The Philistines have had a really bad reputation for a very long time. They're the villains in the Old Testament/Tanakh (remember Goliath?) But the facts, it seems, are not always what they seem. This was a literate and cultured people. Check out the March 13 NY Times article.
Which leads to an interesting question. Does the Bible portray "the bad guys" accurately? Is it impartial and objective, a "God's eye-view", or are we reading through layers of long-forgotten political convenience and national polemic?
Unfortunately there's a lot of material in the books of Samuel, Kings and Chronicles that's, well, historically suspect, as Finkelstein and Silberman clearly demonstrate in David and Solomon: In Search of the Bible's Sacred Kings and the Roots of the Western Tradition
. Another provocative writer (with a more populist touch) is Matthew Sturgis, author of It Ain't Necessarily So
. Having read both, I recommend them to anyone interested in the history behind the ancient stories. In short, it's not just the Genesis material that we have to exercise caution over. The "historical books" also need to be read with great care.Needless to say, True Believers and Philadelphian hold-fasts, like fundamentalists of all persuasions, will avoid material like this. Others will find their horizons stretched by inconvenient facts, and may find themselves embarked on a exhilarating learning curve.
19 comments:
Having lived among the "Philistines" I can understand the why's and wherefores regarding Israel being commanded to exterminate the inhabitants of the land. They have a hatred for other people (especially the Jews) that would be difficult for many in western societies to comprehend. Even young teens who I met and talked to were totally indoctrinated into this hatred mindset. Could it be this was a part of their culture then, and has survived culturally down through time to the present era? Sure looks like it.
The Philistines and other surrounding nations of Israel were not deemed the enemy because of their lack of cultural advancement, poor linguistic skills or lack of ship building techniques. God told Israel to destroy them because of their evil practices such as child sacrifice, temple prostitution, ritual bestiality, ect. ect. In todays tolerant society where no one culture is deemed superior to another who are we to judge a person for wanting to light their kid on fire to appease the pagan gods? The real enemy is the bible with its stupid restrictive laws like "Thou shall not steal", "Thou shall not murder", "Thou shall not lie", "Thou shall not commit adultery". How stupid can you get?
Why should we have to read all this extra material you suggest on the historical books, when everything we need to know about the Old Testament is found in Herman Hoeh's divinely inspired Compendium?
Others will find their horizons stretched by inconvenient facts, and may find themselves embarked on a exhilarating learning curve.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Just as the WCG didn't have the "facts" correct, neither do Finkelstein and friends have a lock on them. Along with Finkelstein, try reading "On the Reliability of the Old Testament", where Kitchen demolishes a lot of Finkelstein's research. It's uncomfortable not to "know", so we all tend to look for material that will make sense of things for us, and we ignore the other stuff. True "learning" is not knowing the facts, but understanding what's known and what's not, and understanding the points of disagreement. You can't get that from a single book.
"The Philistines and all the "...tites" and "...ites" were just people like everyone else on the planet, including the Israelites."
The fact is the Phoenicians did sacrifice their children and were not like other "ites". Carthage was destroyed by the Romans in part because of this odious practice.
But the Phoenicians apparently also invented the forerunner of the modern alphabet. God's condemnation has to do with ethics and morality not technology and cultural development. Although, technology and cultural development are certainly influenced by ethics and morality of any society.
-- Neo
God told Israel to destroy them because of their evil practices such as child sacrifice, temple prostitution, ritual bestiality, ect. ect. In todays tolerant society where no one culture is deemed superior to another who are we to judge a person for wanting to light their kid on fire to appease the pagan gods?
Whereupon in a few centuries, the Israelites were taken into captivity because of their evil practices such as child sacrifice, temple prostitution, ritual bestiality, etc. After all, they did start their history worshiping The Golden Calf.
And now today, we have the church of gods who are at war with one another, saber rattling as it were, threatening to sue each other and engaging in sheep stealing while lying and practicing deception. They have sacrificed their children by ignoring them to worship Herbert Armstrong and those who came after, there isn't a temple, but there's been a lot of adultery and GTA with coeds -- which is sort of the same thing as temple prostitution -- and it isn't certain what sort of rituals are taken up as a practice: Let's just say that it isn't pleasing to God and it does not serve the fatherless, widow and stranger very well. Mainly, there's just idolatry and if you can't get past the First Commandment, it isn't constructive to discuss the rest.
Perhaps this is an oversimplification -- but doesn't history teach that those who are on the winning side get to write the history?
(Holocaust debunkers and U.S. "Southern heritage" groups notwithstanding.)
God wins in the end. Hooray!
A matter of curiosity: Who are the Philistines supposed to be and how do we know?
-- Neo
** Richard said...
Perhaps this is an oversimplification -- but doesn't history teach that those who are on the winning side get to write the history? **
Yes, and that's not an oversimplification. I'm sure the Jews did this, as well as the Philistines, Greeks, Romans, Soviets and even the Armstrongologists continue to do to this day.
Perhaps it is really as Napoleon said, History is the fable we [the group] all agree upon.
- Stinger
Anonymous said...
Why should we have to read all this extra material you suggest on the historical books, when everything we need to know about the Old Testament is found in Herman Hoeh's divinely inspired Compendium? ,,,
You ARE joking, right?
Hey, give it enough time and the "Bad Guys" dont seem so bad, or at least we try to humanize them. Something about our nature wants to "humanize" the barbaric or try to rationalize their brutality.
Example: The latest movie about Japanese soldiers "Letters from Iwo Jima".
Using the same mentality about the Phillistines as proposed, could be used about the NAZIS couldnt it??
Afterall, the Nazis were a literate and cultured people were they not? Wasnt the music of Wagner beautiful when it was played in concert in front of Goebbels, Himler , Goering and the Fuhrer himself?
Nazi science was ahead of its time! Rockets, Jet engines, Heavy water experiments. Engineering wonders like the Autobahn.
A wonderful Nazi society tho?? Arent we all glad that the Nazi machine was crushed. Anciently it was no different, the Phillistines were the Nazis of their day.
Lussenheide
SEASONAL SUBLIMITIES
It's time to get a little verbal,
Embarking on a diet non-Herbal.
Hot cross buns are in the shops,
Spread with butter,down they pops.
Spicy, yeasty, full of flavour,
The very texture one can savour.
Who can resist their taste appeal,
The spongy,bungee great mouth feel.
United will never sanction buns
Spoiling all the Easter funs.
And Philly's fantasy we all know,
All puffed up and full of blow.
We are leaven Herbal meals behind,
No longer hopefully are we blind.
An egg or two so full of choc
Will see poor Spanky doing his block.
So let's rejoice in things Astarte
And have a good old Easter party.
Greetings,Gavin,spend some money
On helping out the seasonal bunny.
Shamefully, Seamus
Then again Mr Lussenheide, it could have been the Israelites, not the Philistines, who were the Nazis of their day. It all depends on your perspective. If you were a victim of the ethnic cleansing of the armies of Yahweh ("spare them not"), I daresay you'd be somewhat distressed.
Annonymous and all:
It is the "Winners who get to write History!" .
If there is a God- Then the Israelites were the blessed chosen people for the job.
If there is no God - Then the Israelites were the superiorly bred people who beat out the Phillistines based upon selective breeding and social evolution.
Either way, enough of this post- modern "all cultures are equal" and have a right to exist crapola.
They arent.
And yes, it is not fun to be in a culture that aint cutting it and is soon to be under the heel of a society that is superior to it.
But alas, this is the story of mankind, as brutal and nasty as it is. "The winners get to write history"
Lussenheide
Lussenheide, the social Darwinist?
We need to repent of our evil ways, and acknowledge Herbert W. Armstrong as the Apostle of God, the Elijah to come. He turned the hearts of the fathers to the sons as prophesied in Malachi's message.
The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. The carnal mind is an emnity against God.
But, this gospel of the kingdom - God's work of witnessing and warning to this earth - shall be preached in ALL the world, and then shall the end come.
Send money to headquarters for the building fund, only after you have paid your 1st tithes and offerings (and, 3rd tithe if applicable). TIME IS SHORT. Mortgage your house and send the money to headquarters to finish the work - the final push, the final gunlap.
Some of you just don't get it! You didn't get it then, and you still don't get it now. You will never get it!
Anonymous said...
"We need to repent of our evil ways, and acknowledge Herbert W. Armstrong as the Apostle of God, the Elijah to come. He turned the hearts of the fathers to the sons as prophesied in Malachi's message...blah, blah, blah."
MY COMMENT: Oh! And don't forget. Herbie said, "Your VERY SALVATION depends on you following the next Pastor General of the Worldwide Church of God!"
Steve K
To Anonymous Zombie 12:40 A.M: You really ought to get your pastor to write some new material for you, or learn how to indulge in the intelligent exchange of ideas in a blog setting. We've seen your cut and paste post about ten times now, determined that it is totally without merit, and are now to the point of actually finding it annoying.
Reality is that turds have more intrinsic value than Herbert W. Armstrong! Obviously you haven't read Deuteronomy recently while pondering over 1975 or British Israelism.
BB
Byker Bob said...
Reality is that turds have more intrinsic value than Herbert W. Armstrong! Obviously you haven't read Deuteronomy recently while pondering over 1975 or British Israelism.
Bob, the guy or gal posting this is looking for a reaction. Positive or negative, he will get the attention he or she craves! And just maybe, something to post on another pro-Herbie site!
Now we all know without a doubt that Mr. Hankey from "South Park" has more brains than the ass hat that posts these Spam crap messages. Perhaps the "monitor" should relinquish response control to this sick, demented mind that has such a disposition to such negative behavior!
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