Saturday, 24 May 2008

Why Meeker Matters

The spectacle of a leading UCG minister and former COE member screaming and pounding his fists on the carpet may be a tad disconcerting, but does it really matter? Joel Meeker wouldn't be the first COG elder to throw a five-star tantrum, and he won't be the last.

Meeker however is perhaps the UCG's chief asset in the French-speaking world. He has edited French-language publications for Cincinnati, traveling the world on their behalf - Europe, the Caribbean and Africa. If Meeker catches a cold, you'll hear sneezing in Bordeaux. Clyde will have to tip-toe through this particular tulip patch with greatest care.

And, interestingly enough given the current spat, Joel has served as chair of the Ethics, Roles and Rules Committee!

One thing is clear, after this impressive little hissy-fit it'll be difficult to kiss and make up.

A couple of comments from the earlier posting throw some light on Meeker's character:

One year before the GCE he posted and said that the nonsalaried elders who didn't got to AC should talk with their Regional Pastor about who to vote for. Seems that the "worldly educated" elders who didn't go to AC...didn't have the brains to know who to vote for.

Another correspondent notes:

You will note, the term "member" or "membership" or "church members" or "brethren" appears nowhere in Joel's write up.

Which puts some perspective on the matter.


Anonymous said...

A new COG face for francophones wouldn't be the worst thing on earth.

The French churches have long been a backwater of COG-dom ever since the Apartian days. Meeker was drenched in those moldy theological waters along the river Sienne. Ever notice how such a radical country has never produced a radical Armstrongite?

As to Armstrongite teachings, in much of France, its still 1962.

If I was Dean I'd assign him to Cameroon. And honestly, that'd hardly be a punishment.

Tired Skeptic said...

Everyone here is really smart, so this is simply a review for most:

1) The Armstrongist churches of God shouldn't exist in the first place: Their foundation is upon a man who was a false prophet. The WCG should have gone out of business no later than 1975. The churches of God serve no real purpose.

2) There is a great deal of doubt that the ministry of the church of gods actually believe in God. Their immoral, illegal and unethical actions belie their utter lack of fear of God.

3) Proverbs very clearly states not to go with an angry man lest you learn his ways. Herbert Armstrong was an angry man. The ones who succeeded him have shown themselves to have fiery tempers -- including Joseph Tkach Junior -- and not in a good way, if there is any such thing.

4) The church of gods worshiped Herbert Armstrong. Many of the churches of God openly do so today. The CoGIT plays his sermons every three weeks or so. The focus was on a man. The reason for that is that Herbert Armstrong was a narcissist. He needed to be worshiped. He had to have the applause. He needed to be The Apostle. Otherwise, he would have just shriveled and vanished away.

Such men generally do not have sons who are narcissists. Instead, they have sons who are narcissistic sources which have been manipulated to provide what the founder wants from them. That hardly qualifies them as leaders. They don't demand to be worshiped. They were not the center of attention growing up. They can never measure up to their father. Therefore, even if selected, they will falter because they just don't have what it takes to carry it off. They are too weak. The people demand a strong Nimrod as their god.

5) Besides not having "the right stuff", the sons of Icons often don't want the empire their fathers built and wouldn't know what to do with it. Note Joey, who inherited the kingdom and doesn't seem to know what to do with it. They usually don't want it in the first place. Some might want to carry on their father's legacy, but, you know, when your father claims that he is "That Prophet" -- the true physical incarnation of Jesus Christ -- it's a tough act to follow.

6) The sons of the [false] prophets end up with, if not outright mental illness, then, certainly, mental disorders -- most of which are in the category of personality disorders. Does borderline personality disorder ring a bell? Picking up your father from jail and paying $1,200 bail after a DUI following a Holyday certainly does wonders for a father-son relationship. Think GTA and all that he was as a result of being confused with all the mixed messages he received growing up under his father-despot.

7) The Internet with all its free information has ruined the chances of successors being viable after so many people have caught on the scam. None of this was real in the first place.

8) The cognitive dissonance between the old and the new cannot be resolved. The old authoritarian structure of hierarchy doesn't work in today's workplace and neither does the fear religion of the cold war. Times have changed and so has society. The church of gods cannot attract people based on the premise that a man can save them through his opinions of doctrines from the Great Tribulation any longer. The twenty somethings want the feel good Chri$tian Mu$ic and fun more modern religions have to offer. The Armstrongists are stuck in the past without a clue as to how to catch up. They not only cannot attract new members, they can't even hold on to the ones they have.

The empire crumbled long ago. The best the successor can do is pick through the rubble which has been left to find expired tins to live off of.

Beyond all that, I would challenge anyone to demonstrate that any of the ministers of the church of gods really believe in God. They sure don't act like it.

And as Psalms declares, Unless the Lord shall build the house, the weary builders toil in vain.

Anonymous said...

Sycophant sicko-fantasy OR ass-kissers rebellion - Which?

When you look at some of the elders in UCG or any other XCG you may find many who were back slapping butt kissers who knew how to move their way up through the ranks of the congregations. This must be a dream come true for the sycophants in United where they think now the butt kissing will be returned to them. Highly unlikely.

To be sure there are some great elders and wives out there who really do care about brethren.

If you visit united you might meet elders who claim to have been the ones who stood up for the truth. Sounding as they were the only ones who did so they claim or act as if they are so high almighty. But when you look around they are so few if any who had followed from worldwide this sycophants who always wanted recognition now feel they are getting the respect they deserv. Maybe the new progressive united leadership will follow through on the wishes and whims of the elders time remaind to be seen.

Someone referred to 360 and Kubic starting united. These elders will tell you they were starting united too when they were standing up.

Bamboo_bends said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
UGH UCG said...

. "In the meanwhile, may God have mercy on His people; they deserve better."

Seems Joel had the members in mind too.

UGH UCG said...

. "In the meanwhile, may God have mercy on His people; they deserve better."

Seems Joel had the members in mind too.

Burgers said...

What's up with the Mr. Armstrong "history" lesson? I don't see any connection at all to the story that was posted.

Anonymous said...

"What's up with the Mr. Armstrong "history" lesson? I don't see any connection at all to the story that was posted.'

Where does UCG's theology come from? Where did UCG itself spring from? In what organizational and spiritual environment was Meeker molded?

It all comes from the lecherous anus of "Mr." Armstrong. *spit*

The Apostate Paul

Content Former Member said...

I remember Joel Meeker. He's smart and he has diligently applied himself. He has a lot going for him.

I would advise him to look once more at his analysis and believe its implications. That won't be easy, but if he can find courage to accept and act intelligently on the evidence he's presented, he'll find a way to continue developing his considerable gifts somewhere else. Only when one joins the human race can he or she really serve God.

William Moses Kunstler said...

"I would advise him to look once more at his analysis and believe its implications."

Faulty reasoning leads to faulty conclusions.

In my opinion, Meeker is correct in his analysis of Deans insubordination and is also correct in his conclusion.

If Dean wants to do his own work (what ever that may be) fine. But to go contrary to the wishes of his self imposed superiors at United is a bit hypocritical. And for Dean to be rewarded for his rebellion against the wishes of the organization is out and out wrong.

Dean is a hypocrite.

Tired Skeptic said...

For those in the UCG who are dissatisfied, the solution is simple: Change to a new coven or drop out of the witchcraft entirely.

For the warlocks in the Coven of Evil, though, it isn't that simple: They have to continue to find ways to support themselves.

At the same time, they have to admit the magic is gone. Wizard Meeker admits as much, as the rituals produce less and less. Not unlike Hogwart, there are adversaries within [as well as without]. Not everyone is on the same page in the Book of Shadows.

The real problem is the Great Magi has died and left no viable successor to carry on the stirring of the cauldrons of potions, as it were. Those were prosperous times, invoking fear in those observers of craft and times with the simple wonderment of virtual gremlins, goblins and demons invented as enemies of the realm, requiring wards to keep them at bay. Those were much more prosperous days and now that the dark times have come, there are those seeking powers which have slipped away.

The denial is obvious. This whole realm of sorcery is rooted in the pagan past. Yet no one is willing to step up to the plate and admit the Painful Truth that the wickedness and evil have been pervasive from the very start: These wizards come a line of wicked wizards pretending to be good. Unfortunately, the public has come to view them exactly and precisely to be what they are.

One suspects that the whole magical kingdom should be abandoned and people return to the simpler times without witches, warlocks, magic and covens to concentrate on the priorities of family, friends, work, God and country. It looks more and more that the Magic Kingdom of Walt Disney is much more viable than the one the UCG coven has attempted to build. And they are the most successful at it among the other prestigious warlocks of the Covens of Gall. People should go back to basics and abandon the CoGs.

At least it would be cheaper and a tad more sane.

BC said...

The Reformation is ON: Come to the booklet burning!

Anonymous said...

Did want to clarify that the "worldly educated" that I put in quotes were my words, since Joel had distinguished AC grad elders from the others. I don't have the original post, so it was in my words the substance of about what he had written...Sue

Byker Bob said...

Not to change the subject, but Gavin's got to be rejoicing today! Native New Zealander Scott Dixon won the Indy 500!


Anonymous said...

From the Council of Elders:

Announcement to be Read in All Churches on the Sabbath of May 24

We have just completed a profitable General Conference of Elders meeting in Cincinnati, Ohio. Our new strategic plan, the operation plan and the budget for the next fiscal year were approved by large margins. We greatly appreciate your prayers for the overall success of this annual event.

This announcement is to update you regarding the proposed Home Office relocation to Texas. As you know, a resolution to rescind last year’s ballot approving the move was placed on this year’s agenda. This resolution passed by 187 in favor and 175 opposed. It is clear that the two ballots on the relocation of the Home Office demonstrate that we are not united on this issue.

So how do we proceed now?

All of us who serve on the Council of Elders and in administration want you to know that we remain dedicated to our primary purposes of preaching the gospel and preparing a people. We must not allow our differences over the relocation issue to undermine our commitment to do the Work that God has called us to do. All of us want the facilities which will best serve our needs.

The initial reason for proposing the move was to address the needs of the Church, both short term and long term. The administration has the task of bringing to the Council recommendations on how we should now proceed. We will keep you informed of decisions and progress on this important aspect of God’s work.

Thank you for your continued prayers and faithful support.

Content Former Member said...

Wm. Moses Kunstler said, "In my opinion, Meeker is correct in his analysis of Deans insubordination and is also correct in his conclusion."

My reference wasn't to any of the details, but to Joel's bewilderment at the whole scene. He is searching for the hand of God in the events he mentions. His analysis hinges on the premise he grew up with, that Armstrong's WCG, now morphed into the UCG, is the legitimate and unique spiritual descendent of the church Jesus built.

In his early years he couldn’t countenance questioning decisions of the church; they had to be right, they had to be of God. How dare anyone question what God, through his chosen leaders, had decided to do!

Today he sings another song, questioning, analyzing, walking now in the extremely unsure shoes of "God's chosen leaders" -- and still basing his thoughts on the premise he grew up with.

If the fundamental premise is wrong, then no amount of clear thinking based on that premise will yield the answer.

NewZeapolis 500 said...

Byker Bob said...
"Gavin's got to be rejoicing today! Native New Zealander Scott Dixon won the Indy 500!"

Boy oh boy...that's like Shinto Fujinamurita winning the Daytona 500!

Truly truly...time is short! :)

Juan Rhineland said...

Truly, better not be making fun of me. You will die a slow quick death.

I was waiting for the results of the Indy 500 and can now announce that this is just the beginning of sorrows.

Next Thunder: Barak Orummney wins nomination for President. Announces himself as spokesman of wife as Vice President

Truly, really is...

Phoenix Rising said...

Wooooooo Hooooooo.....Hairless Apes plant spacecraft on Mars!
Congratulations Homo Sapiens!

You've come a long way baby!

Dean destroys UCG!!! said...

Who would have thought that Herbert Armstrongs constant companion in the 70's and 80s would singlehandedly bring about the distruction of the largest offshoot of the WCG. I expect the UCG to begin to disintegrate and cease to exist in short order. Nice work Aaron Dean!

Content Former Member said...

You're saying Aaron Dean has power to do what not even the gates of hell can accomplish? Woah!

manny said...

Please define "gates of hell".....

Anonymous said...

Kiss and make up, Gavin??

Cosmetics are surely disallowed.


Anonymous said...

Was there not a Lester Grabbe,also??


Bamboo_bends said...

Dean destroys UCG!!! said...

..... I expect the UCG to begin to disintegrate and cease to exist in short order. Nice work Aaron Dean!

Spoken like a preacher who lost out on the vote...

Those of us outside the Armstrong camps have long learned not to discount the resilience of these groups.

Long term they are all doomed due to natural demographics and not retaining the youth. But if you're willing to waith 20-30 years, you will be right, eventually. And Dean could be an old man.

Content Former Member said...

Manny, I wouldn't venture to guess what "gates of hell" means. My comment was tongue in cheek.

Adam Clarke says: "The gates of hell, pulai adou, i.e. the machinations and powers of the invisible world...".

Steve said...

Anonymous said...
From the Council of Elders:

Announcement to be Read in All Churches on the Sabbath of May 24

MESSAGE TO THE BRETHREN: "The birds are singing and flying around bringing us sweet nectar and olive branches, and all the animals are lined up two by two boarding the UCG love boat on it's way to smooth sailing on this wonderful and beautiful day! Preaching the gospel and YOU are our primary concerns, so keep sending those tithes and offerings in."

MY COMMENT: Usually, when the big shots of UCG have to reassure the "brethren" that everything is hunky-dory...they are trying to do damage control. So, something is afoul. I wonder how long it will be before the next split?