Himmel! British Sabbatarian Robert Taylor hast Herbert W. Armschtrung videos geupenloaded to YouTube. More than sixty Herbalische clips so far. Liebe Gott! So if you want a taste of 1980s Herbolatry, this is definitely the place to steer your zeppelin too. Candidly brethren, it brought tears to my eyes...Robert writes: I am collecting and putting historical videos of the WCG, HWA, World Tomorrow and other stuff that I can find on YouTube... I am always looking for old stuff on video and dvds.
Though he be dead, yet it seems the Herbster yet liveth in the hearts of his devotees.
What will Robert's polar opposite, Rev. K. Scribe, have to say about this?
48 comments:
Also note the title "Shadows of the Worldwide Church of God" on Taylor's site. A not-so-subtle dig at our very own J? Not cool if you ask me.
I wonder if Taylor is a member of the same UK CoG splinter that plagiarized a couple of my pages on Rotten Ron, back in February/March?
Aggie, I thought Robert was a Torah-observant Messianic Believer. I have no problem whatsoever with that. I know a former WCG couple who have became that for over a decade and have been functional, productive members of that particular Messianic Jewish synagogue. Even their Rabbi whom I know even agreed with me that Armstrongism was a religion that was born in sin. The problem is that it seems Robert Taylor has syncrenized his Messianic Judaism with Armstrongism: a bad thing and very dangerous. Also if he is reponsible of what you are alleging, I hate to say to say this: Robert has lost my trust in him. I even had his comments in my "Intelligent Quote of the Day" section in my blog. I also could remember him being angry at me (at least he was respectful to me, so I will give him credit there) for posts discussing alternative views on Christmas alleging that I was using "philosophy" (oh how soo Armstrongist) to bolster my arguments and was angry that I considered Christians that didn't celebrate it weird. I explained to him that wasn't the intention.
As for K-Scribe's response to the latest news, I'll bet he's saying, "My work is definately cut out for me! Time for me get to work now!"
A curiosity -- and I don't actually really understand this: What's with these people who worship Herbert Armstrong? What's in it for them? What's *the bottom line*?
Empowerment? A desire to be validated? Obsessive addiction?
I'll probably be sorry for this, but could someone please explain?
I"m still trying to figure out how Tom Mahon expects me to still stick with HWA when he can't abide any of the splinters and yet since I didn't, considers me a hireling and SOB for Jesus.
I outgrew it. That's not falling away from truth. It's outgrowing that which is false. I admit, I did not wish to start my own church based on past ideas, nor did i wish to teach BS, but that doesn't qualify me for a hireling. That qualifies me for a critical thinker.
Am I missing something?
I did not have a look at youtube. This is the kind of nostalgic walk down memory lane that I don't need.
But recently I experienced an unexpected walk down memory lane. I saw the movie "Kite Runner". Something about the boy Hassan struck a respondent chord with me. I thought it through and realized that we have all been like Hassan. Hassan was intensely dedicated to his friend Amir. Hassan was a Hazara servant. But his friend Amir came to despise him for reasons beyond Hassan's control.
Hassan was dedicated and loyal but despised by those he served and loved. This is a reasonably accurate description of the experiences that ex-Armstrongists have had. And it is at this point that the Armstrongists ministry applies its most painful abuse. And HWA has become iconic of this kind of abuse.
-- Neo
Don't condemn your buddy completely out of hand just yet Felix, I'm only speculating here.
If it is the same Robert Taylor, then it looks like I'm the third witness: Didn't I tell you someone would try and use Messianic Judaism as a cover for Armstrongism?? :-(
I hate being right.
:-(
Well, this has certainly been done before. I'm aware of other messianic groups with ex-Armstrongite members who still revere HWA, and consider him to be a brother. Some feel that he didn't have 100% of the truth, though, as in the case of sacred names, or some other ancient practices. They consider HWA to be a step in their personal evolution.
As far as Robert goes, I seem to recall him portraying himself chiefly as a Messianic Jew here on this blog. He mentioned that he felt HWA or WCG had gone wrong by abolishing many elements of the old covenant. I recall one post concerning current validity of mikvahs. So, I guess Robert would have been fine with us all taking mikvahs prior to Passover services.
Anyone who has even given casual thought to why people preserve original HWA material will realize that it is because they revere the man. The fact that the old articles and videos also convict HWA of his unnatural crimes against humanity is besides the point to those blinded by him. I'm certain that some of the ex member type kaneh bosn people from AC and Imperial probably used some of HWA's stuff to freak one another out during times of herbal consumption, but that is another topic for another time.
BB
I am going to put Ambassador Watch on You Tube!
Ambassador Watch MUST be preserved for future generations!
It is the most important dissident website in OVER 1900 YEARS! THATS ONE HUNDRED PROPHETIC TIME CYCLES BRETHREN!)
But, say you with little faith,..."Ambassador Watch" has no video and has no audio....not a problem!!. A still shot of the front page, with a quarter page insert shot of Apostate General Gavin will be shown, along with random selections from the Purple Hymnal.
Anthropologists of the future will be thankful to us for preserving this important institution and its legacy for future generations.
The Gates of Hell Will not Prevail angainst the AW, and this message of AW will go unto all nations!...And then the beginning can start!
Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA
That Kaiser Wilhelm /Hogan's Heroes helmet bring's back some bad memories. My dad had one of those and he made me wear it while he cut my hair, my parents tithed to WCG and he couldnt afford to take me to a barber shop!
people preserve original HWA material will realize that it is because they revere the man
Ah yes, the grandfatherly figure: A fictional public relations invention. He looked like a harmless old grandfather who cared about people: The one bit of otherwise lacking emotional content that gave people the warm fuzzies.
After that is firmly cemented into someone's head, it's hard to imagine that he would ever do anyone any intentional harm. He projected a kind caring figure, not unlike Colonel Sanders, who just wanted people to be happy.
This is another case that it seems that people need to check their emotions at the door and use reason, logic and hard data instead.
ft said....
Robert was....alleging that I was using "philosophy"......to bolster my arguments...
"Philosophy" is often code word for "logic".
But then again nobody claimed Armstrongism was logically consistent in its beliefs.
Herbert Armstrong misrepresented God: What more is there to say?
Felix noted:
"...for posts discussing alternative views on Christmas alleging that I was using "philosophy" (oh how soo Armstrongist) to bolster my arguments"
Usually alternative explanations of cherished religious ideas are rejected because one is using "just human reasoning."
That is always a cue to ask the person just what kind of reasoning he uses and this leads to either getting the point or somehow having to admit that they have "God's reasoning" abilities.
Which they don't...it's all human reasoning because we are all humans.
I believe we have all seen enough Religious BS from those that claim something more than just mere human reasoning for their ideas, organizations and apostleships.
Human reasoning got us to Mars.
Humans convinced they think like God got us all addicted to AW seeking perspective and healing.
Robert should think very carefully about promoting Herbert Armstrong.
Herbert Armstrong didn't just misrepresent God. Herbert Armstrong stood up and as a narcissist was God.
It may be unwitting, but those who promote Herbert Armstrong are promoting a false god who claimed that he would be God as God is God [but not God], and thus promoting idolatry, putting a god above God.
'...it's all human reasoning because we are all humans...'
Yes - the only reasoning ability we have is our God-given human reasoning. Every human who reasons (not a lot) bases that on what he or she knows. We are better placed to properly use our human reasoning when it is based on divine revelation.
Human reason apart from God's revelation has failed for millennia to solve mankind's challenges.
Woids of Wisdom:
When you judge an experience as unfair, or a tragedy, you automatically experience anger, emotional withdrawal, depression, fear or another of the many painful emotions that accompany the perception of yourself or another as a victim.
When you see each of your challenges as an opportunity to discover and change the parts of yourself that feel like a victim rather than the creator of your own experiences, you automatically respond to the challenges in your life with gratitude, and even joy.
When you respond to the challenges in your life with gratitude and appreciation, your response to them change.
Instead of reacting with anger, fear, depression, jealousy or rage, you begin to respond with compassion and wisdom. You become more detached from your painful experiences, and that allows you to see the circumstances of your life more clearly and to respond to them more intelligently.
You get nowhere in life by continuing to respond to the difficulties in your life in the same ways that you have responded to them in the past. Your experiences begin to change when your responses to your challenges begin to change.
Whether your responses change or not is for you to decide.
Someone snorted:
"We are better placed to properly use our human reasoning when it is based on divine revelation."
Which of course presupposes that the reasoner can assure all that his reasonings are based on truly truly and really really Divine Revelation, which no one can.
I guess all one has to preface his reasonings with is:
"God has revealed to me...
"God wants me now to....
"It is obvious God is.....
"Truly truly God told me...
"He really did brethren...
"This scripture is speaking of me/us today brethren.....
"That Kaiser Wilhelm /Hogan's Heroes helmet bring's back some bad memories. My dad had one of those and he made me wear it while he cut my hair, my parents tithed to WCG and he couldnt afford to take me to a barber shop!"
Anon, that is one of the more startling things I've ever heard, and I've heard a lot of 'em going back 50+ years. Not as horrendous as certain sexual abuses, maybe, but abusive in its own way. Amazing.
Thank you Gavin for mentioning the site.
I am a little bemused by all the reponses however for me, I entered the WCG in 1991 before the era of HWA during some of the changes.
I have not seen many of the old broadcasts or other productions and felt that I had missed out on the opportunity to judge these things for myself.
I am not promoting HWA per se but I am looking at these things from a historical perspective viewing the messages for myself juding them in light of the Bible.
We should never try to rewrite the history of the church nor to write it out of its historical perspective. The history of the movement should be available for anyone who wishes to study, learn from it, or simply to criticise it.
Everyone has a right whether or not they wish to view historical material relating to the WCG. For some it may conjure up bad memories, for others it offers a glimpse of what the church was like which provides some fascinating viewing, for some it is a few moments of nostalgia--some tears of joy remembering how simple life may have been back then.
HWA for me was a stepping stone which brought me to a knowledge of the Sabbath and Holy days, and the hope that one day Jesus Christ will return to this earth establishing His 1000 reign on the earth. I am thankful to HWA for these things (but you must not confuse this with HWA worship).
Robert wirtes, "I am collecting and putting historical videos of the WCG, HWA, World Tomorrow and other stuff that I can find on YouTube... I am always looking for old stuff on video and dvds".
MY COMMENT - Why? What purpose does it serve?
Be thankful you did not have to live it Robert!
Richard
Robert,
I am going to make a request to you just once.
Please remove the "Shadows of the Worldwide Church of God" from the upper left of your YouTube account. That is unusually and blatantly close to my website "Shadows of WCG", which has been in existence now for well over a year. I don't want people thinking your youtube account is related to my sites, as the purposes are entirely different.
If you refuse to do so, at the least, make a clarification that your youtube account is NOT related to "Shadows of WCG", the quoted words linked to my site.
Ach Gavin,
You would not want to sit on that Preusen helm. Ouch,fundamentally speaking.
Fundamentally speaking,we are all ex-fundamentalists here.
Jorgheinz
Gavin,
Steering one's Zeppelin to that pointy Prussian helmet might result in a sudden exodus of gas.
You could say,circumbendiously that Herbolatry had FLATUS STATUS.
Jorgheinz
Flatus???
Hmmm, where have I heard that term before?
BB
Hey Robert. You want some history of that church that "brought you to the knowledge" of (the eighteen reviled truths)?
Read this.
Now tell me why you can so blindly support (note I do not say worship the church that "led you to the truth".
Purple Hymnal,
Abuses that happened in the past in the WCG by individual ministers or members does not invalidate the teachings of the Bible.
If I was to hold personal sins against people, I would not be willing to serve under King David (even if he did claim to repent), nor would I touch the writings of the Apostle Paul (for his part in having christians murdered).
Not to mention Moses who married a foreigner (against the laws of God but God somehow permitted it).
Nor would I hold Lot up as a righteous man as he is known to enjoy the odd drink.
Sampson, a womaniser, is hardly a good role model either but somehow he repented at the very last minute! And that is all that matters, repentance!
In fact if I am to judge the truth of God by the personal examples of others, I might as well tear up the Bible and forget all about it! Hardly anyone inside or outside of the pages of the Bible actually has an unblemished record.
Robert said: "In fact if I am to judge the truth of God by the personal examples of others, I might as well tear up the Bible and forget all about it!"
Robert - That would be a good start.
Robert, you failed to answer "J's" request to remove your similar and confusing Shadows of the Worldwide Church of God from your site.
The basic problem here is that for the most part, those who have given themselves power in the Armstrong movement did not, and are not repenting of the harmful cultic practices which have ruined so many lives. You have one leader who brags about never having committed a major sin since his babptism, presumably 50 years ago plus or minus. You have others who continue to preach lies such as British Israelism, and to preach their uninspired "best guesses" at prophecy to extort not only tithes, but also tithes which are not scripturally supported.
David and Paul sinned, and repented. Interestingly, and some might say karmically, some of the things which they did to others kept recurring in their own lives as they did God's work. David, the warrior, was frequently embattled by armies, one of which was led by his son Absalom. Paul was imprisoned and stoned, much the same way in which he had persecuted Christians.
HWA only got a small taste of what he had done to COG-7, as he witnessed only a very few splinters from his own church prior to its wholesale descent into a diaspora following his death.
HWA may have led you to some truth, Robert, but he preached misrepresentations, a contaminated gospel, and had a very negative impact on most of his followers' lives. If you stumbled upon what you now consider truth, it was a totally inintended consequence of Armstrongism.
Robert said...
Purple Hymnal,
Abuses that happened in the past in the WCG by individual ministers or members does not invalidate the teachings of the Bible.
Robert...
Aren't you also overlooking these
teachings of the bible, when it comes to HWA, as to the qualifications of a minister (of which HWA fails miserably)...
1 Timothy 3
Qualifications of Overseers
1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,[a] he desires a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;
3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;
4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence
5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);
6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
well said Robert!
Bravo!!
The nice thing that robert has on YouTube is the Armstrong name. Most people will google this and run up on what sites? herbertwarmstrong.com or herbertwarmstrong.net or the site run by Herb himself....herbertwarmstrongvideo.net
Yes, I have these videos and more. Maybe I should start a cult????!
"well said Robert!
Bravo!!"
uh huh, and if you walked up and saw Herbert naked at the door of his hotel room and his daughter on the bed, you'd think twice about listening to ANYTHING he says as a "Christian" teacher/leader, much less "God's end-time Apostle."
"I am thankful to HWA for these things..."
In other words, "If it weren't for HWA, I never would have heard The Truth" or "It was through HWA that God brought me to The Truth."
Therefore, let's give the drunken pederast his Godly due! What insanity. If God really used HWA as an instrument of evangelism, then this only confirms that Biblegod is a sick God, indeed.
The Apostate Paul
Paul wrote: "I am thankful to HWA for these things..."
Yep and we never would have the financial problems we have in our personal lives if our money was invested. Instead Herbie got the money and pissed it away! Got to love Robert though. He is a fool and the reason we recognize this fact is that all of us were fools for Armstrong at one time. It is now Roberts time! Good luck Robert!
It is amazing HWA would be 115 years old if alive today. Oh, that's right. Robert is keeping HWA alive on Youtube, not too unlike Mark Armstrong carting GTA out every week on WGN.
What is the allure of preserving dead cult leaders? Oh, that's right - it provides Mark Armstrong with a living and gives him something to do.
Richard
All of the tiny, mercurial ACOG splinters are totally ineffective in getting out the gospel of Herbert W. Armstrong, as a warning to the world. Pretty much invisible!
So, I guess youtube is about the only way to keep their messiah alive for posterity.
It must be very disheartening to all of the ACOG people to watch from the sidelines while others are actually reaching the world with the gospel of Jesus. I'd think there's a lesson in there somewhere, unless these people believe that HWA already did the job and all that remains is nourishment of the flock.
Youa haveah to love the Surprising God-ah (WCG) Blog's gospel. Iffa ever there-ah was a reason to skip-ah church, they'd-ah provide it.
Mind-ah numbing in scope, smushy and gushy in-ah content, it-ah shows you-ah can quote-ah ten books long before-ah you find a scripture to match-ah what-ah the hell you'ah tryin to say.
Youa haveah to love the Surprising God-ah (WCG) Blog's gospel. Iffa ever there-ah was a reason to skip-ah church, they'd-ah provide it.
Mind-ah numbing in scope, smushy and gushy in-ah content, it-ah shows you-ah can quote-ah ten books long before-ah you find a scripture to match-ah what-ah the hell you'ah tryin to say.
PS'ah...
Da Popa'ah has'ah announced that we all'ah come from'ah the apes, which is'ah fine. I'm'a not kiddin. But'ah don't tell'ah Adam and Eve. We need'ah those stories to make'ah up our own stories for the little people.
I can just'a feel Saint'a Augustine a spinnin' in his'a grave.
Father Guido Sarducci said...
"PS'ah...
Da Popa'ah has'ah announced that we all'ah come from'ah the apes, which is'ah fine. I'm'a not kiddin. But'ah don't tell'ah Adam and Eve".
MY COMMENT - I find any suggestions that we all descended from Tom Mahon to be completely ridiculous.
MY COMMENT - I find any suggestions that we all descended from Tom Mahon to be completely ridiculous.
God'ah works in'ah marvelous ways'ah his'ah wonders to'ah perform!
Father Guido -
I just wanted to tell you how much I have appreciated your insight and clear explanations over the years. I still treasure certain articles (relics?) I purchased from you, inlcuding:
1. "Pope On A Rope" Soap
2. The "Find the Pope in the Pizza" puzzle, and
3. My "I Saw the Pope on TV!" lapel button
Glad to hear that you are still active. Best wishes!
God'ah bless you my'ah son Paco!
What'ah we all need'ah around'ah here is ah' more of the walkin on da water attitude!!
Its unfortunate this site has degenerated to the level of moronic. Too bad the Idiots are taking over. I'm out, never to return.
Manny - don't let the door bang you in the butt on the way out.
Kudos to the memory of Orlin Grabbe. He was one very smart fellow and a good guy. His life included a family background in ranching, a slog through wcg-ac, an academic career at Harvard after exiting wcg, creation of his own currency exchange modeling software, stints in Dubai and Costa Rica plus who knows how many interests in intelligence agencies, conspiracy theories, aliens, Area 51 and beautiful women. God love ya, Orlin.
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