about Gazpram being likely to acquire the Yukos oil fields of Russie by the end of 2004 -- only Wikipedia shows a merger involving Gazpram collapsed in 2005, and never has happened?
The man who says without a doubt that Iran is The King of the South? Even though Iran is EAST of Jerusalem, not south of it?
The man who told the legal adjudicators that Mystery of the Ages is the core of what PCG is all about (or words to that effect) -- openly suggesting the Bible is not?
The book of Revelations is the most cheerful book in the bible for those entrenched in armstrongism. Sick people, just plain sick!
'The man who says without a doubt that Iran is The King of the South? Even though Iran is EAST of Palestine area, not south of it?'
Whether right or wrong (re Iran)Babylon (east of Palestine) invaded Tyre from the north. (Ezekiel 26:7)
Five days left! Anyone booked their eagle tickets yet?
There are at least three "thunders" that haven't been "so pronounced" as they were supposed to be, "before the seventh seal is opened":
-MerryDeath is still alive and kicking.
-The US has not recognized Weinland and wife as the two witlesses.
(I think this is the seventh thunder Weinland's pretty cagey on that one.)
-"The world" is not anywhere near rejecting trinitarianism whole cloth.
Also: "...and the world will be shocked and in horror when the seventh seal is opened." [pp. 23, 2008: God's Final Witness]
The world will be "shocked and in horror" on your birthday Gavin! Isn't that great? :-)
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