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Friday, 28 March 2008

DCM - a different COG ministry...


Here's a link to a COG ministry that breaks the mold.

No dire warnings about impending doom and gloom.

No nonsense about Anglos being Israelites.

No thinly veiled conservative political pontifications parading as insightful inside-track news commentary.

It may be that Wes White believes all or some of the above - don't know and don't particularly care. But Dynamic Christian Ministries - operated by Wes, wife Nancy and Jared Weese - substitutes puppet shows for ponderous preachments, so who can complain?

Wes is also the author of a Dan Brown-style novel, Clan of Lilith - obviously a long-time independent thinker.

Did I mention the blog?

It's nice to occasionally prove the "anti-COG" fulminations of Dr Thiel wrong by giving some positive coverage to intra-COG developments. Examples are admittedly few and far between, so it's a pleasure to acknowledge them when possible.

29 comments:

Tom Mahon said...

Extract from the web site thus:

>>>Dynamic Christian Ministries is not a church. It seeks no new members. It has no membership rolls.<<<

Well, it is a relief that it is not another man-made church! But what is it? From what I have gleaned from the site, it sees itself as an umbrella organisation with the skills and abilities to help man-made churches to live together in peace, or to resolve their inevitable differences before war breaks out.

Well, I believe that Wes and the team might be much more successful if they target the Palestinians and Israelites! For it is absolutely impossible for anyone to assist the churches in cog-land to live in peace. The petty tyrants in cog-land are too corrupt to respond to any dilution of the their perceived power base!

In addition, where die Wes and the team acquired their ability to be peace makers or masters in conflict resolution? Methinks, they are fooling themselves!

Perhaps it is too late for those in Big Sandy to call in Wes and the team. Wes might be good at banging heads together, but he might find it much more difficult to safely remove knives from the back!

>>>Dynamic Christian Ministries is recognized by the IRS as a 501c3 non-profit group, incorporated in the state of Texas.<<<

Herein lies the rub. This is another money making scam. The cogs will have to pay Wes and the team a consultancy fee for "trying" to resolve their differences. What a laugh!

Anonymous said...

It certainly is another man made church. They are all man made, that's the problem.

Anonymous said...

"It certainly is another man made church."

Aside from the never provable concept of "God made my church," what would one expect a church to be made up of?

Anonymous said...

Hey Tom, Gavin has posted an updated picture of himself. Any comments on his character, intentions, motives or personal self?

Do you have a pic Tom? Would you share it with us?

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

"In addition, where die Wes and the team acquired their ability to be peace makers or masters in conflict resolution?"

The reason that Tom has a problem with DCM is that it isn't sactioned by HWA. Period.


The Apostle Paul

Anonymous said...

The Bible speaks of an "accuser of the brethren."

The more I read the posts of Mr. Mahon, the more I begin to wonder about from where he chooses to draw his inspiration.

Aside from his tit-for-tat responses to those who find him irritating -- the Bible also speaks of what to do when confronted with that situation -- his original posts, such as the first one in this thread, are typically designed to critique and dismiss other churches and ministries (let alone all of us), most of whom come from the same tradition as he.

Those people and churches are, by definition, his brethren, but he accuses away, calling their churches "man-made" and their organizational leaders "petty tyrants.

This contributes little more than a "nyah-nyah-nyah" tone to the discussion.

No question others here do the same, but he frames his own context as being that of a true disciple of Jesus Christ (and one of few, at that).

Jesus rebuked when necessary, and chided his followers at times, but an accuser of them he was not.

Lussenheide said...

Wes is good folk. Glad to see him remarried and happy and still making a progressive impact on the COG scene. His first wife, Linda Hardy White died several years ago and I would rank her and Pam Dewey as probably the two most positive influential women ever in the COG movement.

As far as puppet shows go...The history of the COG ORGS has been nothing more than the most elaborate PUPPET SHOW that I have ever seen in my life! Someone always pulling the strings and getting somebody else to mouth the words that they put into them!

Irrelevant Side Note Department: "Fireball XL5" and "Thunderbirds" with the "Super Marionette" stuff from creator Gary Anderson was likely the all time high point for puppets. Topping even Sesame Street IMHO.

Bill Lussenheide, Menifee CA USA

Neotherm said...

If we were to look closely, I suppose that we would find that there is conservative Armstrongism, centrist Armstrongism and liberal Armstrongism. The problem is that it is all yet Armstrongism.

If we find a kinder and gentler Armstrongism, what really have we found? A heretical organization with a different social profile. Is this progress or just variation -- perhaps based on the personalities of the leaders involved?

To unite a bunch of warring Armstrongists under the banner of common heresy is an unfortunate objective. I am unable to look on this as a positive phenomenon, even if it were achievable, which it is not.

-- Neo

Weinland Watch said...

Is this the group that split from Dave Havir??

Unknown said...

I'll certainly be keeping an eye on the blog and this ministry of Wes' - the first post of the blog sure does ring true of classic Armstrongist teaching set ups.

I don't doubt he's good folk. He seems like very contemporary. He helps kids with puppet shows (a standard mainstream youth teaching approach by the way), his website is contemporary, his approach is unique to the COGs, and its probably one of the more intact youth ministries I've seen in a COG. Yet no matter how good or how unusual or how different and unique an approach is to a ministry, as long as it is under the veil of Armstrongism, it's still Armstrongism - thus warranting this group to be observed like so many others.

Thanks for bringing the awareness of this group to the forefront, Gavin.

Anonymous said...

'...If we find a kinder and gentler Armstrongism, what really have we found? A heretical organization with a different social profile. Is this progress or just variation -- perhaps based on the personalities of the leaders involved?...'

Surely it is possible to exit 'Armstrongism' and discard error while retaining teaching supported by the Scriptures.

'Soul sleep', 7th day Sabbath, giving, rejection of pre-Christian days and the trinity and legalism. Repentance and baptism. The return of Jesus (sometime). And - yes - BI and unclean foods. All are supported by NT Scripture. I learned these from wcg.

At the same time I can reject an oppressive ministry, autocratic rule, denominationalism, tithing, corruption, prophecy (some), distant leadership, 'headquarters'.

Whatever our personality it is incumbent on Christian leaders to be kind, gentle, protective of his flock and serving the brethren.

Tom Mahon said...

ripley said...

>>>The more I read the posts of Mr. Mahon, the more I begin to wonder about from where he chooses to draw his inspiration.<<<

No need to wonder, if you study the bible you might understand from where and whom I get my inspiration.

>>>Aside from his tit-for-tat responses to those who find him irritating -<<<

I won't describe it as "tit-for-tat." My detractors tend to abuse me, but I never respond in kind. I tend to expose their folly by poking fun at their illogical and misguided opinions. I apply the same divine methods of ridicule as the prophets and Jesus himself.

For instance, when Jesus explained to Nicodemus that one must be born again to enter the kingdom of God, Nicodemus asked, "How can these things be?" And Jesus stingingly replied, "Are you a master in Israel, and know not these things?" Which means, anyone who is a master or a teacher of God's people should know what the bible teaches.

Dennis, for example, was a master/teacher in Israel, yet he is completely ignorance of the doctrines of bible. I am not sure what role Douglas or Bill had in WCG, but they are also completely ignorant of the doctrines of the Israel of God. It is therefore fitting for me to emulate the prophets and, especially Jesus, in both laughing and ridiculing their ignorance.

>>>-- his original posts, such as the first one in this thread, are typically designed to critique and dismiss other churches and ministries (let alone all of us), most of whom come from the same tradition as he.<<<

We all attended WCG, but it is very evident that we all were not converted. Many here fall into the categories of either enduring for a while, and then falling away when affliction comes or in whom the care of this world have choked the word, and they have become unfruitful. That is why you don't understand the bible and see HWA as an enemy of the truth.

>>>Those people and churches are, by definition, his brethren,<<<

You are sadly mistaken! The deluded people in cog-land, who are listening to and following hirelings are not my brothers or sisters. As Jesus said, my brothers and sisters are they who do the will of God, not those who follow false ministers.

Anonymous said...

"I learned these from wcg."

That's right- something I have turned to again and again in the past few years. You must be "taught" most of the tenents of Armstrongism- Sabbath and Holy Day observance, tithing, unclean meats, BI, embracing the Law over the Spirit, ect, because you can't come to them from a rigorous, critical, individual study of the Bible. They aren't there, in the sense that they are to be observed by Christians.

If these doctrines were clear as glass in the Bible as the COG's make them out to be, then the majority of Bible readers in the past few hundred years would have come to these doctrines. Yet those who hold them are a minority. The COG's have appealed to the supernatural to explain this problem: God and/or the Devil has blinded the majority of Christendom down through the ages to this particular theology. It's a weak excuse at best.


The Apostle Paul

Tom Mahon said...

Anonymous said...

>>>Hey Tom, Gavin has posted an updated picture of himself. Any comments on his character, intentions, motives or personal self?<<<

Why would I comment on Gavin's character or motives? Gavin's views are clear for all to read.

>>>Do you have a pic Tom? Would you share it with us?<<<

I will post a picture of me if you post a picture of yourself, and attached your name to it. Is that fair enough for you?

DennisDiehl said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DennisDiehl said...

Tom said:

"I will post a picture of me if you post a picture of yourself, and attached your name to it. Is that fair enough for you?"

Actually I wrote that posting Tom, since sometimes Google gives me problems with the blogger name. So, yes it's fair to me. You already commented on my picture so post away. Just sent it to Gavin.

DennisDiehl said...

Tom's reasons for why he won't send a pic.

1. Well if you can't be honest like Jesus in your original posting, I am free of obligation

2. I've been tricked and trickery is of Satan. I obey the living God.

3. I'm afraid to.

4. I only obey the Trinity and they have not given me permission to reveal myself.

5. I only have reserved rendering ansunder to the marrow of the bone for such as thee Dennis.

6. My bowels of tender mercy are plugged up at the moment and mercy is not my strong suit anyway.

7. Behold, come out from among them my person, (that's me..Tom) and be me separate and partake not of their sins..so no you don't get a pic.

Anonymous said...

I prophesy that a pic of Tom will come. The time-cycles are almost just right for it.

And unlike herbie's dismal record of so many many false prophecies, this will make me a real prophet!

As Loma told me, the "Famine of the turd" is almost over!

Anonymous said...

Thus says the lord Tom Moron, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my picture shall not ever pass your way".

Anonymous said...

Glad to see Dennis Diehl remembers that seven (7) is the number of completion.

However, lets not confuse 7 with 3.

Three (3), of course, is the number of utter completion, i.e. three Ambassador College campuses; three World Wars (including the final great tribulation); 3 little pigs, etc.

Send your tithes and offerings to me and I will send you my new booklets, "You too can make up numbers just like Gerald Waterhouse", and "Just what do mean 'Final Training'?"

Get the point? Ooops, another Waterhouseism.

Richard

brave anonymous poster said...

wow....the guy simply asks people to stop and think, to consider the things they've always taken for granted, and HWA gets attacked.....go figure.

some people have such an aversion to God and His way, but since they can't see Him they have to attack something they can see, and that would be anyone preaching God's way to the world.

c'mon folks, HWA is dead. ...toss out the old photos and forget about him, there is nothing he can do for (or to) anyone.....was he perfect? nope, not even close, but who among us is?

Wesley White has some pretty good advice on his blog.....anyone willing to take it?

Anonymous said...

Oh, my Gavin!!! you are looking worse all the time. Is this what sin does to a person? Don't scare people who come to your website like that. Go back to your previous photo.

Neotherm said...

Anonymous said: "Surely it is possible to exit 'Armstrongism' and discard error while retaining teaching supported by the Scriptures."

Acually, it is not. Armstrongism is essentially defined by error. You have listed many of the errors that Armstrongists make. They are sufficient in number and significance to identify Armstrongism and a non-Christian religion. Armstongists would be the first to tell you that they do not align with Christian denominations.

While Armstrongism is a society it is also a religious philosophy, at odds with the Bible. The society can be modified if certain fundamental attributes can be ignored (such as legalism) but the underpinning erroneous religious philosphy assures that the modified version is still Armstrongism.

-- Neo

Anonymous said...

Mr. Mahon, your sticks-and-stones approach to Christianity speaks so loudly, I suspect no one can understand what you are saying.

Just be sure, when you pray, to thank the Lord that you are not like one of us publicans.

Anonymous said...

Gavin,

Your new mugshot reminds me of the Hon Trev Mallard,current Minister of Sport and onetime Minister of Education in NZ.

Keep up the good work.

Seamus

Richard said...

Never mind Gavin's picture -- did you notice the DCM web site home page includes a man holding a Bible, with his head cut off?

If this church lacks a head, it has big problems.

P.S. DCM reminds me of the Christian comedian, who told a man about his entertainment ministry. The man answered:
"Great! Where's your puppet?"

Anonymous said...

'...If these doctrines were clear as glass in the Bible as the COG's make them out to be, then the majority of Bible readers in the past few hundred years would have come to these doctrines. Yet those who hold them are a minority....'

I learned maths by being taught by someone who knew how - etc. I learned history from a teacher - but mostly from reading history. My Methodist background (by birth) taught me to keep Sunday.

When I understood from reading that there was an alternative to Sunday I searched the Scriptures and concluded that Sunday is not taught by the Bible - Old or New Testament. It isn't.

I do not see Sabbath as an imposition but a glorious reflection of my Saviour's care for mankind - all of us, even Paul!

Questeruk said...

You don’t have to be an ‘Armstrongist’ to read in the Bible about the Sabbath Day.

You don’t have to be an ‘Armstrongist’ to see that Christmas and Easter are not in the Bible.

You don’t have to be an ‘Armstrongist’ to read in the Bible about loving both God and neighbour.

You don’t have to be an ‘Armstrongist’ to read in the Bible that Jesus Christ will return.

You don’t have to be an ‘Armstrongist’ to read in the Bible about unclean foods (both OT and NT).

You don’t have to be an ‘Armstrongist’ to see that eternal torment in Hell is not in the Bible.


Need I go on????

Weinland Watch said...

You do have to be an Armstrongist to "hold fast" to all of those things however. Or a Messianic Jew.