Another interesting tidbit slightly adapted from Bill L in the comments section. Received info today that UCG treasurer Tom Kirkpatrick has tendered his resignation. Apparently this happened in December but has not yet been announced to UCG personnel. It allegedly happened when the Regional Pastors were in Cincy for a meeting where for some reason TK went ballistic with the RPs or some of them at least. Jim Franks is believed to have intervened and offered apologies. This, according to the report, further angered TK so he resigned. And his resignation was accepted. It officially takes effect end of fiscal year in June. So in the meantime TK still comes in to the office and does his work. So I would suppose that makes for an awkward, tense situation in the HO.
Perhaps a good opportunity to also move this item (same source) from the sidebar. It seems a letter has been sent to the elders in UCG regarding Aaron Dean. What sin according to UCG did Aaron commit? He spoke to an outside audience... other than one sanctioned by UCG officials. He is understood to be prohibited from speaking ANYWHERE for the next several months. And the report that I received is that some of the folks he spoke with are considering attending or have attended UCG because of his talk with them. Oh how typical!! When will they learn to stop shooting themselves in the foot???
Are these reports accurate? If so (and this is the point of repeating them here) they paint a highly dysfunctional portrait of life under the Kilough regime. (Wasn't Clyde promising to do a "Nehemiah" when he ascended to the presidency?) If not, let's hear about it. Comments, corrections and clarifications are welcome.
38 comments:
Same old, same old. TK can dig in his heels, to be sure. Wonder if the dispute was over finances, or doctrine, or administrative practices? Will be interesting to hear.
Meanwhile, Aaron Dean probably has more money than the UCG does, so whoop-de-do for them.
From A UCG member: "I checked with Mr. Dean and it is true. Don't use my name or e mail address if you say anything."
Found out from someone else that it is true about TK as well. His final date is March 31. Jason Lovelady has been voted by the council to take Tom's place. As to why Tom resigned only rumors I have heard and cannot confirm.
Mr. Lovelady's wife Wendy was just been promoted as Larry Saylor's executive secretary.
Mr. Lovelady has worked very hard at finding land in Texas for those few who would like to move the HO to Texas.
As for Clyde Kilough, his three year term will be up soon. Should be interesting to see if he gets re voted in considering the turmoil that has been caused under his time in office.
Those of us who no longer attend United watch these events with great interest as we have friends that are still attending.
My guess is that they will convince TK to resume his former role. It would be interesting to find out what the huff was about.
We have an accountant and low ranking minister challenging the big guys. This does not sound like something the TK I know would ever consider doing.
-- Neo
If he's the treasurer and he went ballistic, it stands to reason that the reason he went ballistic was over something to do with the way the regional pastors may have been (mis?)handling money?
Don't scoff. In '96 Rotten Ronnie Weinland caught them making away with $4.5 million bucks that no one speaks about to this day.......
that's an unproven allegation by a guy whose credibility and grasp on reality is questionable at best
Aaron evidently spoke at a non-UCG Feastsite.
My grasp on reality? You're the one hiding behind "anonymity". But let me guess...you're yet another young adult trapped in the CoG-PKG.
I keep telling people there are too many children in Weinland's church. There shouldn't be any.
TK has been very passionate about the Texas move and when questions about the move and how the numbers add up he may have gotten passionate in defending those numbers.
He is appreciated in UCG and just needs a change of scenery.
He also can get a fine job outside of UCG and get a new perspective on managing finances for organizations.
On second thought, you're a member of the UCG Gestapo, ain't you? Yeah that accounts for the vitriol. So sorry I didn't mean to malign the name of your particular one true church.
And if you think the $4.5 million bucks gone missing is an "allegation", so be it; it was one that Weinland made on his way out the door. Just because Rotten Ronnie is schizophrenic, doesn't mean he was wrong about that.
So tell us the truth then "anonymous" if you have the inside scoop, and dare to slap a userid on yourself: Why would the treasurer, who one assumes would be responsible for handling the church's finances and money, get upset with several regional pastors? Especially given that there is precedent for funny business with the funding.
I personally don't think Aaron Dean realizes what kind of a church it is that he belongs to:
The same week "Beyond Today" was endlessly re-running the "Hate Speech" segment, the first thing you encountered upon visiting the church's website was a copy of US&BC in Prophecy in glorious living Union Jack colour.
Talk about eating your cake and having it too.
"My grasp on reality?"
Calm down, breath into a bag
I was talking about Weinland's grasp. He's the one who made the intial allegations.
I'm not a part of anyone's Gestapo
Mr. Kirkpatrick may well be appreciated within UCG. But he's such an Armstrong apologist (spending a good bit of a 2006 Last Great Day sermon to do it, in fact) that if he leaves, I wouldn't be surprised to see him jump to LCG or RCG.
It is not surprising that Sue Johns was responsible for the original posting of the rumor that Dr. Kirkpatrick resigned because of an altercation at a Regional Pastor's meeting. As a rule of thumb, anything coming from her regarding United will be the absolute worst, awful, evil, worst-case scenario possible. The woman has nothing good to say about United and has no problem spreading unsubstantiated gossip around on the internet. Sue Johns is an uninformed, negative, busybody who will never have anything positive to say about UCG. Unless there is something evil supposedly ozzing out of the UCG Home Offce...she never has anything to say about UCG. Is her gossip, slander, and talebearing the examples of a godly woman?
Anonymous said...
Aaron evidently spoke at a non-UCG Feastsite.
Whenever the rare moment comes that I question myself about leaving Armstrongism, something inane like Aaron Dean getting in trouble for "speaking at a non-UCG Feast site" comes out, and I am quickly reminded how these fools want to rule ever inch of your life.
Been there, done that, glad I'm out!
They should be thankful Aaron left his wiretapping gear at home!
Aaron D 'spilled the beans' at a Global UK Tabernacles three or four years ago. Has that caught up with him?
The post concerning Sue must be from someone in United who is totally devoted to United. You can see the anger.
I see Sue as concerned about what is happening to the members. She has been there and done that. She and her husband has suffered greatly under the leadership in United. She has great concern for her friends who are still attending.
She simply posted the facts.
If you attack someone personally at least have the courage to post your name.
A friend directed me to your site after a report regarding a particular Church of God organization appeared. Almost like a moth is drawn to a flame, I return to your site and have been absolutely dismayed by the profuse comments, allegations, criticisms, innuendos and assertions I have read here. There have been all too few supportive facts, however. Obviously, the Church of God encounters many regular contributors to this site experienced did not satisfy their need to establish a meaningful relationship with God. For that, I am regretful, but as a result, it seems everything associated with Herbert W. Armstrong is treated with disparaging remarks. Every teaching with which there is disagreement is dismissed as “Armstrongism.” Yet HE did not exhort you to live as good neighbors, the Apostle Paul did. He didn’t tell you to pray for those who spitefully used you, Jesus did. Mr. Armstrong was not the originator of the command to abstain from leavened products during a particular season of the year, and yet one of your supporters deliberately ingests a “big fat donut” during this period. Might I ask who he thinks he is defying? And, pray tell, how do you reconcile many of these comments with Philippians 4:8? Your fellow human beings, if not your brothers-in-Christ, are regarded with contempt as you figuratively elbow each other in the ribs, referring to those with whom you choose to disagree with your own “clever” nicknames. Mr. Tom Mahan seems to be a lightning rod for many of your concerns. Recently, one of your posters stated he did not believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. By accepted definition then, my only conclusion is that this individual only accepts what is contained in the Bible as simply figurative or fictional. But because Mr. Mahon honestly believes in a different interpretation of the Scriptures, he is subjected to ceaseless attacks from various quarters. (Note Romans 1:22, another non-Armstrong quote.) And now, following the posting of a couple of reports regarding the United Church of God, you welcome comments corrections and clarifications! As the adage states, it’s too late to lock the barn doors. These two reports are replete with words such as (alphabetically listed) according to, allegedly, apparently, for some reason, he is understood, is believed, and it seems. (Tip of the hat to Steve, however, for his accurate report.) The facts of the matter ought to have been ascertained beforehand. But, please forgive me—I forget truth is only what an individual chooses to believe. Many of your posters do not believe in God, nor do they believe what He says. With what you’re saying and doing, as the punch line to the old joke says, “You had better hope to God you’re right!”
Posted the facts?
Until she has written proof that some altercation happened in Cincinnati and caused the resignation...what she posted is mere unsubstanciated gossip. We all hear rumors all the time, and in my experience, when I hear a rumor like that it almost always turns out to be either completely false or only containing a small element of truth to it. Unless you are a gossip blogger, mature people do not hear a rumor and immediately run to Yahoo Forums so they can post it as THE explanation for the world to see. What Sue Johns did was gossip. It was wrong. Until she directly confirms that with Dr. Kirkpatrick himself and Dr. Kirkpatrick confirms, "yes I flew of the handle and yes thats why I resigned" then she has no right posting it on the internet.
And how does posting this show any concern about the members? How does the resignation of a treasurer who works at the corporate headquarters effect any laymember? It doesn't. How does Dr. Kirkpatrick resigning hurt any members? If what she posted is true, how does that effect any members? I do not see her post being done out of concern for the members of United. I see it as being done out of an inner hatred for the administration of United. Go through the Likeminds forum and you'll see that the only time she ever has anything to say about UCG is when there is something from the administration to attack.
I believe her hatred of United is a result of her congregational philosophy being rejected in United. That is not abuse, it is a difference of philosophy of how United should be run. I believe the majority of current United members prefer congregations being "pastor-run" instead of "board-run." Many of us members tried for years to fight and defeat congregationalism in United. Thankfully, despite a few areas still having them, we have succeeded in destroying local boards and congregationalism in United.
Unfortunately she is still bitter about it. We are not. We respect her right to leave and be in a group that practices the form of government and evangelism that she believes in. That is great and I have no need/right to snoop into her groups business and attack them. I have always wondered why the people who have left United do not practice the same philosophy? They leave and constantly monitor United to find anything to attack online. Why don't people like Sue Johns just focus on serving in their group and evangelizing and respect UCG's right to do what it feels is right?
PS I think Sue Johns friends in United are intelligent enough to make their own decisions and don't need her pointing out stuff on an internet forum that is predominently independant and that most United members don't even see.
I wonder why a letter was sent out from HO to all elders concerning Aaron Dean and the actions taken against him? Should this not have been a private matter?
Why wait now to publicly expose this situation when it happened awhile back. Could it be political since the GCE will be coming up soon?
I think this action will backfire on them as Aaron is widely respected in UCG.
I have heard favorable reporting about Aaron Dean from a local UCG congregation where I attend. I have personally read one, if not more, of his articles that he has written, and it was one of the best that I have ever read. I don't understand why he would need corrective measures, at least at this point.
To correct the Anonomous poster above, UCG never wrote a public letter about Aaron Dean. The facts are that UCG intended to keep this a private matter and only wrote a letter to the elders letting them know of the decision.
The information was revealed thorugh (none other than) Sue Johns on the Yahoo Likeminds forum.
Here is her original post revealing it:
"It seems a letter has been sent to the elders in UCG...regarding Aaron Dean. What sin according to UCG did Aaron commit? He spoke to an outside audience...other than one sanctioned by UCG officials. He is prohibited from speaking ANYWHERE for the next several months. And the report that I received is that some of the folks he spoke with are considering attending or have attended UCG because of his talk with
them. Oh how typical!! When will they learn to stop shooting
themselves in the foot???
Sue"
Once again, the source of gossip and negativity is Sue Johns. Once again it is filled with her uncomfirmed speculation and negative commentary. UCG tried to keep this a private matter. She has admited she has a source among the UCG eldership who leaks her the correspondence that is supposed to be private among the eldership. She then takes it upon herself to post it on the internet and transform it from a private matter to a public matter.
Pro 11:13: "A talebearer reveals secrets, But he who is of a faithful spirit conceals a matter."
Tit 2:3: "the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things."
1Ti 5:13 "And besides they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house, and not only idle but also gossips and busybodies, saying things which they ought not."
The letter was sent out before the post from Sue concerning Aaron Dean.
Need to check your facts. Or better yet check dates of when she posted and when the letter was sent out. See which one came out first.
Does anyone have the dates to verify this?
Yikes. I think this whole thread (my apologies to anonymous---I think you can gather what I've been dealing with from Weinland's crew) proves, more than anything, is that United really is not the shiny happy fuzzy WCG they want us to think it is.
Aaron Dean learned the long hard way about the power of the wicked people who got into high positions back in the WCG.
I'm sure he understands that if he does not shut up and do as he is told, he will quickly find out about the power of the wicked people who got into high positions in the UCG.
"It is not surprising that Sue Johns was responsible for the original posting of the rumor that Dr. Kirkpatrick resigned because of an altercation at a Regional Pastor's meeting. As a rule of thumb, anything coming from her regarding United will be the absolute worst, awful, evil, worst-case scenario possible."
I was surprised to see someone step up and tell the truth about Madame Johns. She is without a doubt the most vengeful and difficult person. Victor Kubik once remarked that he would never want to be her enemy. She has a knack for destroying goodwill among people, spreading lies, and cultivating a culture of hatred.
So in other words---she's PERFECT!
Chazhoy,
"Obviously, the Church of God encounters many regular contributors to this site experienced did not satisfy their need to establish a meaningful relationship with God...Every teaching with which there is disagreement is dismissed as “Armstrongism.” Yet HE did not exhort you to live as good neighbors, the Apostle Paul did. He didn’t tell you to pray for those who spitefully used you, Jesus did."
A few words from someone who grew up in what is referred to as "Armstrongism." I didn't hear too much about Jesus and less about Paul. Jesus (but please call Him Christ) was trotted out for the Passover season and pretty much ignored for the rest of the year. Paul, um, yeah, he travelled a bit and said complicated things that sound like we are free from the law but not really.
As far as being good neighbors, I remember hearing how we shouldn't be involved in outside charitable activities because "the poor will always be with you" and those people will get their chance in the 2nd resurrection so we just need to worry about ourselves for now. Kind of seems diametrically opposed to the lesson of the parable of the Good Samaritan.
I grew up with a view of God that He was just waiting to smack you down with a trial should you deviate from the law keeping and/or what the minister said. Sure I worked on a relationship with God, I tried, but obedience was stressed in WCG (and the splinters I was associated with), not relationship. Obedience out of fear is not a relationship. I knew it should be out of love, but never felt that God was happy with enough with me to really be involved with me. He might throw me a few crumbs, but I was less than the little dogs....
Speaking from my personal experience, I have since learned that HWA sourced things from a lot of sources. Check out Mormonism, Ellen G White's visions and Adventism. Not specially revealed truth.
I don't adhere to Armstongism anymore. I have a better and growing relationship with God. I have a greater desire to know what Jesus and Paul really said and live accordingly. If you have a good strong, healthy relationship with God then I am glad for you.
Since you pointed us to Jesus and Paul in your comments, I felt compelled to respond. You're right, we should look to the Bible. Unfortunately, many of us looked at the Bible in the way we were told to by HWA and his ministers and were worse off spiritually because of it. This site and the comments made are simply how people have dealt with that experience, for better or worse.
It's funny the only hateful vitriol I find on this blog is coming from "Anonymous". I don't recall even hearing of Sue Johns before this post and heard from an elder myself about the sanction against Aaron Dean. I would hate to see what would happen if "Cain" met Sue Johns in a lonely field.
I have attended UCG from its inception but have always considered myself a member of the "Church of God". I was never a congregationalist but felt that boards with limited authority were a good idea. I have never seen the anti-board faction express their true feelings so nakedly. Thanks Anonymous for reminding me that I was right about that controversy. Some of us have not been so easy to chase from UCG.
I will also say that 80% or more of the "rumors" I have heard while in the church, turn out to be substantially true. I heard rumors about Stan Rader in 78 that turned out to be mostly true and HWA substantiated it himself publicly three years later. I heard rumors that Joe Tkach senior was angling towards doing away with the Sabbath and less than a year later it was substantiated. If Tom Kirkpatrick isn't resigning we'll know soon enough. But if he does I wonder if we'll get an apology from Anonymous. I doubt it.
While not in agreement with a large numbers of viewers of this blog, I respect their right to sort through their feelings about how they have been manipulated by certain people and how their faith has been destroyed by people professing to be children of light.
I welcome the truth in whatever form it comes to me and if it threatens an institution I have invested my life in so be it. Only the truth can make us free.
Maybe Anonymous should pray for Sue Johns, if he truly beliefs she is so wrong, rather than attack her here. Maybe he should practice what he preaches.
My apologies to the other Anonymous posters who often said things I agree with or at least understand how they can see it the way they do. Especially the post at 3:18 on 3/27.
My experience has been that when the anti-rumor mongers are out on patrol, there are serious problems in the organization. My impression was that maybe the flap over the Home Office move was going to settle down. I myself have heard very view "rumors", but now I am beginning to believe things are far worse than they appear. I can't imagine how it will all play out, but usually there is a split of some kind. I guess that is a "rumor" too, but just sounds like speculation to me.
March 18, 2008
Dear Employees and Fellow Elders,
We hope this letter finds you, your families and congregations prospering spiritually as we head rapidly toward the very special time of the Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread.
We are writing at this time to announce a change in the position of treasurer and financial operation manager for the United Church of God.
In November of 2007, Tom Kirkpatrick notified the Council of Elders that he planned to resign from those positions, and we set about to find a replacement. Dr. Kirkpatrick wrote in his message to the Council:
“It has been an honor and privilege serving as treasurer and financial operation manager for UCGIA for (nearly) the last 10 years. I hope on balance that my contribution has been positive.”
We are sure that most of us understand very well the tremendous contribution Dr. Kirkpatrick has made to the Church, beginning immediately when he came into that office in a very difficult time in 1998. He has been known and respected for his conservative management and for fiscally steering the Church to a point where we enjoy such a positive financial position today. We are truly grateful for his service over the years in that very important capacity.
At its latest meeting in San Antonio, the Council of Elders unanimously approved Jason Lovelady to assume the position of treasurer and financial operation manager. Mr. Lovelady has been employed by the United Church of God since January 2005 along with his wife, Wendy, and brings to the table 17 years of accounting and financial management experience.
He has a wide range of industry experience working for companies in the retail, manufacturing and service sectors. Over the past 17 years, he has gained professional experience in such areas as consolidations, financial statements, international accounting, budgeting, audit coordination and cash management. In addition, he has considerable experience in strategic planning, systems design and development, and project management. He has also worked closely with both information systems and human resources departments and at different points in his career has managed both areas.
After graduating from Ambassador College, Mr. Lovelady worked from 1991 to 1995 for the Worldwide Church of God in the Caribbean Regional Office. During that time he became the accounting manager for the Caribbean Region, and was responsible for all the accounting functions within the region.
His subsequent job experiences are highlighted by a position as the retail accounting manager for Bass Pro Shops and a position as a plant controller at Menasha Packaging Corporation. This eventually led him to a post with Calsonic Kansei of North America, a tier-one auto supplier. His accounting work there included preparing consolidated financial statements and management reports for Calsonic Kansei’s 10 North American companies with $1.5 billion in annual sales, coordinating and assisting external auditors and tax preparers with annual audit and semiannual reviews, and overseeing multi-state and multi-company payrolls for over 2,000 employees. In addition, he was a member of Calsonic Kansei’s global SAP project team as FI/CO project manager for North America.
Mr. Lovelady is well-qualified to step into this role in United, which will become effective on March 31, 2008. We welcome him to his new post, and offer our deepest gratitude to Dr. Kirkpatrick for his years of service. Dr. Kirkpatrick plans to remain in Cincinnati for the next few months to help with the transition of responsibilities to Mr. Lovelady. During that time we will also be discussing various options with him for his future service to the United Church of God.
Sincerely,
Robert Dick, Chairman Clyde Kilough, President
Oh, JT ... err, I mean, "anonymous"... quit whining about Sue Johns. If it weren't for her UCG would be building their headquarters on a pile of toxic waste by now. You should be grateful to her! (But we all know you're upset because your job won't be moving to Texas with the rest.)
Oh, JT ... err, I mean, "anonymous"... quit whining about Sue Johns. If it weren't for her UCG would be building their headquarters on a pile of toxic waste by now. You should be grateful to her! (But we all know you're upset because your job won't be moving to Texas with the rest.)
The above post makes no sense! If this person is upset with losing their job why would they attack Sue Johns for exposing this? Plus how does this poster know who will loose their jobs or not? Do they have the inside scoop? Interesting!
I think it is a very sad thing when someone does attack someone like Sue Johns and do not have the courage to sign their name. At lease she stand by what she says with her name.
Just want to clarify some of the erroneous notions posted recently about my interest in UCG. Anonymous has demonstrated admirably one reason I left UCG. The ugly, nasty attitudes that we were having to deal with locally here.
Anonymous stated that I somehow revealed my source as an elder. WRONG...it was a nonemployed (by UCG) MEMBER...not elder who told me about TK and AD. Also, once again I was asked to get this info out....by several UCG members. I do not follow UCG matters....my source called me, and that was the first I even knew about either of these things.
Anonymous demonstrated what we experienced in our local UCG congregation. If you present facts and those facts disagree with their picture perfect rosey idea of UCG..then they launch into one of these diatribes.
I am not bitter over the dismantling of our UCG congregations advisory council (we never did have a board). I just rarely even think about it anymore. Actually I think they did us such a HUGE favor..enabling us to finally leave. We have such a loving peaceful congregation now. But I was recently told when someone visited the local UCG congreation they were greeted by a diatribe about our congregation and who speaks there. I guarantee you won't hear that kind of stuff in our congregation.
I seems obvious to me that Anonymous is a very angry person. And too bad they don't have the courage to sign their name.
With Passover approaching, I will pray for anonymous, that they can move beyond their obvious hatred for me and their inability to speak to me directly about it, but to feel the need to name call, and imput untrue motives and how I currently feel about things.
I just don't have the time to worry too much about UCG...as a matter of fact, I didn't even know about these anonymous posts until about an hour ago, when a UCG member emailed me and told me about them. She was much more upset about these posts than I am. I just know this is what can be expected from some folks. Personally, with 7 granddchildren, a full time job, and a full active life, I could not care less about UCG or anonymous.
Sue Johns
I say good for Sue!
I say this whole conversation proves, more than anything else, that UCG really is not the shiny happy fluffy WCG it likes to pretend it is. Reading the vitriol against Sue Johns I felt like I was right back in my old congregation ca. 1985!
"I was surprised to see someone step up and tell the truth about Madame Johns. She is without a doubt the most vengeful and difficult person. Victor Kubik once remarked that he would never want to be her enemy. She has a knack for destroying goodwill among people, spreading lies, and cultivating a culture of hatred."
Wow...I wonder if I have even ever met the person who wrote this. And if they are going to quote Victor they should get the quote right and give the context. The context was when we were dealing with a most abusive pastor...in Victor's words the most abusive case he had ever seen. Vic and Bev had been sent in to intervene. This pastor had done and said really horrid things to many people. I won't go into detail here...but I have to wonder if anonymous would also agree with this pastor's inability to have any empathy or sympathy for the people he pastored. It was in this context...and yes, I was quite upset about what this pastor had done...and not to me, but to others. But the pastor himself involved Jim and I in one of his visits with a member that was absolutly horrible. It was a terrible abuse of power. All that I ever presented were the facts about what this pastor had done. And when we had our "confrontation" meeting with this pastor...he ADMITTED he had done every single thing, because we had the facts to back it all up. He admitted this in front of the whole group including Vic and Bev. I spoke honestly, frankly, but not with hatred. It was in this context, that later Vic made the comment IN MY PRESENCE, that he was glad I was a GOOD FRIEND (to him and Bev) because he wouldn't want me for an enemy. He was laughing when he said it. He was referring to how frankly I spoke about the situation. But he also told me we had done the right thing. Why doesn't anonymous tell the whole story? Seems that anonymous wants to spin the truth a bit here and make it sound like something entirely different. But then again, that was my experience with UCG...lots of smoke and mirrors to cover up the truth about abuses of power and people.
I can see why anonymous doesn't want to sign their name. Hopefully, some day they can muster the courage to write without spinning and also sign their name.
I have to wonder if anonymous could be the same person or know the person, who felt the need to send us a UCG sermon tape entitled "Examine Yourself". We actually had 2 copies sent to us, one we are sure the pastor told the person to send, the other the person took it upon themself. You can tell by the title what it was about. Now my comment when we received it was...wow, when I hear a sermon like that, I think I should examine myself. But apparently those who sent it...were thinking of others and NOT themselves.
It is folks like anonymous who enable the abusers in the COGs. So they are party to it. And these folks will also rewrite history, spin the truth (when they know full well what the truth is), and quote things out of context for their own purposes.
Like I said I rarely even think about UCG and past experiences, but once in awhile it does pop up like when we get a call from someone in UCG who we haven't heard from for awhile, with accurate info about another abuse of power...ie the case of Aaron Dean. Now several on here have mentioned that they have confirmed this with Aaron. But anonymous seems to have missed that point. Seems that it is more important to attack the messenger than to deal with abuse of power. This abuse of power is perpetuated because people like anonymous don't want it revealed. They want it to stay hidden. BTW, anonymous, you have twisted scripture when you use Proverbs 11:13 to try to get someone to hide abuses of power.
People who truly know me would not describe me as above...this: "destroying goodwill among people, spreading lies, and cultivating a culture of hatred." is what I am trying to show there should be an end to in the COGs.
Like I said you won't run into such diatribes in our current congregation, but we often did back in the local UCG congregation. And as I mentioned just recently, someone who visited the local UCG (also a UCG member from another area) was greeted with a very nasty diatribe about our congregation and some who speak there. And this was not the first time this has happened.
One of the first things we did in our congregation was to have a study on the gifts of the Spirit. And how each person can use them. And we try to empower each person to use theirs. We feel this is scriptural. And our congregation is very happy and healthy and we often have visitors, including numerous from UCG. I do not see a pastor-run congregation as being the Biblical model. Especially when that means that the pastor's squelches everyone elses gifts and initiative. This is what I have spoken since before I joined UCG in 1995. I have not changed my message in this regard. If building people up and empowering them and encouraging them to participate in the life of the congregation is what I do that destroys good will among people then I plead guilty. And if it makes me the UCG dreaded C word so be it.
I will continue to pray for anonymous and all like them, that they can come to see that they should not promote and stand behind abuse of power and people.
Sue Johns
People go to the COGs hoping to be told the truth. But they don't get told the truth. What typically happens is that the nasty "rumours" that they are told to ignore turn out to be the plain truth, while the "plain truth" that they were told from head(home)quarters turns out to be deliberate misinformation. It is not surprising that people who want to know the truth have to look elsewhere for it.
I have just past my 74th birthday and I am just in UCG now three years. I happened to this site by mistake looking for some of God's word. Well you people sound like the Baptist, Methodist, etc. Certainly not a Church Jesus would be proud to claim. Maybe I have made a big mistake.
Don
INDEED! Your mistake is being in UCG!
Post a Comment