It's been awhile since AW last looked at how the Internet was being used by COG sects and ministries. The following "top ten" list is based on Alexa rankings earlier this week.
1. Ronnie Weinland's the-end.com. Depressing! This guy's temporary "success" is like rat poison for the less screwy COGs. Ranked in the 108k band. If that sounds low, consider that the Southern Baptist official website only manages 283k!
2. I think I'm getting a headache. In at 119k is the Pack cult (thercg.org)
3. Okay, so there aren't too many GN fans here, but in this company the GN is positively balanced and rational: 127k.
4. In at 138k, it's Joe & Co: wcg.org
5. Grab a barf bag. Pack takes out no. 5 with his realtruth website. 141k.
6. The numerically biggest COG group - ucg.org manages to rank in the 160k band
7. A round of applause for amateur night: biblestudy.org (222k)
8. Gerry Flurry's trumpet toots in at 248k, just inside the top quarter million.
9. Hulme's vision.org - 252k.
10. Spanky and the team in Charlotte bring up the caboose at 342k with tomorrowsworld, slightly ahead of UCG's beyondtoday (358k) but well behind those Southern Baptists!
Of course, Alexa's rankings are based on a sample... and the lower they go the more subject to error. But for the top ten above the indicators are probably right on the money. You can check out your favorite/least favorite site's current status for yourself here.
67 comments:
One wonders just how closely the site rankings correspond to actual membership in the CoGs. Probably not very, since LCG gets hits from Spanky's mug being so prevalent on the religious stations with The World Tomorrow oh I mean Tomorrow's World.
CoG-PKG being at the bottom of the list is heartening, though.
Gavin said:
>>>You can check out your favorite/least favorite site's current status for yourself here.<<<
According to Sir Winston Churchill, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. But the question we need to ask and answer is, what conclusions should we draw from these figures?
Some cogs tend to conclude that because their sites get multiply hits, is is a sign of their righteousness and God's blessings. But in reality, most people are so unhappy and uncertain of the future, they are prepared to listen to anyone, however misguided, who appears to offer some semblance of hope.
Of course this unhappiness and uncertainty don't apply to anyone here, except me! For instance, since leaving WCG Richard has become so happy and certain of his future, that he can't resist sharing it with us via his erudite essays.
Paul, of course, wants us all know how happy he is being an atheist, and would like us to share his future by debunking the Scriptures.
Douglas is not only happy, he has even found perfect peace, by being able to reduce the cause of every problem to incompetence, dysfunction or both.
And Dennis! What can we say? He is simply experiencing a degree of happiness, that transcends our limited comprehension.
I shall now visit my favourite web site, to see if I can find reasons to repudiate my faith and attack HWA, so that I also may be happy.
Don't you just love being happy?-:)
Tom Mahon said...
Don't you just love being happy?-:)
You have noooo idea how much. You will though, if you ever get over your mental illness of defending a dead charlatan. In the meanwhile, just stay on your knees and send in those tithes. While you're at it, send in your savings too, you want be needing that, because Jesus is coming "soon".
I like to use quantcast.com to analyze sites.
Not only does it give you a ranking rating for a site, (including many low ranking sites), but if you click a couple of times on the profile link, it will tell you all the demographics about that site too.
For instance, income, gender, education level, loyalty of visitor to the site etc. It will also list what other sites the visitors have an allegiance to and at what preference level.
COG sites generally score as skewed to MALE, POOR, UNDEREDUCATED, WHITE, OVER 55 YEARS OLD, as compared to the average universe of users. It compares favorably to Conservative News Talk radio, also known as "Angry White Man Radio",.
Most religious sites other than COG are similar in results except that they will skew more towards women.
The only exceptions I find are more of the mega church type folks,or Calvary Chapel. They will score more averaged aged, average income and education, and balanced gender.
Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA
Sorry, I meant "won't".
There is this guy named Tom
Whose comments tend to Bomb
He knows no sin
It's all about him
He's superior and must be dom.
Annoying as hell his mind doth oft swell
And makes us all glad we aren't he
For Jesus he Knows, all others dispose
He makes me just glad to be me.
For others have told me
That Tom loves to scold thee
And act more righteous than most.
But he's just a guy,
No more special than I
Who blusters in every post.
When Jesus comes, and gives us the thumb
Will it be up or down for Mahon?
He's rancorous, mean, self righteous, not clean
He'll have to life in his Kingdom alone.
Monday evening, I was watching TBN TV, catching a little inspiration as I worked on my taxes and went through my weight training routine.
One of the guests on a Christian talk show was a well known minister from Florida. He shared that a pastor has very little influence in producing growth in a church congregation. Most of his new members come from his congregation sharing at work and amongst friends some of the exciting and positive things that are going on at church, i.e. how Jesus has changed their lives. Their enthusiasm makes people want to come in and see what it is all about. I believe that in professional church terminology this is referred to as "personal evangelism". It's grass roots, and apparently is very effective.
Web sites are all well and good, but would be of best value if they were interactive with the personal evangelism of the congregation. But, as we all know, this is impossible in an ACOG setting, because everything is about ministerial control. Attendance of an ACOG is guarded about as intensely as entry into some of the "patriot" militias active in the underground throughout the U.S. If, perchance, anyone walked into one of the smelly rented beerhalls in which ACOG sabbath services were being held, that individual would be scrutinized, given the third degree, and probably told that he was unwelcome because he'd walked into a private meeting. No matter that the poor individual might be at an all time personal low, and searching for help or answers.
Also, if personalized evangelism were even allowed, what positives, or joy could an ACOG member share? If writers invented churches, the Armstrong movement would have been dreamed up for a novel by Kafka! Who wants to hear about a perpetually delayed apocalypse, ministerial intrusion and domination, and obsessive compulsive legal fetish? There is no joy involved, just a sad anticipation of the return of the Messiah, and when He comes, boy is He ever going to kick a$$!
I submit that all of the ACOG websites, though arousing curiosity, are quaint little oddities which will remain totally ineffective in any lasting sense, because their sponsors have no idea how to use them! Probably most of the hits on these sites are from incredulous ex-Armstrongites who can't believe that all of the HWAcaca is still going on!
BB
BB
Tom wrote:
"According to Sir Winston Churchill, there are lies, damn lies and statistics."
I had always thought that this originated with Mark Twain. I just did a bit of checking, and while Twain popularized the phrase, especially in the U.S., he attributed it to Benjamin Disraeli. But even that is uncertain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies%2C_damned_lies%2C_and_statistics
Living quite happily on the non-LCG side of Charlotte...
Camfinch
Corky said: "In the meanwhile, just stay on your knees and send in those tithes. While you're at it, send in your savings too, you want be needing that, because Jesus is coming "soon"."
I wonder where Tom does send his tithes since he claims to not belong to any of the churches currently out there and with Herbie dead, you won't see him sending in his money to Tkatch.
I'm certainly curious Tom...are you willing to answer that question for your 1st and 3rd tithes?
--> Charlie Kieran: Living quite happily too!
Well, at least Ron Weinland is well behind the truly important websites. Weighing in at only 12k: Homestar Runner! Woohoo!
Libro
Charlie said...
>>>I'm certainly curious Tom...are you willing to answer that question for your 1st and 3rd tithes?<<<
I don't pay tithes or give offerings to any church, period! For God has warned me not to allow hirelings to make merchandise of me. Plus one must not give that which is holy to dogs! In addition, Jesus started one church, which is now scattered without an organised structure, so there is no one to pay tithes to.
We are now in the period described as, "the famine of the word." The preachers in cog-land are no different from Billy Graham, Pat Robinson or whoever else is out there giving Christianity a bad name.
BTW, Corky, I am sorry I have not included you among the happy people, who have repudiated their faith, and who now derive a special delight in attacking HWA.
I also wish to apologise for omitting to mention Bill, as he is 6'2" and fully trained in the martial art Karate. The poise; the humble deportment; the meditative techniques and the self control that Karate confers upon its disciples, do not only lead to peace, but to positive serenity.
Don't you just love being tranquil?
"I don't pay tithes or give offerings to any church, period!"
Then you are breaking The Law. Period. The Lake of Fire awaits the lawless.
The Apostle Paul
Tom said:
"We are now in the period described as, "the famine of the word."
If you ever stop posting Tom, we will be in "a famine of the turd."
Yes.. Tom Mahon is guilty of stealing from God!! He is disobediently breaking the commands of his deity. He just picks and chooses what he wants to believe and obey, condemning all who don't agree with his every personal interpretation of scripture.
Look at just a few verses he willfully chooses to ignore:
Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
The Apostle Thomas
The doubting Apostle!
Byker Bob wrote about the lack of "personal evangelism" historically in the COG.
Yet, interestingly enough, in spite of it not being encouraged, and having lack of facilities, and a really negative world view,...upwards to half of all new folks in the WCG could trace their initial contact back to an individulal, NOT the radio or tv program initially.
I honestly believe that one of the reasons that the ORG COGs do not encourage personal evangelism is that they are afraid that once people realize that you dont need to have a multi million dollar a year media empire in order to spread the gospel, that people will have second doubts about sending in 10% plus offerings to do "the work".
Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA
I haven't seen any mug shots of that self righteous Tom Moron floating around on the internet yet.
Anybody seen his picture yet?
My guess is that Tom displays a mop of untidy black hair, a slight resemblance of Adolph Hitler and a smirk which says, "I am only here because I am better than all of you - and I don't even tithe anymore because I can pick and choose which HWA commandments I will obey."
Will Tom Moron rob his God, HWA?
Richard
Tom wrote...
I don't pay tithes or give offerings to any church, period!
Do you give money to feed the poor?
What act do you do to please Jesus?
Tom Mahon said: "I don't pay tithes or give offerings to any church, period! For God has warned me not to allow hirelings to make merchandise of me. Plus one must not give that which is holy to dogs! In addition, Jesus started one church, which is now scattered without an organised structure, so there is no one to pay tithes to."
Tom - This is actually good news to hear from you! This should be considered the beginning of wisdom for you. Just as you are rightly not allowing hirelings to make merchandise of you, perhaps soon you will not allow them to control your thought process and by denying them that, you will free you mind and soul.
Bravo, Tom!
--> Charlie Kieran
Charlie, don't get your hopes up. If HWA crawled out of his grave Tom would gladly fork over those tithes. It's a credibility issue, you see. The splinters don't have any compared to HWA in the eyes of Tom. And that's pretty disturbing. At least Meredith didn't screw his own daughter.
Paul
I had the same thought as Charlie.
Bill, my problem with quantcast.com is, well, how do I put this nicely... its assumption that only US statistics count. Fair enough I suppose if it's geared to servicing the US domestic advertising market... but hey, I'm a proud non-American! The graphics are interesting and the demographics, if accurate, are revealing, but the "rest of the world" doesn't figure as far as I can tell. Obviously the service is owned by Republicans ;-)
Jesus gave parables about separating the sheep from the goats.
Most people in the CoGs are in the sheep category. In fact, an examination of the Old Testament shows that when the people had a decent leader, they responded generously and rejoiced; bad leaders, not so much. During the rare times that the priests and leaders found the Scrolls and worship was renewed, the people always seemed to respond. Otherwise, it was the leaders who brought trouble and rejected God.
The Pharisees of Jesus' time were the religious psychopaths of their day. Everything was about them and their position. They played games without conscience. They put burdens on the people. When Jesus came along, he exposed them for the hypocrites they were.
Today, we have religious psychopaths. Many of them are leaders of the CoGs. Often, they are pure evil. They aren't just hirelings. Would God that they were that good.
It certainly is not a matter of being incompetent, confused or dysfunctional. There are those "goats" out there who know exactly what they are doing. They practice deception. They lie. They cheat. They steal. They rob God. They blaspheme. They commit idolatry. They do so knowingly and deliberately, understanding full well what they are doing, violating Scripture.
Some of them play games because they do not actually believe in God, unless it is themselves. Nevertheless, whether they believe in God or not, they are unadulterated hypocrites, spouting nonsense to captivate the gullible. It's not about facts, or God, or Jesus... it's all about the numbers. The one who can convince others that they are the truest to Herbert Armstrong MUST be the one to whom the mantle has been dropped. Too bad the mantle is nothing but filthy rags.
We could have accepted that Herbert Armstrong made an honest mistake by declaring that the United States and Britain would lose World War II [which, pretty much everyone lost in that war, but the U.S. lost less than most]. He never apologized. He just kept going. But then he did it again with 1975. He said he never set dates, but it was documented very well that he did. He signed his false prophecies as a false prophet "in Jesus' Name" brazenly declaring that he did not care about the consequences of his lies and deceptions. Then he lied and covered up, claiming that he hadn't done any of the things which are thoroughly documented that he did. There was absolutely not accountability with the man.
It is surprising to get some of the ministers in a quiet place and talk to them about failed prophecies. "I guess we aren't very good at making predictions," they say [an actual quote].
And now the truth comes out. Tom Mahon has never even obeyed that evil great dead false prophet and has no intention of doing so. He's neither incompetent or dysfunctional. He even ever so often even impeaches Herbert Armstrong. There's absolutely no accountability with the man.
He's just plain evil.
And no one but Satan and the demons should be happy about that... if they exist, which, observing the evil behavior of Tom Mahon certainly suggests that they do, or, maybe, he's just out there on his own: He seems to make everything up as he goes along, as do all religious psychopaths. There's certainly nothing worthwhile to draw upon, particularly when a person is utterly provably wrong 95% of the time.
But those of us who have known the truth from the beginning have peace, having separated ourselves from those with noisy brains filled with evil imaginations and do not bother to compare ourselves among ourselves -- a most unwise and useless activity for the simple and erroneous filled with rubbish.
Website Rankings Per Month
Source: Quantcast Audience Search
http://www.quantcast.com/
Restored Church of God
www.thercg.org
US Reach: 151,441
Good News Magazine (UCG)
www.gnmagazine.org
US Reach: 146,285
United Church of God
www.ucg.org
US Reach: 132,935
Real Truth
www.realtruth.org
US Reach: 78,799
Tomorrows World (LCG)
www.tomorrowsworld.org
US Reach: 71,694
Worldwide Church of God
www.wcg.org
US Reach: 67,221
The Trumpet (PCG)
www.Thetrumpet.com
US Reach: 45,557
Church of the Great God
www.Cgg.org
US Reach: 45,003
United Churcg of God - St Paul MN
www.ucgstp.org
US Reach: 42,577
Beyondtoday.tv (UCG)
www.beyondtoday.tv
US Reach: 24,645
Church of God PKG
www.cog-pkg.org
US Reach: 21,381
Garnertedarmstrong.ws
www.garnertedarmstrong.ws
US Reach: 18,558
Plain Truth Ministries
www.ptm.org
US Reach: 17,319
Church of God International
www.cgi.org
US Reach: 16,600
Philadelphia Church of God
www.pcog.org
US Reach: 13,066
Christian Oddessey (WCG)
www.christianodyssey.com
US Reach: 10,857
Exitsupportnetwork.com
www.exitsupportnetwork.com
US Reach: 10,814
Intercontinental Church of God
www.intercontinentalcog.org
US Reach: 10,273
Living Church of God
www.lcg.org
US Reach: 9,502
Servantsnews.com
www.servantsnews.com
US Reach: 8,873
The Journal (Churches of God)
www.thejournal.org
US Reach: 8,469
Key Of David (Gerald Flurry)
www.keyofdavid.com
US Reach: 8,419
Church of God Eternal
www.cogeternal.org
US Reach: 7,498
Church Of God Faithful Flock
www.cog-ff.com
US Reach: 6,115
COG Writer
www.cogwriter.com
Global Reach: 5,290
US Reach: 4,112
Herbert-w-armstrong.org
www.herbert-w-armstrong.org
US Reach: 4,604
Victor Kubik Website
www.kubik.org
US Reach: 2,245
Worldwide Church of God UK
www.wcg.org.uk
US Reach: < 2,000
Church of God (David Hume)
www.church-of-god.org
US Reach: < 2,000
Ambassador Watch
ambassadorwatch.blogspot.com
US Reach: < 2,000
Source: Quantcast Audience Search
http://www.quantcast.com/
bb said:
"He shared that a pastor has very little influence in producing growth in a church congregation. Most of his new members come from his congregation sharing at work and amongst friends some of the exciting and positive things that are going on at church, i.e. how Jesus has changed their lives. Their enthusiasm makes people want to come in and see what it is all about."
therein lies the difference between churches of men and The Church of God. Men feel a need to draw others into their organizations. In the True Church, God does the calling.
Well, isn't that a cute application of semantics, to say nothing of ACOG jingoism!
How do you think God calls people? Does He miraculously cause an individual to fumble with a radio or TV dial and suddenly encounter an ACOG broadcast? Or to see an ACOG magazine in the barber shop or dentist's office? Or to run across one of the ACOG sites while googling some topic?
Could He not cause someone to be just overflowing with the joys and blessings of Christianity, and to take this enthusiasm to their office, school, social club, or family gathering?
How do you think people were called in the days of Jesus Christ? Do you think that word of mouth could have had anything to do with the spread of Christianity?
I doubt that anyone would dispute that God must draw individuals to Himself, and to provide the understanding that causes them to accept Jesus Christ into their lives, but God is not limited to Armstrongite formulae. People communicate with one another, and God can place some of His people in front of other people to do His work at any time. He has used personal evangelism very effectively for centuries. Individual Christians are some of God's most effective tools, because they provide grass roots testimony as to what He has done in their lives.
I don't believe in accidents. God places certain people into our lives for specific purposes.
You seem to have a firm concept as to where the church of God is located. If it is an ACOG to which you are referring, could you explain to me why all of the ACOGs are primarily composed of senior citizens, and why, if these are God's church, they are not growing?
BB
Website Rankings Per Month
Source: Quantcast Audience Search
http://www.quantcast.com/
Restored Church of God
www.thercg.org
US Reach: 151,441
This site reaches over 151K U.S. monthly uniques. The site appeals to a primarily older audience.The typical visitor visits bible.org and reads jpost.com.
Good News Magazine (UCG)
www.gnmagazine.org
US Reach: 146,285
This site reaches over 156K U.S. monthly uniques. The site is popular among a skewing older audience.The typical visitor visits bible.org, watches Christian Broadcasting Network, and reads ynetnews.com.
United Church of God
www.ucg.org
US Reach: 132,935
This site reaches over 132K U.S. monthly uniques. The site is popular among a skewing older audience.The typical visitor visits bible.org, watches Christian Broadcasting Network, and reads prisonplanet.com.
Real Truth
www.realtruth.org
US Reach: 78,799
This site reaches approximately 78,799 U.S. monthly uniques. The site is popular among a skewing older, very slightly male biased audience.The typical visitor visits ccel.org, reads newswithviews.com, and watches Al Jazeera.
Tomorrows World (LCG)
www.tomorrowsworld.org
US Reach: 71,694
This site reaches approximately 71,694 U.S. monthly uniques. The site caters to a HH income up to $60k, primarily older group.The typical visitor visits gotquestions.org and reads ynetnews.com.
Worldwide Church of God
www.wcg.org
US Reach: 67,221
This site reaches approximately 84,884 U.S. monthly uniques. The site is popular among a slightly male slanted, skewing older, HH income up to $60k audience.The typical visitor visits bible.org, watches Christian Broadcasting Network, and reads worldnetdaily.com.
The Trumpet (PCG)
www.Thetrumpet.com
US Reach: 45,557
This site reaches approximately 45,557 U.S. monthly uniques. The site is popular among a more male, skewing older crowd.The typical visitor reads newswithviews.com.
Garnertedarmstrong.ws
www.garnertedarmstrong.ws
US Reach: 18,558
This site reaches approximately 18,558 U.S. monthly uniques. The site appeals to a primarily male, skewing older, more African American following.The typical visitor visits gotquestions.org and reads worldnetdaily.com.
Plain Truth Ministries
www.ptm.org
US Reach: 17,319
This site reaches approximately 19,507 U.S. monthly uniques. The site is popular among a more male, HH income up to $60k, primarily older audience.The typical visitor visits gotquestions.org and reads The Times (UK).
Philadelphia Church of God
www.pcog.org
US Reach: 13,066
This site reaches approximately 17,765 U.S. monthly uniques. The site is popular among a primarily older, more male crowd.The typical visitor reads jpost.com and visits bible.org.
Living Church of God
www.lcg.org
US Reach: 9,502
This site reaches approximately 14,648 U.S. monthly uniques. The site caters to a mostly Caucasian, primarily older, HH income up to $60k, slightly male slanted following.The typical visitor visits blueletterbible.org, watches PBS Online, and shops at alibris.com.
Herbert-w-armstrong.org
www.herbert-w-armstrong.org
US Reach: 4,604
This site reaches approximately 5,917 U.S. monthly uniques. The site is popular among a slightly female slanted, HH income up to $60k, skewing older audience.The typical visitor visits gotquestions.org.
COG Writer
www.cogwriter.com
Global Reach: 5,290
US Reach: 4,112
This site reaches over 5,290 monthly uniques, of which 4,112 (78%) are in the U.S. The site caters to a 55+, largely male, HH income up to $60k audience.The typical visitor visits bible.org and reads prisonplanet.com.
Raising The Ruins (PCG)
raisingtheruins.com
US Reach: < 2,000
This site reaches fewer than 2000 U.S. monthly uniques. The site is popular among a rather male, 55+ audience.The typical visitor reads newswithviews.com and visits breitbart.com.
Victor Kubik Website
www.kubik.org
US Reach: 2,245
This site reaches approximately 2,636 U.S. monthly uniques. The site is popular among a mostly Caucasian, college educated, primarily older, heavily female following.
Ambassador Watch
ambassadorwatch.blogspot.com
US Reach: 2,502
This blog reaches approximately 2,502 U.S. monthly uniques. The blog caters to a more educated, somewhat male, HH income up to $60k, mostly Caucasian, 55+ audience.
Source: Quantcast Audience Search
http://www.quantcast.com/
Tom, there is no prescribed "famine of the word" . Such a phrase appears no where in the bible.
You just are parroting what you hear, you don't know for yourself at all.
The phrase is "a famine of HEARING of the word" which is an entirely different thing.
Look it up.
Tired Skeptic - Great Post. It should be read by all.
Richard
I can only speak for myself, but I wonder how many "hits" of any COG are former COGers checking up on the latest the Guru or Presiding Evangelists and such have to say?
It's not one bit supportivie but rather cautionary or perhaps not a bit of fascination with the minds that have wrestled for control of their various pieces of the COG membership pie.
I listen to Dave Pack's sermons to simply be amazed at how a mind can think of itself. I look at Weinland's stuff to see how he's derailing himself and the wonder of how a man's mind can get so caught up with itself at the expense of others.
Those cultish leader types who have clawed their way to the top of small sandhills for influence are fascinating studies in narcissism as Doug Becker has so well noted.
At risk of having some feel this is a compliment, which it isn't, I have even seen more of what the Apostle Paul may have been about with all his self serving, I, me, my and prounouncements of himself as an Apostle with no one else saying so. Of the 24 Times Paul is called an Apostle, he calls himself it 22 times and Luke, his apologist, the other two times. Paul said he "saw Jesus" but we know it as in his head and not in reality. Fascinating. When Dave Pack speaks of his past "could have been the best at..." it sounds just like Paul crowing about his being above all his fellow students and a Pharisee of the Pharisees. It's the humble bragging thing.
At any rate, just a thought. Many who check out these sites are not looking to join or learn about any truth. They may be researching and shaking their heads in amazement, fear for the members or just plain disbelief.
Jack said...
>>Tom, there is no prescribed "famine of the word".<<
I am not sure what you mean by "prescribed," but there is a prophesied famine of the hearing of the word, and we are in that period of time.
Since the death of HWA, no one has been sent to preach the gospel to the world. Many false ministers have arrogated to themselves the responsibility for preaching the gospel, but God did not send them. So their efforts are not being blessed by God.
>>>Such a phrase appears no where in the bible.<<<
My paraphrase is correct.
>>>You just are parroting what you hear, you don't know for yourself at all.<<<
From whom did I hear this, pray tell?
>>>The phrase is "a famine of HEARING of the word" which is an entirely different thing.<<<
Telling me there is a difference without showing the difference is not very helpful. However, If there is a "famine of the word," there can't be a HEARING of the word, can there? For when Paul was explaining why the Jews didn't believe in Jesus, he was inspired to write: "How shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be SENT?"
And he concluded: "So faith comes by HEARING, and HEARING by the word of God." So the phrase, "The famine of the word" means that the gospel is now not being preached, so there can't be a HEARING of it.
Unless, of course, you are among those misguided people who believe that Christ is divided and that anyone can arrogate to himself the responsibility to preach the gospel. Being on TV or radio talking about the bible is not the same as preaching the gospel, you may be perplexed to learn!
There could also be a famine not listening to the word that is indeed being clearly preached. Too many filters maybe?
There could also be a famine of not listening to the word that is indeed being clearly preached. Too many filters maybe?
Has anybody seen a picture of Tom Mahon yet?
Judgmental Tom Mahon insulted Dennis Diehl's appearance on this blog recently, and has yet to show us a picture of himself so that we too can make a judgment.
Wouldn't that only be fair, Tom? You do believe in being fair, don't you - where is your picture, or are you ashamed of yourself?
Of course Tom Mahon is not interested in being fair! He is a hypocrite after all. He is full of double standards and contradictions.
Just look at some of his contradictions. Somehow he thinks everyone should respect and obey Herbert Armstrong, and yet he admits he selfishly withholds his tithes by claiming some convoluted reasoning that is simultaneously blatantly judgemental.
It is okay for him to insult and mock Dennis for his past as a minister carrying out Armstrongs teachings, yet he is free to disobey Armstrongs teachings while claiming he is the only one faithful to them.
He accuses people who post here of being cowards if they post anonymously, yet he began posting here anonymously himself under the name vista admin.
He mocked the appearance of Dennis and even attributed attitudes and thoughts based on his impression of that decades old picture, and yet is too cowardly to post a picture of himself for others to see.
He condemned others for using their imaginations, and yet he imagines motives in others without the slightest provocation.
He makes up scriptures as he goes along, in violation of the scriptures, or simply misquotes them to suit his needs and then proclaimes he is the only one who is capable of true understanding.
Why does he have so many double standards, accusations and judgemental attitudes? Only Tom Mahon can know the answer to that one until he tells us.
Thomas Munson
There is absolutely no famine of the word, or famine of the hearing of the word ongoing at this time! That is ludicrous.
Christians have better resources, documentation, and ready information at their fingers right now than at any time in history.
You could make a case that there was a famine of the word during the
Dark Ages. You could also look forward to a possible future time of Islamic domination as being a famine of the word.
You can only make a current case for such a famine if you equate "the word" with Armstrongism, because it is a fact that at this time in history, Armstrongism is on the wane. However, doing so in that manner would be extremely myopic. Only a person who has deliberately made themself blind and hearing challenged could accomplish this.
BB
Interesting stuff!
I wonder what Vic Kubrick's got going on to get a "heavily female following", which is at odds with the demographics of those who visit other armstrongist sites.
Perhaps some women will need to deeply reflect on, and repent of, their motives in visiting Vic's site.
But, do I believe that most other armstrongist sites are largely frequented by "older, slightly slanted and skewered males"?
Depends.
I worked with Vic Kubic way back and always found him to be a good soul and a giving person. The reason he may draw more females is because he is the only pastor type I know who actually has a work of giving and supplying the real needs of real people in real places. This practical caretaking is more a feminine trait than male and one in which, I feel , women would better identify with as something the example of Jesus would produce.
Where WCG and Dave Pack are notorious for "Be Warmed and Be Filled." Vic has always strived to do something about the needs of the poor and their practical life needs.
Seems I spoke too soon, Dennis.
Thanks for the words about Vic Kubic.
Always nice to know of things like that.
Hey, my sweetie tells me a story about you, of a little girl in the WCG who asked her mom, (about you):
"mommy, can you buy him for me?"
Dear Brethren and Coworkers,
This is the GREATEST WORK in this world today!!! God has established me as His Apostle to do this GREAT WORK and given you to me to do this GREAT WORK of GOD, the VERY WORK of THE LIVING GOD with me during this GUN LAP of the GREAT COMMISSION!!! Time is SHORT!!! God has blessed us to do this GREAT WORK. But I tell you today that this GREAT WORK could go DOWN if you do NOT RESPOND!!!
Notice my words carefully!!! None of you will escape the GREAT TRIBULATION if you do not fulfill your part in this GREAT COMMISSION!!! Right now we have a CRISIS in the VERY WORK of GOD!!!
That Great Deceiver and our Adversary, Satan the Devil has STIRRED UP evil men at this time to distract us from the real WORK of God!!! We must be about doing the WILL of GOD!!!
Some have entered in among us to TURN us AWAY from the TRUE WORD of God!!! The rebellious are in the BOND of Satan!!! They have lied and blasphemed!!! They are my enemies and they are your enemies. They RIDICULE this very WORK of God while PRETENDING to be of us!!!
Brethren, it gives me no PLEASURE to reject and MARK those who cause divisions, but we have AUTHORITY in God's Family and must follow that AUTHORITY from the TOP DOWN!!! Those who claim to be following me have PROVEN THEMSELVES to be HYPOCRITES!!! Those who quote me to gather to themselves a following, but who do not obey me as THE END TIME APOSTLE are apostate!!! They must be cast out and we must dedicate ourselves to go on to do THE GREAT COMMISSION under me as THE APOSTLE.
Therefore, it gives me no pleasure at this time to turn Tom Moran over to Satan for the DESTRUCTION of the FLESH that he can repent and return to us!!! We have been praying, meditating and fasting at HEADQUARTERS of the GREATEST WORK of God on the face of this earth!!! We must cast out Tom as the scorner to return to having peace among the BRETHREN.
Ministers are instructed to read this Pastor General's Report to the Churches of God this Sabbath!! Tom Moran is not to be contacted by anyone in the Church until he repents and is restored. May Christ speed that Day!!!!
In Jesus' Name,
Herbert W. Armstrong
Tired Skeptic said...
>>>Jesus gave parables about separating the sheep from the goats.<<<
Yes, although it may be one parable.
>>>Most people in the CoGs are in the sheep category.<<<
This assertion is so wrong it borders on madness! If the people in Cog-land are the sheep of Christ, then, you are driven to the inescapable conclusion that the ministers in cog-land are shepherds and not hirelings. For Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."
So since, according to you, the sheep of Christ are listening to and following voices of the ministers in cog-land, we are bound to conclude that those ministers are speaking with Christ's voice. For Christ said, "My sheep hear my voice."
In fact Jesus goes further by adding: "And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him; for they know not the voice of strangers." So since the sheep are not fleeing from the voices of the ministers in cog-land, then, once again you bound to conclude that the ministers is cog-land speak with the voice of Christ.
But God forbid that should be true. the reality is, the ministers is cog-land are hirelings. And Jesus teaches his true sheep how to identify hirelings thus: "But he that is a hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees: and the wolf catches them, and scatters the sheep." This is exactly how the ministers in cog-land behaved.
When the wolf in the form of Tkach senior, attacked the flock with the spiritual poison of Protestantism. Instead of the ministers confronting the wolf and laying down their lives for the flock, as Christ said a shepherd would do, they took bribes in the form of financial packages to betray God's people. In fact their treachery was worse than Judas'. He sold Jesus for 30 pieces of silver, and offer to return it when he realised what he had done, but the ministers sold God's people for a paltry sum, and have never offered to return it. Not that returning it will let them of the hook of justice!
Hmmm: What was it that Abraham said to the the rich man? "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead"?
>>>Jesus gave parables about separating the sheep from the goats.<<<
Yes, although it may be one parable.
The blasphemer questions Scripture?
Doubt is there?
Mel said:
""mommy, can you buy him for me?"
Oh that's funny. I remember that moment as if it was yesterday. Mansfield, Ohio!
Extract from a British police drama series episode aired on "één", a Belgian public TV station, on Easter Monday afternoon (original English soundtrack, with Dutch subtitles, as the Dutch-language stations here usually do):
"They did try to track down Mr Herbert Armstrong and it turns out he's dead."
"Then who's the ruddy idiot who's driving around in his car?"
This episode of "Heartbeat" was entitled (and I kid you not) "A wolf in sheep's clothing".
Apparently the series is very popular and has been running since 1992, but I believe this was the first time I'd ever seen an episode of it in my life. Maybe I need to get out more. Or perhaps the time has come to flee...
To Herbert Armstrong,
Hi Herb, good to hear from you again! I hope you like my videos that honor all the damage you did!
While in hell, is there anything we can help with that will lessen the torment you are suffering from? Is there anyone we can send to hell to assist your torment? We have a guy that torments us with his asinine comments that you may find some flattery in. His name is Tom. If you would like, we may be able to dispatch him for ALL your needs.
Tom, like yourself, is blinded by self righteousness. Perhaps a bedtime story...something like the "two trees and mother Eve" would help calm him when he becomes disrupted would help.
Please be kind because Tom is one of your sheep. You are his Shepard!
Remember Herb, be KIND!
Luv Kscribe.
Notice Tom Mahon didn't address his picture in his last post. I guess he picks and chooses which posts he will respond to just like he picks and chooses which commandments of his God, HWA, he will obey.
Will Tom Mahon rob his God, HWA?
Of all the Cogs that I have seen on the Web, there's only one I am aware of that has any credibility in saying they are "following in Herbie's footsteps", and that is COG, The Eternal. Because they believe he was "God's chosen apostle" they logically deduce that what he taught doctrinally for 40 years as truth (1934-1974)could not suddenly become "untruth" (as the day of Pentecost change, for example). This would be true, if he really had been God's chosen apostle. Because they believe he was, they conclude that even Herbie fell from the truth that God had given him.
So, while their website offerings indicate (to me anyway) a perpetual spiritual infancy, they are at least sincere in acting on their belief that he was an apostle from the beginning and that they owe loyalty to his teachings, not his person.
It would seem that other groups are more interested in perpetuating the financial security aspects of Herbalisation.
I wonder if COG, The Eternal experiences any growth in membership?
Kscribe said...
"We have a guy that torments us..."
MY COMMENT: Looks like you're getting to them, Tom. :-)
mel said...
Hey, my sweetie tells me a story about you, of a little girl in the WCG who asked her mom, (about you):
"mommy, can you buy him for me?"
MY COMMENT: Dennis, why don't you just bend over and let us kiss your royal red tush?
How ironic to have stumbled upon the Church of God, The Eternal, founded by Raymond Cole, just a few hours prior to Kiwi's post.
This prompts a further question: If salvation is only through Herbert Armstrong, what of all the previous "Church Eras" [which don't actually exist except as fantasies of Revelation 3]? They never accepted British Israelism. They actually didn't keep the Feasts. And some of them, like the Waldensians didn't even keep the Sabbath. Most of them never heard of the United States and only a few probably were dimly aware of Britain because of Roman occupation. Bummer.
I guess that the only person who will be in the exclusive Kingdom of God will be Tom Moran. He's obviously the only one who can qualify. He will be in darkness and blackness forever because he was the only one who could enter into the Kingdom of God because he was the only one faithful to the memories of Herbert Armstrong -- not that he kept the doctrine, mind you.
Some how, doesn't that seem like hell?
If you want my opinion, I think there is going to be an electronic brawl here on AW website.
God's way is give, so let's give Steve a good punch in the nose for his last comment before Gavin's bouncer shows up and tosses us all out.
I don't know who is worse - Self righteous Tom Moran who won't show us his picture or tush kissing little Stevie.
God's way is give, so let's give Steve a good punch in the nose for his last comment before Gavin's bouncer shows up and tosses us all out.
Richard
PS - I am sure I can trace my passive aggressive behavior to my upbringing in the Worldwide Church of Fraud.
Tom, (or "DICK"), or whatever you are predisposed to; you seem to be in serious need of mental health conseling. In addition, I believe Thorizine might help.
Tom = Steve
"Dennis, why don't you just bend over and let us kiss your royal red tush?"
Steve, you can't talk about Dennis like that. It's not the way it works around here. Do you even know who Dennis is? For starters, he was a marine sniper in Vietnam. Secondly, he was HWA's right-hand man- before he discovered the truth and left in disgust. Thirdly, he operates an orphanage in Romania, using the proceeds from his concerts- usually sharing the stage with David Hasselhoff. Yes, I said David Hasselhoff. Fourth, Dennis was spiritual advisor to Ghandi before the Beatles took off in a huff. That was before his WCG days. Finally, Dennis has probably saved the lives of almost everyone on this forum- mentally or physically. He pulled me from a burning HMMV in Haiti. I owe him my life.
So if you want to hang here, you need to show Dennis proper respect and quit insinuating that we worship Dennis blindly.
The Apostle Paul
The Apostle Paul,
Nice post, all very true no doubt but I still say God's way is give, so let's give little Stevie a good punch in the nose for his comment about Dennis.
Stevie, err I mean Tom Moron, would understand a good punch in the nose much better than your words - true though they may be.
Richard
What we've seen here from one or two posters -- well, OK, one poster -- certainly explains the Dark Ages.
Let's hope all this punching is in the form of a spiritual punch in the spiritual nose. That way it is on a level playing field with the spiritual horse with spiritual hooves that will soon be trampling us all to death... Sheeesh....
Thomas Munson
I awoke in my dream to the vision of the Lord and behold.... The four horsemen had been reduced to the four walker men.... They had four spiritual walkers... Each spiritual walker symbolized the same thing as the previous four spiritual horses did...
And I asked the lord....
Lord.. What happened to the spiritual horses that these horsemen were riding before they became your walkermen?
And the Lord spake unto me and said... Verily I say unto thee... Those four fearsome spiritual horses these elderly horsemen rode upon were murmering too often in their spiritual horse language, saying that I, the Lord, delay my coming for too long.
Their murmering and rebellion was as the sin of witchcraft... And the horsemen were vainly imagining stealing the glory of my return when I ride my horse to set up the glorious Kingdom of God.
So you see my son... Learn from this parable... There are plently of scrolls in the Spiritual book of life... And there was no spiritual glue to bind the pages of the scrolls together in unity...
Until the murmering ceased once the spiritual horses entered the spiritual glue factory....
Now the world awaits the four walkermen of the apocalypse....
Now nothing will steal my thunder!!!
And then the vision faded and i awoke.
Thomas Munson
Aw, c'mon, Steve.
It was just a very brief anecdote, and a true and cute one, at that.
Actually rather poignant if you knew more about the family involved, but I'll spare those details to not "name" them.
I think it's kind of cool if we, having roots in the WCG, can talk of the experiences back then and even sometimes even do a "remember when" fond-memory thingy now and then.
I've been to a couple of WCG reunions in which people who are still in WCG and people who are in different places attended, and I enjoyed them.
Also attended some other events attended by some ex-WCGers.
I've gotten along well with most of those folks, although I've been turned off by some, and enjoyed talking with others more.
I have tended to cordially walk away from those who tried to tell me about "The Absolute Truth"
Personally, when I encountered people who told me they are following the TRUTH better than others, I get turned off.
There's an attitude that tends to accompany such proclamations, and that attitude, I believe, tends to be found rather disgusting to many who have seen quite enough of it in the WCG.
I'm not entirely sure if Tom understands that or not, but I think he's probably aware that his regularly displaying that attitude here would earn some people's disgust and ire. Intentionally razzing folks who he sees as below him on the spiritual totem pole.
I mean, it's one thing to say I believe this or that, but it would be quite another to proclaim that others will be suffering certain described tortures if they don't believe as I do.
I fully expect people of differing viewpoints to be here, but I see a problem when Tom regularly goes to the realm of proclaiming others as destined for horrid tortures.
Oh, well.
I'm traveling to a birthday party for a friend from my WCG days this weekend, and anticipate a good time and the sharing of anecdotes, too.
Steve said...
>>>Kscribe said...
"We have a guy that torments us..."<<<
Steve>>>MY COMMENT: Looks like you're getting to them, Tom. :-)<<<
They have not seen anything yet! I have only been poking at them with the two-edged sword of the spirit. Wait until I start using it to pierce even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, then, they will not only have a mental limp, they will be positively paraplegic.-:)
What was Incompetence saying about pressing all the right buttons? And that is a rhetorical question.
'...I wonder if COG, The Eternal experiences any growth in membership?...'
I believe there are five UK members, one minister in the USA, one in Switzerland. They have a small Tabs in the USA - I believe, Tennessee. And yes - very exclusive (of others). They hold to a Monday Pentecost.
Well, this comment thread certainly degenerated.
--> Charlie
Tom you are weasling out by talking a lot.
You said famine of the WORD and that is NOT what it is or what it says.
Admit when you are wrong.
There is a big difference between famine of the word and a famine of hearing the word.
To those who doubt that a famine of the word will or did exist,please read Amos again,carefully,
put all the bits together,and you arrive at the original premise,that indeed a famine of the Word will,or did exist.
To those who don't get it, I had better go through line by line.
Amos 8.11 " Behold,the days come ,saith the Lord God,that I will send a FAMINE in the land,not a famine of bread ,nor a thirst for water,but of hearing of the words of the Lord.
Amos 8:12 "And they shall wander from sea to sea, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the lord,(AND NOTICE),AND THEY WILL NOT FIND IT ".
There will be no word to hear,therefore,as a consequence, you have a famine of the hearing of the word.
Seamus
I don't doubt it anonymous. I know that hearing means understanding. The famine will be one of understanding, not that the words will not be out there. Some of us know much by heart.
Jack,
I agree with you that some know much of the Bible off by heart.
I also agree that a word will always be out there,but I get the feeling that a PARTICULAR type of WORD will be ABSENT from the scene/have been absent from the scene.
There are many fakirs and charlatans out there who peddle a word of God, as in Matt 24:5,so in one way a word will always be around.
Yes, there could be a famine of hearing too,meaning that people will close their ears.This has always been the case.
But some people will be looking for a/the particular word of God and be unable to find it because it will have disappeared.That intrigues me.They will not be able to hear that which they formerly heard.And that is the nuance.
Seamus
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