Now there's talk of an insider coup to topple Ronnie from his COG-PKG throne, or is it just clever Ronnie covering his options? Hard to tell. It's not clear whether "plan B" comes with Ronnie's imprimatur or not. In fact it's hard to assess the value of the source that's spilled the beans.Either way, Weinland will not be a happy chap to see it hit the Net.
To put it in perspective, the pathetic little power play inside a minuscule sect is irrelevant. At best it's game-playing by a bunch of hopeless yobbos splashing around in a very small pond. All of the Weinland PR over the 17th couldn't score a story on AP, not even under "human interest".
The Weinland Tribulation was always going to be the Tribulation you're having when you're not having the Tribulation. Anyone who thinks they can pull their chestnuts out of this campfire intact is, well, nuts.
But there's certainly entertainment value for those of us on the sidelines. Popcorn anyone?
On a different tack, have you ever wondered what became of Herbert Armstrong's relatives? A tip off on another thread suggests that the guy in the picture above is Larry Gott, a grandson of HWA. Larry has a series of talks on YouTube called Prophecy Schmophecy: None of it is true.
Way to go Larry! Finally, an "Armstrong" who makes sense! You can catch part 1 here, part 2 here, and part three here. And yes, he does mention HWA (briefly in pt.1) and Ronnie (pt.3)
59 comments:
Gavin said, "But there's certainly entertainment value for those of us on the sidelines. Popcorn anyone?"
MY COMMENT - Armstrong's WCG and any of its subsequent derivatives and wannabe profits (oops, I meant prophets) is ALL entertainment. I don't see how ANY of these Armstrongite ministers have any credibility any more. They are a joke.
From Armstrong himself and the 1960s/1970s WCG fire and brimstone preaching the 1972 tribulation and "1975 In Prophecy" that turned out to be completely false then rationalized away that the real significance of 1972 was the Work advertising in Reader's Digest; to the nutcase that I read about who was holding HWA resurrection watches at Armstrong's grave; to Spanky Rod MerryDeath's "5 more years" predictions which he has been saying for almost 50 years now; to this psychopath Ronnie Weinland who set a date of April 17, and when it passed, rationalized it all away that the significance was him receiving more confidence and boldness; They are all one great big entertaining JOKE!
So, yes Gavin. Please pass the popcorn!
Richard
Gavin said, "Larry Gott, a grandson of HWA. Larry has a series of talks on YouTube called Prophecy Schmophecy: None of it is true".
MY COMMENT - I watched two of Larry Gott's YouTube videos - great stuff!
However, there should be a disclosure: For those of us old enough to remember the life of Herbert W. Armstrong in detail, you can definitely see HWA's genes in Larry Gott's facial appearance and voice tone. The physical resemblance to HWA is evident for all to see, and I wish he would disclose the family tie.
Of course, Larry Gott's Youtube work is in direct contrast to one of HWAs other grandsons, Mark Armstrong, who makes his living by keeping the Armstrong Prophecy business alive.
Richard
Larry Gott....(shaking head)....what memories! There is one more relative who spent some time at summer camp. Can't think of his name. Nice kid, hippielike with longer hair, would'nt' fish because it hurt the fish and always referred to "Uncle Ted." Anyone remember?
Larry and I were pretty good friends at A.C. He was an older student at the time, and once made the comment to me, "If my grandpa is right, I'm gonna fry!"
Good news, Larry. You are not going to fry.
Can't say the same for gramps though...
Bill Hohmann
Larry Gott and Mark Armstrong must have a swell time together in prophecy at family reunions.
Dennis: And one more thing. You wrote: " knew dozens of "Armstrongsist" (Is that like Papist?)Ministers who were nothing but compassionate and kind, didn't have a cruel bone in their body and had more hope for people than "vengeance is mine," that the good ol Lord seemed to have in store for mankind."
I think you should seriously consider that both WCG ministers and lay members behaved differently around you because you were a minister. To those of us who were lay members, this observation is a cliche. To you as an ex-minister, it is probably "new truth".
-- Neo
"At best it's game-playing by a bunch of hopeless yobbos splashing around in a very small pond."
Gavin, that line made my day.
I hope that "W" the member who supposedly received the accidentally sent email understands some of the many games that are played in COG circles.
Back in the old WCG, certain privlidged and deliberate disinformation would be released in limited fashions to a few select people. This acted as a sort of "loyalty test" that could be tracked. If the information ended up being spread, or sent to the old Ambassador Report etc., then the leak sources could be indentified and plugged.
Perhaps Weinland and his cronies are not that swift. Armstrong, Rader and his minions loved to play "secret agent", using tapped phones, sound bugs, and secretive video taping. More fun than an old episode of "Man From Uncle" or even "Get Smart"!
"W" would be wise to ask the question on why or how he supposedly got on to an internal email list.
Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA
Neo noted:
"To those of us who were lay members, this observation is a cliche. To you as an ex-minister, it is probably "new truth".
Oh I'm not as stupid as having been a pastor would lead you to think....
I knew ministers and members, of course, who acted disingenuous around each other in the "supposed to be mode," I knew them in the Presbyterian church as well growing up. Human stuff
However, in my personal one on one, minister and member experience, I gave little impression you could be anything but yourself and was not taken as much of a threat. I've had too many teens now adult and adults no older, write and tell me that's how it was for them in our friendship in the church to think otherwise. Four have called to tell me they were gay because they remember talks way back about such things and I knew their circumstances well.
NOT growing up WCG but rather Orthodox Dutch Calvinist and being the son of a dad with common sense helped my specific kind of being a minister in WCG.
I"m entitled to my own experience and just as we all are.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it :)
Peace
Neo noted:
"To those of us who were lay members, this observation is a cliche. To you as an ex-minister, it is probably "new truth".
Oh I'm not as stupid as having been a pastor would lead you to think....
I knew ministers and members, of course, who acted disingenuous around each other in the "supposed to be mode," I knew them in the Presbyterian church as well growing up. Human stuff
However, in my personal one on one, minister and member experience, I gave little impression you could be anything but yourself and was not taken as much of a threat. I've had too many teens now adult and adults no older, write and tell me that's how it was for them in our friendship in the church to think otherwise. Four have called to tell me they were gay because they remember talks way back about such things and I knew their circumstances well.
NOT growing up WCG but rather Orthodox Dutch Calvinist and being the son of a dad with common sense helped my specific kind of being a minister in WCG.
I"m entitled to my own experience and just as we all are.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it :)
Peace
Bill does raise some interesting points; however, it must be said that Weinland and his crew are not the brightest light-bulbs in the bunch, when it comes to tech-savviness.
Either that, or one of "the select few" finally realized the RonCo prophecy ship hit the iceberg three months ago, and decided to start spreading the word in the only way they knew how.
"w", for their part, claims to be a "liberal" member, and seems to be a fence-sitter with regards to the prophecies (and will not answer pointed questions about the prophecies that have already failed).
When asked about the slight change in the RCC pontiff that only church members were supposed to be able to see, that was supposed to demonstrate powerful Satanic influence over the Pope on April 17th, "w" reponded:
"I have not seen the Pope change in any form or fashion since April 17th."
If the leak is true or false, a sign of times to come or pure disinformation, no matter which way you slice it, the church smells fishy.
After all it means that either A) They have members who are disloyal or B) The elders are playing games or C) The prophecies were false all along and the ministry knew this.
None it is very palatable behaviour for "god's true church", now is it?
That fellow sure does have a "Herb-esque" look to him.
And as far as family members accepting him at family reunions, that concept is very Twilight-Zone-ish.
Maybe they could wear big stick-on tags that say things like "GTA's bastard son", and "GTA's bastard daughter", and "I like pork chops", or, "pork chops are of Satan!", or "you will die a horrible death if you don't agree with me"
What a dandy picnic.
Pass the potato salad, please!
The kid who wouldn't fish. Would that have been Dick Armstrong Junior, the stepson of Ben Chapman? He was a teen in the late 1960s and early 1970s.
And hi, Bill H, I remember you and Larry. I can recall how Larry would say things we could never get away with.
Tom Mathews
Dennis: And it is your "own experience." No doubt your experience of WCG and Armstrongism was very different from what most of us know. It was a sweet deal for people who like power and had big ego.
I remember Dickie Armstrong, one of my distant relatives. When I knew him he was a chubby blonde kid and a real problem. Kinda took the edge off of all that romantic stuff about Richard David and is wife and his death, etc.
-- Neo
Mark your calendars:
"But whether that specific “prophecy” is real or not, the truth is that I will speculate that if Barack Obama is President of the United States after 2012, that it is certainly possible that the destruction (including invasion by the rising European Beast power) will happen in the 2013-2017 time frame."
COGwriter
the bible says that we will be overrun by our enemies.
look around and you will see it happening already.
forget about a military invasion from europe, britian, australia, canada, israel, and usa are already being overrun.
when you look at what obama & clinton stand for, they can be considered an enemy as well. (and mccain too, for that matter)
Neo noted:
"No doubt your experience of WCG and Armstrongism was very different from what most of us know. It was a sweet deal for people who like power and had big ego."
I know that's right. In my past comment I simply meant that I felt I knew a number of guys like myself that would never have used the word "sweet deal" in their job description.
I always laughed when I heard of those that had a power thing. Dave Pack comes to mind. Big fish, very small pond.
One thing is "disturbing" or at least intriguing to me and that is that I seem to be the only former full time, church pastoring,WCG minister on AW, ever. I suspect there are some annon. types here, but to date, I have yet to see a full time, name recognizable minister join me here.
I did go on the Painful Truth chat room for two weeks once as an invitation and learned a lot...whew! :) John B, the webmeister over there, and I have become pretty good phone friends and of course, there is Mr. KScribe!
Bob Thiel's Obama is the Beast of Kenyan Prophecy ("though it might be made up.") schtick is silly. He's even onto the Mayans now.
I guess a LCGer just can't have a day without prophecy comes alive.
I think Bob needs to write an article on the Obama May-kenyan , and how they relate to the Book of Revelation, Prophecies. Throw in the Chinese symbols for it all just for pfun.
Let's face it, wer're doomed.
Hillary is the woman that God said would rule over us.
Obama is the foreigner that will rule over us
McCain is the Ancient of Days, that will rule over us.
Bush is the smirking chimp that caused it all when he broke out of the lab......
Cheney is the Reptilian that orchestrates it all.
Even so...someone sane come quickly
"...when you look at what obama & clinton stand for, they can be considered an enemy as well. (and mccain too, for that matter)"
If elected, Ron Paul will circumvent even the Great Tribulation!
The Apostate Paul
He's the antiherbert !
In the late 1400's AD, Columbus and his crew discovered that Native Americans were already here! Shortly thereafter, colonists from Europe arrived to disrupt the sovereignty of the indiginous peoples, and to transform the continent into the melting pot which has become home to those of us who live in the USA. This process was not dominated by a certain tribe thought to be British, as there were colonists from many of the nations from the European continent, and Scandinavia. Slave traders made sure that representatives from Africa were included in the mix. Though many of the colonists came to the "new" land for other reasons, some came for religious freedom which they craved, following the Protestant Reformation, and they made sure that many of the foundational principles by which the country was governed were based on both the Magna Carta, and Reformation era Christianity. Seventh day Sabbatarians were a statistical anomaly, negligible in terms of percentage of population, and influence.
This nation has become the most "blessed" or naturally endowed nation in the history of mankind, to the chagrin of those who would attribute blessings to the keeping of Old Covenant days and practices.
Since Africans were an integral part of the founding of the nation, they can hardly be considered to be "the strangers within thy gates", unless one assumes a totally Anglo-centric point of view, blocking out the presence and contributions of all other members of the melting pot.
While I would much prefer the first African American president to be from the conservative side of the political spectrum, I believe it is ridiculous, myopic, uninformed, and ignorant to point to the election of any president from a non-Anglo ethnic group, and to label that event as a sign of the end times. This is precisely the type of thinking that often makes Christians appear to be stupid.
BB
We're a very "blessed" nation, but there are any number of others that living in would be more conducive to spiritual growth and staying out of everyones business as the Government (Bush) searches for more ways to be the worst.
"Hillary is the woman that God said would rule over us."
No doubt the US would be doomed, in the same way the UK was in the 1980's, with Margaret Thatcher as Prime Minister. (Probably more of a man than most of the men that came after her).
Of course the 'House of Isreal' has had a female on the throne these last 56 years in the form of Elizabeth II, clearly showing it's downfall.
Queen Victoria sat on that same throne for 64 years at the height of the British Empire.
Just shows how terrible these women are - they should be banned!!!
I'll take Matriarchy over Patriarchy any day!
Goddess to her subjects:
"Slay all the ministers and priests. But spare the massage therapist. Send him to me and leve us be."
:)
I keep looking for Prophet Ronald on Haaretz and the Jerusalem Post. Nothing. This was supposed to be a very big deal with global impact. Is something wrong? Maybe after Passover?
Passover has long since passed, thankfully with no ill effects to either the members or the ministry of Weinland's sect. (Except for the tithe money of course.)
The beginning of the beginning of the end was supposed to be "by Pentecost or July". Now it is looking like the the 45-90 day "window" (which, it must be noted, was being expanded to a six - to twelve-month timeframe by Australian evangelist Matthews, as early as March 18th) is "the day after Pentecost".
The Mike McConnell interview, which Weinland does NOT have posted on the church's site, for obvious reasons, states that the subsequent trumpets to the first one (Which is still blowing mind you----hear that?) will all take place in one day. Which is why Weinland wouldn't post the McConnell interview, because that's just one more thing he can be held accountable for.
It will be very interesting indeed, to see what the topic of this week's sermon is---and exactly who gives it, and from where.
RW's coming on the scene as Chief Spokesman for the TW's was a secret coming. You have all grievously literalized all Witness Weinland has written or said.
You all see as carnal men, who can only take things at face value and literally. Does not the scripture itself tell you that "these things are spiritually discerned."
You did not hear the trumpets because,"to you it is not given to understand the mysteries of the Kingdom of God." If your mind is not in tuned with what Witness Weinland has to say, of course you aren't going to understand.
for as it also says,
"as for their ears, they have closed them and will not hear."
and in another place,
"Death shall them seize, alive they shall go down to the pit for their mockery and shall they be smitten, afflicted by God and so very sorry."
Even in the Book of Mormon it says of Witness Weinland,
"And Moroni blew the trumpet. Silent it was and mere waves of possibility for those that could not hear. But for the saints did the wave function collapse, hearing was heard and the wise understood."
So it is even unto this day!
Read your Bibles for your own sakes!
In response to the last anonymous poster, I have to tell you that I most definitely have a relationship with God. That does not give me "special" understanding of the "secret" meanings of the scriptures that your group claims to possess, but my relationship with God does give me guidance and discernment. Believe me when I tell you, the man you are following is simply "playing a game of Bible".
The tribulation described in Revelation, and encapsulated by Jesus Christ in the gospels is not going to be an event that is only spiritually perceived. If it becomes necessary, it will be the most highly visible and horrifying series of events in the entire history of mankind. It isn't something which will be masked or made invisible to people who lack understanding!
Take my word for it, the two witnesses will NEVER, EVER, EVER come from any part of the Armstrong movement. There is no evidence that God was working to reveal His prophecies to HWA or his disciples, and all of the false prophecies over the years, based on the false precepts of British Israelism, have failed miserably. That is failure. Not delay.
I believe that when the two witnesses do appear, organized religion (including the Armstrong splinters) will totally reject them, just as organized religion rejected Jesus Christ.
Believe me, if your leader were a prophet, inspired by God, you would not need to be making any excuses for him!
BB
P.S.
When you start quoting the Book of Mormon as support for your religious theories, you display the cultic, and fragile nature of your beliefs.
BB
Behold, after Ronnie's bluster about his need to "call forth" cancers upon those who "mock" him(and how their deaths will be drawn out and agonizing), I can't help but notice that he's a total jerk-off, and he's not much different than any other paranoid cultmeisters (herbie, anyone?) who claim they know someone(God!) who is their buddy and will beat up their critics.
It's like a stupid juvenile schoolyard mindset.
Has the Department of Homeland Security been alerted to his bullcrap?
By the way Bob, I took the comment that included Mormon stuff as jest. I could be wrong though!
I'm gonna have some Moroni Salad for lunch.
twas in jest....no such scriptures.
I hate to say it, Mel, but the problem is that there are so many abyssmally stupid things coming out of the Armstrong movement in general, that it is almost impossible to post something satirical, or in jest, and have it be recognized as being tongue in cheek.
You're with me on another forum, and get to see the almost weekly barrage of insane stuff that our buddy PG-10 posts from the original WCG Yahoo group, and other sources. It's only a matter of time before one the stricter groups announces that they have located an HWA bowel movement for their congregation to venerate!
In a way, this latest exchange over the satire augments the point which I was trying to make, which was that Armstrongism is just so totally ridiculous that nothing coming from that movement (and I don't mean the one I've mentioned above!) has any credibility. These folks could not be used to convey any type of serious warning to the world, because over the years they have destroyed and tarnished their own credibility.
BB
Anonymous said: "You all see as carnal men, who can only take things at face value and literally. Does not the scripture itself tell you that these things are spiritually discerned."
MY COMMENT - Sounds like the moron Tom Mahan has returned anonymously to AW. Was that you Tom having fun with us again?
And speaking of Tom, did his picture ever show up on the internet as he promised?
Richard
I'm tending to think that rather than April 2008 being the beginning of RW's One Witness plus One Supporter Makes Two Witnesses ministry, it is the beginning of the end.
On another recent posting some comments were made about Eckhart Tolle and his books, The Power of Now and The New Earth. I personally resonate with Tolle, but that's me.
However, he does bring up one concept that is very much a part of why AW flourishes at times, and we, myself included, keep coming back.
It is his understanding of the "pain body" that resides in us all. I'll let him define it.
:The pain body is the semiautonomous energy (not a being as Rick Ross screws up) that lives within most human beings, an entity made up emotions. (Emotions are the body's reaction to the mind)...Any emotionally painful experience can be used as food by the painbody. That's why it thrives on negative thinking as well as drama in relationships. The pain body is an addiction to unhappiness...The voice in your head will be telling sad, anxious, or angry stories about yourelf or your life, about other people, about past,future or imaginary events. The voice will be blaming, accusing, complaining, imagining. You become identified with whatever the voice says and at that moment your addiction to unhappiness has set in....If it sounds like you have a psychic parasite, that's exactly what it is."
Makes sense to me and that is my personal experience with all things from WCG to Ron Weinland.
Sooner or later I'll have to kill off the pain body and let it be. I guess the only other choice is to keep feeding it.
Tolle is well worth reading but many label it "new age" when in fact it is just how the mind works, Bible views of the mind (which are precious few since in the Bible, one would hardly know there was a brain or emotions) nothwithstanding.
Dennis and all:
I tend to agree. There is a physic force "sucking off of us". It loves the drama, the ego, the hate, the bitterness, and pride of ourselves.
Some could call it the Devil and his demons, enjoying the vicarious experience thru us, as I believe.
Nonetheless, the movie "The Matrix" is probably a good analogy. Giant sick flies, sucking off of our life force, while we live a drama of illusion.
Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA
Luss noted:
"while we live a drama of illusion.'
I got my aging eyes examined yesterday for glasses and got to chatting with doc about the fact that the eyes don't really "see."
He said, "oh,you understand that!"
I asked him if it's true that our seeing is all in our head and we never really "see" what's out there. He said, "Of course, what we think is out there is a movie playing in our mind."
I said, "In the dark?"
He said, "Yes, in the dark..."
I said, "Who is watching the movie in our heads we think is our outer world, in the dark."
He laughed, held up his hands and said, "too much information!"
I asked him if the world was really silent until the waves of sound hit our ears.
He said, "Yes, of course, the world is silent. The sound comes after it is turned from waves to signals to sound."
I said, "Some think that the light of our world also only occurs after "light" enters the mind and that the world is both silent and dark."
We just looked at each other and he said, "here's your perscription"
:)
Dennis, if Tolle has hit upon "how the mind works", are scientists educated in neuroscience now looking to Tolle to amazing revelations as to how the mind really works?
Or do they just not have an "open mind"?
I'm rather teasing, but please still show how his stuff is different from other new age gurus that SEEM to teach codswallop so similar to his, if you can.
and people still think that the 2 witnessess are 2 individual human beings?????
and by the way, God's promise was unconditional, so the USA & UK could have been buddists for all that matter, and they still would have been the great nations that they were....(come to think of it, they might as well have been buddists, considering their customs of Sunday,Christmas,Easter, etc., and they became great in spite of that)
Perhaps I mistated it. Tolle has not hit on anything new. He just explains how we all know we think and do really well. When I say how we think, I mean how our emotions get the best of us or how we spin our minds in the past and get depressed, or angry over it, or spin our thoughts in to the "future" and get anxious. We all know we do this and how it feels. He just puts it all down nicely in readable form to where one would generally find them saying, "isn't that the truth. That's what I do alright."
Neuroscience is not the topic. Perhaps I meant, how we worry, stay angry, get pitiful, get anxious or keep drudging up the past as if that changes it.
He also talks a lot about "my story." We all have a story and all stories are just events that play out. Any number of things could have changed the story from what it turned out to be. For example, if I had not gone to Idaho for a summer visit to my sisters at 14 years old and gone to a WCG service, my story may have been different. Or if my grandparents had not cancelled their place on the Titanic in April of 1912 until June, my story may have been different. (They actually did that.)
But the point is that the real me is not my story. Stories change. The me that is me merely can adapt to various stories of a life.
One interesting thing to me is that concerning "counseling." When we go to a counselor, we are counseling in our story. We are telling our story. Getting help with our story. Pissed at our story. All counseling is an attempt to deal with "our story." But we are bigger than our story and somehow that has been a relief to me. Counseling can be endless because the story of our drama and lives, feelings and emotions can be endless..the pain body. We are counseling the pain body. But I am not my pain body.
Big topic. Some would also say much of the Bible and the effect it has on humans is "codswallop" Now that's a great word!!!
Read the Power of Now and see what you think. It's a book where you read a sentence and have to stop and say, "yeah..that's how it seems to be."
However, I have also freed myself from labeling everything not Bible as "new age," "demonic" or "just human reasoning," and this may make more sense to me than others depending on where in their story
they are stuck or passing through.
PS Whenever someone tells you "you are just using human reasoning," ask them what kind they use? :)
Sorry Dennis---I'm more inclined towards Bill's/The Matrix's Gnostic analogy, than that "painbody" stuff.
It actually reminds me, in a not-so-subtle way, of the Harlan Ellison story "Paingod" (wherein this awful, terrible, turgid and horrific vale of tears, was actually paradise, compared to when the veil was lifted).
But hey, whatever works for you. The anecdote of your visit to the eye doc certainly resonated with me, and moreso than any of Tolle's stuff! :-)
Isnt it nice we don't have to all agree and ask each other, "soooo, how did you come into the truth?"
:)
BTW WW....you put together a very helpful and up to date site and I read it often. I'm sure someone can use it as a source for their PHD in aberrant relgious personalities.
dd
Regarding Tolle: Every time I walk in a bookstore I see a display of his books. Some kind of movement must be starting.
How does the "pain body" differ from conscience? Conscience can have a self-accusatory facet. It almost sounds like "pain body" might be a conscience that has been damaged.
The anecdote on how we see is interesting. I do not believe that we can incontrovertibly demonstrate that an objective environment exists. Our environment might be entirely subjective. What is it that we really see? Objects? Or a data feed - like in the movie "The Matrix"? If our environment is entirely subjective, that would not conflict with the Bible, that I can see.
-- Neo
"Regarding Tolle: Every time I walk in a bookstore I see a display of his books. Some kind of movement must be starting."
I think it's more of a recognition that how he explains what we kind of know by our experiences is correct. It's not new. It's just well explained. Probably one of the most unassuming human beings you'll ever meet.
Painbody is not the conscience. The conscience is the template we compare our rightness and wrongness too based on many factors, including religion of course. What stimulates one conscience may not another and that's not just because they "are hard of heart," "past feeling" or seeds on hard ground.
Well, Dennis, I'm happy to have "painbody"...I think, lol!
Perhaps that's me n' me ego's thing in what makes me human.
I suppose we'll disagree on whether Tolle is "new-age".
It's cool if you don't want to answer questions about Tolle's theories regarding the ego are. I'm glad you're here and I do respect much of what you write regarding the WCG.
I hope you understand that my perspective comes from having become immersed in new age anti-ego theories, from a variety of sources, for quite a few years in my post WCG drifting, before I finally snapped out out of it due to seeing severe damage done from Landmark, Scientology, and a host of other psycho-babbling pseudo-scientific entities.
I'll take my "reactive" mind any day, compared to what those types of entities create.
In case anyone hasn't seen the Byron Katie new-age codswallop I posted in the other thread:
part 1
and
part 2
I have no problem feeling outraged by that. In fact I think it's healthy that I do, even if someone wants to do some kind of "painbody" label to try to denigrate my feelings about it.
Hi Mel,
It's not that I don't want to answer questions about ego, it's just a big topic and I think Tolle covers it well in his books. Endless topic for a posting I would imagine.
Non Christian teachers are as diverse as Christian ministers. Every topic has it's Weinlands, Packs, Flurrys and Tkaches. It's endless.
Codswallop...still a great term. See you taught me something new!
:)
And if my ego doesn'want to explain itself to your painbody, well...that's my painbody's business
:)
Ha ha!
Yeah, I heard the term "codswallop" a few years back on a different board from a cheeky poster, and immediately liked it.
Sounds like stinky fish parts or something.
I know that when people hear the term "ego" they think of the negative connotation.
I am using the term as a "healthy sense of self" which I see as a good thing. I am very familiar with new-age gurus using it to manipulate, as guru Cohen has said, something that one must get rid of, and the "source of all evil"
I mean, sure it makes sense that if one's beliefs and feelings are affecting one's self in a harmful manner, that there is some adjustment due for the sake of one's well-being.
But, these new age gurus say ego must be gotten rid of, and is bad, and that is a hugely manipulative tool.
Did you see that Byron Katie video? What a tool, she is so manipulative and if she believes what she says she has her head up her ass big time. That's the kind of new age horse-hockey that I object to.
And I wouldn't object so strongly if not for the psychological(and other types of) damage I've seen in so many people from it.
Ideas of any kind can be damaging. Perhaps the happiest times were when Neanderthals had no consciousness of anything but the present moment. No past memories registered and a future of planning was nothing.
Not changing your stone tools for 200,000 years would indicate a certain "bliss" associated with being totally unconscious..ha.
It's interesting to see that in the evolution of hominids, each new type lasted about half as long as the previous one. That puts humans as lasting about 100,000 years, which is almost about it at this point.
Did n't watch Katie. On dumb dialup at the moment. My wireless neighbor moved! :)
Dennis noted: I got my aging eyes examined yesterday for glasses and got to chatting with doc about the fact that the eyes don't really "see."
He said, "oh,you understand that!"
I asked him if it's true that our seeing is all in our head and we never really "see" what's out there. He said, "Of course, what we think is out there is a movie playing in our mind."
I said, "In the dark?"
He said, "Yes, in the dark..."
I said, "Who is watching the movie in our heads we think is our outer world, in the dark."
He laughed, held up his hands and said, "too much information!"
I asked him if the world was really silent until the waves of sound hit our ears.
He said, "Yes, of course, the world is silent. The sound comes after it is turned from waves to signals to sound."
I said, "Some think that the light of our world also only occurs after "light" enters the mind and that the world is both silent and dark."
...
Dennis,
There is nothing wrong with your silent movie. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are now controlling the transmission. We control the horizontal, and the vertical. We can deluge you with a thousand channels or expand one single image to hdtv clarity - and beyond. We can shape your vision to anything our imagination can conceive. For the next half-hour, the Church of God will control all that you see and hear. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the deepest inner mind to the outer limits.
There is a fifth internal dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is realm as vast as space, and as timeless, as internal infinity. It is the middle ground between internal light and shadow; between science and superstition; and it lies between the pit of man's fear, and the summit of his knowledge. These are dimensions of the internal imagination... it is an area which we call... Church of God - Twilight Zone.
Imaging
HOLY CRAP!
Just about to listen to some YouTube music vids, and I saw there is A PART THREE! of new-age nutjob Byron Katie's video. In this one she tries to convince the lady that she would be best off if she LOOKS A SHOOTER IN THE FACE AND THANK HIM FOR SHOOTING HER!
Not photography. Bullets that would kill her.
This is sooooo like the manipulations that Landmark Education Corporation "leaders"(who put on an expensive brainwashing weekend called the "Landmark Forum") do.
Mel,
The "Twilight Zone Church of God" broke my brain. I hope you're happy. ;-)
I am.
It was merely a pretense to promote potato salad.
And in case Dennis or others are curious, the "horse-hockey" phrase comes from M*A*S*H, and Colonel Potter mentioned it a few times.
He had a horse named "Sophie" which was, oddly, a "him"
Go figure!
WW, in contemporary Jewish terminology, this coming Sunday is the last day of Passover. It's only "long gone" to certain Christian sects who calculate and observe the festival in their own ways. For Jewry, Passover is either 7 or 8 days long, being 7 days long in Israel only.
"Passover followed by the Days of Unleavened Bread" is a foreign expression -- and concoction -- not observed quite like that in Jewry.
Passover lambs weren't valid sacrifices unless the homes of those who offered them were already unleavened at the time of slaughter. Today, homes are completely unleavened by nightfall on the 14th, at which time relevant rituals are observed.
For today's Seder on the 15th, Jewish homes have been free of chametz since the preceding evening. Outside Israel events of Passover now extend from the evening of the 14th through the 22nd of Nissan (Aviv), although meticulous scouring of chametz from Jewish homes begins much earlier.
Outside Israel this year the last day of Passover (Pesach) will be Sunday, April 27. This information is available on numerous websites.
Dennis,
I'm sure their are many other COGers out there like myself who read this blog often and are trying to find a an exit to this strange little ACOG world we're stuck in.
Even if a person wakes up one day and recognizes they are in an off the wall cult it is still hard to leave. The knowlege that all current friendships and family relationships will be devastated, even if they are built on a twisted foundation, is a tough one.
My point is simple: For some time I've read your posts here and noticed their lack of animosity and genuine thoughtfullness. Believe it or not, your posts have helped me immensely in planning an exit strategy.
Thanks.
Just ordered Tolle's "The power of Now" on Amazon :)
Re: "Passover is 7 days long". So you mean they cherry-picked that too? Yeah why am I not surprised..... :-(
Uh by the above comment I mean "Armstrong and company" when I say "they".
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