Friday, 18 January 2008

Random Musings


Browsing at Abe Books I noticed that the old purple Bible Hymnal is quite a lucrative commodity: two copies of this "rare" treasure are on offer, one selling for $95 and the other for $98, and neither in mint condition. In contrast the later WCG hymnal can be yours for as little as $1.36

What does this tell us?

David Pack, responding to the placement of Dwight Armstrong's hymns in the public domain, cloned the Bible Hymnal last year with a new cover. Unfortunately, to avail yourself of a copy you'd probably have to join Pack's RCG, which would end up costing you a great deal more than ninety-five bucks.

From dubious hymnals to dubious movies. My nomination for most pointless film of the decade goes to Cloverfield, which I had the misfortune to see today. As if anyone needs another reason to put New York on their list of places to avoid. Was it supposed to be Sci-Fi or was it Horror or something else again?

Who knows, who cares... avoid at all costs.

A better investment: How Not To Say What You Mean: A Dictionary of Euphemisms. To say the least, every page is an education (if a thoroughly un-theological one.) Published by Oxford University Press, this little gem is now in its fourth edition. For anyone with a wicked sense of humor who enjoys language-play (a special mention of the venerable correspondent from Gibraltar might be in order here) this is a pearl of very great price.

And speaking of price, it doesn't cost $95 either!

41 comments:

Anonymous said...

Speaking of Pack………….

Some drink from the fountain of knowledge, but he only gargled
and is all foam, with no beer.
Has a photographic memory, but forgot to load the film since he’s a few clowns short of a circus and
more confused than traffic in Hong Kong...

Anoneemoose

Anonymous said...

Just because a movie sucks, doesn't mean you want to miss out on NYC. I was there last weekend and I can tell you: lots of fun. :)

Anonymous said...

NYC is ok - I live close to it, so to me it is over-rated.


Now, Montreal is a fun city, especially in the summertime.

Gavin, I wish you hadn't posted jpg's of the purple hymnal...it is going to take me hours to get some of those tunes out of my head now!

One of the things that always struck me is that even if my folks knew the song by heart, they would still turn to the page as instructed and follow along, as if they were robots and somehow the program might change...I think they use Xerox copies in hulme's sect now.

Anonymous said...

This just in regarding Bobby Fisher. No mention of his troubles with armstrongism though:

Click here

Bamboo_bends said...

I positively cannot recommend this church enough to people.

Corky said...

The purple hymnal, a brainwashing book. I used to have one of those, along with every book, booklet and leaflet published by the Armstrong cult.

These, along with stacks of PT and GN magazines and correspondence course, were loaded into a hammermill and reduced to dust and tiny fragments in April, 1976.

Adding this to the compost pile, I realized that I had found a good use for that literature at last.

Byker bob said...

Hey, Charlie,

Yes, it's sad that our fellow traveler (some might use the term victim), Bobby Fischer has passed.

I for one am glad that the ACOGs did not get any free publicity out of this event.

The article which I read this morning on MSN described Fischer's anti-Jewish rants. Since he was half Jewish himself, you have to wonder if these rants were not a reaction to the pre-millennial dispensationalist teachings of Armstrongism, and Armstrong's literal interpretations of the largely figurative and allegorical Book of Revelation. There are many Christian people, especially in evangelical circles, who do not understand the long tradition of apocalyptic literature, its place in history, and how it was regarded and interpreted by the ancients. This provokes various and often opposing reactions, from jingoistic Christian Zionism to outright hatred of the Jews, since the possible end time scenarios all center around the Jews, and Israel and the Middle East.

Even if Revelation had been intended to be a veiled timeline, there continue to be far too many devout people, interested in doing good, for the God of the Bible to be motivated to pull the plug. There are plenty of bad things going on, but no way have we reached a state of affairs where society in general is "as in the days of Sodom and Gomorah."

BB

Lussenheide said...

I have made a few bucks from WCG memorabilia. My college age son likes to sell junk on EBAY for extra pocket money, so I gave him a 50/50 split on some old WCG books etc. that I havent looked at in years, are available on the net, etc.

Got about $50 for the 1982 Envoy, and $20 for the Autobiography, and even got about $20 for a "assortment grab bag" of mixed booklets and old PTs.

Flurry seems to be the biggest collector of WCG trivia/artifacts.

BTW- Anyone want to offer me a bid on an old video of Garner Ted Armstrong on the "HEE HAW" show??

Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA

Corky said...

byker bob said,

Even if Revelation had been intended to be a veiled timeline, there continue to be far too many devout people, interested in doing good, for the God of the Bible to be motivated to pull the plug. There are plenty of bad things going on, but no way have we reached a state of affairs where society in general is "as in the days of Sodom and Gomorah."

Seems that most folks don't want to see it but things have vastly improved since NT times.

There's a lot of bad but slowly over time, the human condition has improved since the days of the barbarism of the Roman Empire and the human conditions before then.

Christendom has done a lot of really bad things but it is has done a lot of really good things too. Not only Christendom but others as well.

Anonymous said...

Good ol Bob F, Stan R's chess partner.
He supported the 9/11 attacks, so as far as I'm concerned if you don't love US you can get your a%%
out which he did.

Byker Bob said...

Corky,

There are certain Christians who believe that the improvements you noted are due to God's kingdom gradually infiltrating the kingdoms of the world, this having been initiated by Jesus Christ. My mind continues to be boggled by the wide variety of thinking just within the Christian community. Their thoughts and attitudes become almost predictable, if you happen to know the individual Christian's attitude towards law and grace.

At least here in the USA, and most civilized countries, these truly are the good old days. I don't know of any countries in today's world where Christians are being fed to lions in arenas. If I understand Sodom and Gomorah correctly, we'd have to conclude that the only places matching the behavioral patterns of those cities are our prison system, and perhaps some of the seedier bars and roadhouses, where, in the words of Texas singer-songwriter Ray Wylie Hubbard, "they seem to have forgotten all about God and the words of the New Testament".

The only danger I see on the horizon is the fanatics who are actively trying to influence leaders and events to "help" God fulfill the possible worst case scenarios outlined in Revelation. We have evangelical ranchers attempting to breed the perfect red heifer, people hating Catholic Christians because they think the
RCC is the Great Whore of Revelation, and Christian Zionists who would like to exterminate all Muslims, even those of the Christian persuasion.

BB

Neotherm said...

I recall the Bobby Fischer phenomenon when it hit AC Big Sandy. Everybody started playing chess and suddenly it seemed that we were in the big time, hanging on to Fischer's coattails.

I think Armstrongites have always courted the Rich and Famous. The proxmity of Hollywood to Pasadena probably encouraged this. Also, GTA's interest in becoming an entertainer. Remember the rage over Dan Truhitte who sang in the Sound of Music and attended AC for a few days?

All this stuff is pretty tawdry.

-- Neo

Tom Mahon said...

Corky said...

>>>The purple hymnal, a brainwashing book. I used to have one of those, along with every book, booklet and leaflet published by the Armstrong cult.<<<

I have four copies of the purple hymnal, which my family use every Sabbath, and as my eldest son is a brilliant pianist, he accompanies the family.

The thought of selling them would be repugnant to me, and selling them would be sacrilege.

>>>These, along with stacks of PT and GN magazines and correspondence course, were loaded into a hammermill and reduced to dust and tiny fragments in April, 1976.<<<

Well, you didn't appreciate the value of what you had. You will rue the day you treated the word of God with contempt!

Lussenheide said...

Current Membership totals for WCG, From the WCG website posted this month.

Canada
4,476

United States
10,873

Northeast
4,005

Southeast
3,346

Western
3,522

Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA

Anonymous said...

"You will rue the day you treated the word of God with contempt!"


Well, there you have it. Tom views the PN and GN as the word of God.


Paul

Anonymous said...

Tom the Terrible admitteth: "I have four copies of the purple hymnal, which my family use every Sabbath, and as my eldest son is a brilliant pianist, he accompanies the family."

Or else the beatings will commence until proper submission is attained!

Tom the Angel of Death prophesieth: "Well, you didn't appreciate the value of what you had. You will rue the day you treated the word of God with contempt!"

Tom - Do you include the issues that contradicted earlier issues as the word of God as well? What about the issues that contained failed prophecies?? Are they the 'Inspired' word of God?

I'll tell you what Tom, just as pieces of the Berlin Wall still exist to testify about the failure of communism, I shall keep some examples of what you so erroneously call the 'Word of God'. I will not keep them to inspire people to turn to armstrongism but as a monument to its stupidity and colossal failure.

I quite seriously wonder if there are instruments of torture in your basement and if there are bodies buried in your basement or backyard. You display a myriad of behaviors that would indicate serious and probably dangerous mental issues. If any of your family members are free enough to peruse the internet I have one very simple and impossible to mistake message for them: RUN, AS FAST AS YOU CAN! GO TO THE POLICE! YOU DON"T HAVE TO CONTINUE SUFFERING!

Anonymous said...

Tom said:

>>>These, along with stacks of PT and GN magazines and correspondence course, were loaded into a hammermill and reduced to dust and tiny fragments in April, 1976.<<<

Well, you didn't appreciate the value of what you had. You will rue the day you treated the word of God with contempt!

I don't see the Word of God listed here, Tom. In regards to Christian belief, it is universally recognized by those who are Christians that the Word of God is only, only, ONLY the Holy Bible - period. Another classic example of how Armstrongism exalts WCG material to the same level as the Bible.

Anonymous said...

Esteeming anything up to and paramount to the Word of God that is NOT the Word of God - and calling it the Word of God - is idolatry - thou shalt have NO other gods before me says the Bible - and your statement is blasphemous, if you believe the scriptures!

Shame on you for exalting any material not directly inspired by God as the Word of God!!!!!!!! Surely you know that! The materials written by the COGs were NOT the Word of God!!!!!!!!!

The PT, the GN, the WN were written by MEN, not by God. This is one of the most arrogant statements I have EVER seen come out of the mouth of an armstrongite - and one of the most blatantly false.

This is one of the most theologically ignorant statements I've ever seen. Perhaps Tom should revisit Christianity 101.

Anonymous said...

I read an article in Sports Illustrated where the author followed Bobby F when he was amongs the trolls that hung out at the public libary in LA. Good Article.

DennisDiehl said...

Tom: A question

In what way is the death of Jesus a sacrfice to you?

All the sacrificial animals and such in the OT "pointing" to Jesus have stayed dead in their role as sacrifices.

How is it that a Jesus who seemed to know he'd be back in a mere weekend, better than ever, is a meaningful or unique and amazing sacrifice?

Should a real sacrifice not stay dead for the payment of sin? The Jesus of the Gospels was merely inconvenienced. He did not die the worst death and of those ever crucified in history. He did not die the longest or most painful death in history. He didn't even get to choke to death as his buddies did after getting their legs broken with a bat.

And in what way is "God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son," for a weekend, an amazing sacrifice on His part? I have buried a lot of children and I am sure it would have been much easier to bare for the parents and all concerned if we all knew they'd be back by Monday morning better than ever.

If the gods know it's a mere event to be played out and for show but Jesus really pays no ultimate price for us...how is that a sacrifice?

Should not Jesus have stayed dead as all his OT types did to be a REAL sacrifice?

I'd like to hear your perspective on this...without scorn of course.
Just musing here too.

Anonymous said...

Thanks to Bill Lussenheide for pointing us to the WCG's report on their current membership and/or attendance. They seem to be saying that - in the US -they have fewer than 11,000 in attendance for a typical week but that up 18,000 individuals attend at various times. As with other denominations, Africa seems on its way to becoming the area with the most attendees or members.

Anonymous said...

Getting rid of the old Worldwide Hymnal and other associated material by hammermill would somewhat be gratifying.

Tom Mahon will be interested to know,that even when I was a full tithe paying member of Worldwide, I used to have the occasional bonfire to reduce the ever increasing heap of verbosity.Some people liked seeing their name in print.It was all in the King James,anyway,so why would you need 100 other versions,often faulty anyway?

And Tom,might I add that Bibles get dog-eared and worn.Dispose of the old one and get a sparkling new replacement.Nothing sacriligeous in that.

A sibling told me that they worshipped "El Roi",as though they were the sole repository of God's knowledge.They were only "BIG NOTING", expecting me to be overawed.I reminded this sibling that they were just one of 3 BILLION worshippers of God around the globe,each thinking they alone have the "good oil" and exclusive access to God.

Tom, the same remarks can apply to Gerald Flurry and HWA.They are just another pebble on the beach.It's a pity so many fools shell out to their cause.


Jorgheinz

Anonymous said...

Ah,yes Bobby Fisher/Fischer.

Yes,Worldwide did get caught up in a chess craze for a while.

And the NZ distributor of "The Journal",no mean chess player himself,followed every Fisher/Spassky match with increasing exuberance.I do believe that the initial series between these two luminaries of the game occurred during one Feast of Tabs period.

It was hoped that Bobby might become a fisher of men for HWA,but as in so many cases he was a fizzer,or is that fissure?

Yours ever,

Seamus

Anonymous said...

That old purple hymnal evokes cogent memories.

In retrospect, I would perhaps more appropriately rename it
"HYNN-MAL": let the wise perceive.


Gibraltar Correspondent.

Anonymous said...

That old purple hymnal evokes cogent memories.

In retrospect, I would perhaps more appropriately rename it
"HYNN-MAL": let the wise perceive.


Gibraltar Correspondent.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Neotherm,there was great excitement when Dan Truhitte of Sound of Music fame attended AC for a few days.The ladies must have swooned for a while,fogetting their favourite,young-buck up and coming ministers.

God was showing that AC was his chosen re-education vessel by allowing the idols,the rich and famous of this world to associate with it.No dissembler am I.

But who today would remember the name of Dan Truhitte? And who was that guy Herbert Armstrong? A common mis-representing advertising agent, I have heard.

Old Herb used to write that the bankers(initial consonantal subsitutions are allowed) of his day,the then pillars of society, were not remembered by succeeding generations,just like his own.

HWA..who was he??

And in a few years,who were Gerry Flurry and good old Uncle Rodders?

Hi, Kinnear.

A Nonnie Mouse

Robert said...

>>>There's a lot of bad but slowly over time, the human condition has improved since the days of the barbarism of the Roman Empire and the human conditions before then.

You forget it has only been about 67 years since the Nazis were ruling Europe throwing people into gas ovens.

There were Sabbatarians caught up in Europe at the time. The majority being the Seventh day Adventists who went along with the Nazi regime. But a tiny group broke away called the Reformed Seventh Day Adventists who refused military service and got themselves thrown into concentration camps where some were tortured and died. In France the government came across some Jewish groups, some claiming to believe in Jesus that they could not distinguish between Jews and Messianic Jews, Subbotniks.

There has not been an improvement in the human condition. What has happened is that the world has been liberated from Catholic rule over Europe since the 1800s, allowing progress. The Islamic countries were better off than the dark ages in Europe. The Islamic countries built roads, hospitals, invented soap, some medical practices (I forget which ones) while most of Europe was living in the dark age!

>>>>Christendom has done a lot of really bad things but it is has done a lot of really good things too. Not only Christendom but others as well.

Let me see what Christianity has brought me. The Ten Commandments, oh but they teach their abolition and I am accused of being a legalist if I should DARE to follow them. But haven't I read those somewhere before? Oh, yes, it is in the Old Testament. So that must be Jewish. So really the Ten Commandments are not a Christian invention afterall!

Has Christianity brought peace, love and harmony to all men? No! It brought persecution, dark ages, blood libels and sacrificial burnings, remember poor old Mr Ridley! Us hardened protestants (who in the words of Ian Paisley, WILL NEVER SURRENDER to the catholic church)will never forget the atrocities carried out in God's name and by the authority of His spokeperson on the earth--the pope!

We are only where we are today because the authority of the catholic church has been removed from her. We are no longer under the authority of our local parish priest who will report anything suspicious to his superior which could mean we could end up before the Inquisition.

But then this world doesn't really care about the 60 million people who were killed throughout the centuries we would rather be offended by a little church hyprocrisy!

Lussenheide said...

Dan Truhitte, as well known as he was in COG circles only has one credit on his IBD movie list..

Thats right, a "one hit wonder" with the Sound of Music.

His son is a world renowned opera singer.

Dan does have a website for any of you that are curious and interested in what he is doing now...

http://www.dantruhitte.com/

Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA

Anonymous said...

Not to derail the comments thread from the believer/non-believer sniping (which I enjoy consistently :D), I think I have found the way to get the songs from the purple hymnal out of my head, for once and for all.

Simply, I am going through them, one by one and deconstructing them.

Purple Hymnal

(I have a link to AW on the blogroll, if the admin would like to reciprocate; I haven't found an email address for you yet, so couldn't let you know.)

Be sure to check out the entry for "The Heavens God's Glory Do Declare", if nothing else interests you--did you realize we were sun-worshippers?

Kscribe said...

Bill said...
BTW- Anyone want to offer me a bid on an old video of Garner Ted Armstrong on the "HEE HAW" show??

You copy it and send it to me and I will post a small part of it in video form. I will even throw an ad on my site for it! Or you can sell it on E-Bay. I am sure some herbal/ted fan will pitch some good green hay your way!

Kscribe said...

Tom said...The thought of selling them would be repugnant to me, and selling them would be sacrilege....

Gee, I didn't know they where scripture or I would have treasured them to the end!

By the way Tom, can you try to spell sacrilege again. I'm confused!

Kscribe said...

Tom, are you a clean/orderly freak? You know, like the movie where the wife fakes her death to escape the compulsive and tormentor husband. You seem the type. Better hang on to the whip and your old ladies hair because in the end if that women has a brain in her head, she will leave your fool ass in a moment.

Gavin said...

Thanks purplehymnal - thou art linked. Cool idea.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Gavin, glad you like it! :)

Anonymous said...

Jeez, Tom. I hope that you guys who emphasize HWA's writings more than Jesus' teachings will make it into the kingdom! It's an awful risky proposition to consider extrabiblical writings and teachings to be equal to scripture. I mean, with the incest, alcoholism, prosthesis and flog log, HWA would be a failure as a savior. My advice would be ignore HWA and go directly to the source (Jesus). Much safer that way.

Tom Mahon said...

Charlie said:

>>>I quite seriously wonder if there are instruments of torture in your basement and if there are bodies buried in your basement or backyard.<<<

I don't have a basement! As for bodies being buried in my backyard, who knows? I bought the house with the freehold 7 years ago, and have renovated the garden, with new turf, a selection shrubs and a play area for the children. If there are bodies buried in the garden, the previous owners would be responsible.

>>>You display a myriad of behaviors that would indicate serious and probably dangerous mental issues.<<<

Your analysis of my behaviour is about as perceptive as your ability to discern the difference between your right and left hand.

>>>If any of your family members are free enough to peruse the internet I have one very simple and impossible to mistake message for them: RUN, AS FAST AS YOU CAN! GO TO THE POLICE! YOU DON"T HAVE TO CONTINUE SUFFERING!<<<

All of my children have access to the Internet, and my 11 years old daughter was sitting next to me when I posted my comments on the purple hymnal. And I told her and my wife what you said in reply. My wife thought you were insane, and my daughter was mildly surprised, and slightly amused. As for my reaction, I just fell about laughing.

Anonymous said...

It's funny how like minds think alike on the Ambassador Watch website. When I heard of Bobby Fischer's passing, I reflected for a few moments on the WCG era of my life, and then wondered whatever happened to that other famous WCG personality from the movie "Sound of Music"? It shows the memories from that era (or, should I say error) are still in our minds.

With Bobby Fischer, Dan Truhitte and Garner Ted on Hee Haw, it was something to be proud of giving WCG some legitimacy with the rest of the world.

Though, after reading the obituary of Bobby Fischer yesterday, I have to wonder what the effects of Armstrongism was on his somewhat reclusive life, and strange worldview?

Richard

Anonymous said...

While we are on the subject of the few famous WCG personalities (Bobby Fischer, Dan Truhitte), I remember hearing rumor in mid 1970s WCG that there was a WCG member playing minor league baseball.

Recently, I visited the Painful Truth website, and got the rest of the story over 30 years later.

Seems the Sabbath keeping minor league baseball player Dan Thomas (nickname "Sundown") made it to the major leagues with the Milwaukee Brewers for a couple of seasons. Apparently, a few years later he was arrested for rape in Alabama, and committed suicide by hanging himself in his jail cell.

I guess there is something in me that says the fate of Dan Thomas as a WCG personality is "what else would you expect from a WCG public personality?"

Richard

Anonymous said...

Tom the Terrible saith: "Your analysis of my behaviour is about as perceptive as your ability to discern the difference between your right and left hand."

Tom, if you are going to insult me, please do it in earnest. That wasn't very good...or funny.

Tom it doesn't take very much perception to see the mental issues you have. From what you post here and on your own website, a very clear picture develops. You are obviously a disturbed man. I have no doubt your wife and daughter had the reaction they did...They take their cues from you.

Tom, You didn't answer these three questions from before: "Tom - Do you include the issues that contradicted earlier issues as the word of God as well? What about the issues that contained failed prophecies?? Are they the 'Inspired' word of God?"

I can remember as a child on a walk through a vacant lot in town finding a whole bunch of PT's dumped and rotting. I remember thinking at the time that it was a terrible thing to do this to the church's magazine. Someone had seen the magazine for the trash it was and threw it out. Now, as an adult I still think it was a terrible thing...the terrible thing was littering. They should have been recycled.

You do a lot of finger pointing both here and in the 'articles' on your website. Try the same exercise in a mirror. That is the guy you need to change.

Robert said...

>>> I mean, with the incest, alcoholism, prosthesis and flog log, HWA would be a failure as a savior. My advice would be ignore HWA and go directly to the source (Jesus).

Oh i suppose your way is better, following the Roman gentile Christianity where the clergy go around sexually abusing children, forcing Jews to give up their faith or be put to death, torturing and murdering over 60 million in the name of the cross. There is more blood on your hands than you realise! Herbert ARmstrong's sins are but a mere SPECK in God's eyes compared to the religion that you follow!

Read the book, OUR HANDS ARE STAINED BY BLOOD, THE TRAGIC STORY OF THE CHURCH AND THE JEWISH PEOPLE by Michael L Brown.

Anonymous said...

Robert - Relax dude...Seriously. Check out a dating service, get a Xbox or something. You seem like a nice enough guy, just wound up to tight.