Dear David C. Pack
Congratulations in being the early leader in the AW leadership poll.
As you may - or may not - know, we're asking which of six self anointed Church of God bosses will most rapidly disappear into the mists of obscurity over the next 50 years.
It seems, Apostle Pack, that you're top of the pops when it comes to "the forgettability factor." Despite your hugely significant role as God's Number One bloke, singled out by the Big Guy Himself, most AW readers think you're dog tucker.
Heck Dave, I voted for you myself!
Y'know Dave, I think you deserve a PR makeover among the godless skeptics that frequent sites like AW, and I'd like to offer my services. If you need a quality reference, I'll forward Bob Thiel's email address.
AW could really put together a truly unique marketing package to upscale your X-factor. Need I remind you that it was AW that launched the massively influential makeover for Roderick C. Meredith that forever associated him with the affectionately respectful pet-name "Spanky"? And you know where the reverent honorific "Packatollah" came from, right? Consider it a free sample.
Dave, my heart is bleeding to see you so embarrassingly under-rated. I may even be able to persuade Dennis and Doug to sub-contract on the project.
Give me a call, we'll do lunch (no ham and you're paying) and I'll run some rather large figures by you.
My charges are totally unreasonable.
Meantime, as a gesture of goodwill, I'm encouraging all AW readers (think of them as prospective RCG tithers) to launch an in-depth study of your God-given status by clicking over to Gary Scott's excellent XCG blog and listening to your authentic, spirit-inspired words via audio clip.
But don't sign up with Gary before talking with me. Whatever he charges - I'll double!
And that's a promise.
49 comments:
I met him at the candy store.
He turned around and smiled at me.
You get the picture?
Yes, we see!
That's when I fell for the leader of the pack.
My folks were always putting him down, down, down.
They said he came from the wrong side of town.
Whatcha mean when ya say that he came from the wrong side of town?
They told me he was bad.
But I knew he was sad.
That's why I fell for the leader of the pack!
Perhaps a New Hymn for the Brethren to sing:
Remember when you said you'd stay and
I got on my knees and begged you
please to leave because we'd go berserk?
Well,You stayed here anyhow and then the
Days got worse and worse and now you
See we've gone completely out of our minds.
And,
They're coming to take us away, ha-haaa.
They're coming to take us away, ho ho, he he, ha ha,
To the funny farm, where life is beautiful all the time
And I'll be happy to see those nice young
Men in their clean white coats and
They're coming to take us away, ha-haaa!
You thought it was a joke and so you
preached, you preached!
When I had said that
preaching here would make us flip our lids - right?
You know you preached, I heard you preach,
You laughed, you laughed and laughed, and then you
stayed and preached, but now you know we're completely utterly mad.
And,
They're coming to take us away, ha-haaa.
They're coming to take us away, ho ho, he he , ha ha,
To the happy home with trees and flowers and chirping birds
And basket weavers who sit and smile
And twiddle their thumbs and toes And they're coming to take us away, ha-haaa!
I'm sorry. I'm drawing a circle around myself even as I write.
When I read the kind of satire Gavin authored, I always feel an undercurrent of uneasiness. I know that what we make light of has a really very dark underside.
I feel sorry for the followers of Pack, the people living in the umbra of his heretical theology where no light is permitted to enter.
These various Armstrongite leaders now, in my mind, cut comic figures. It is disturbing to realize that their followers take them deadly seriously and sanctimoniously would never permit themselves to be exposed to information that might help them to get Pack, et al, in perspective. I wish their followers, by some miracle, could read Gavin's satire and laugh aloud instead of reacting with smarmy outrage.
And it is a bizarre experience for me as an observer of the scene. This fanatical devotion of Armstrongites to their leaders is like discovering, on some dark and moonless night, that your neighbor is in his backyard worshipping, with unbridled zeal, Donald Duck.
You don't know whether to laugh or cry.
-- Neo
I always ask myself, who among these "leaders" would I respect if they were bikers? None of them pass muster. Now, GTA in his prime, I would have ridden with any day of the week. Same way with David Jon Hill. But there's some material floating around on the internet to the affect that Pack was even afraid to go into some heavy neighborhoods in the major cities to visit some of the brethren who were his charges. I can understand a minister not wanting to get a concealed carry permit, but this dude, as a minister, by generally accepted standards, would normally have had a strong faith that he had God's protection, especially while he was doing "God's work".
Yep, I could see Simon Peter, and Jesus on choppers burning up the highway between Nazareth and Galilee, but the ACOG dudes are all about outward show, with no deep underlying substance. Right out of the Wizard of Oz!
BB
Pore ole Dave, he don't even take a good picture even if it is posed.
I wonder what his next job will be? Roofing contractor comes to mind (lots of con-men in that field).
I've got it! Used car (er, I mean previously owned auto) salesman. Now that would be memorable!
It is amazing to me how many hangers on there are. Hundred of small insignificant groups, each thinking they are all that's left I suppose. There must be a core of humans in any government or organization, who, no matter what happens, just can't give it up. The images of falling away, loss of this or that, not being protected or blessed or right must just be too strong to give it up and grow out of mistakes or misinformation.
What kind of world might it be if we all just gave up our beliefs and had a picnic?
What kind of world might it be if we all just gave up our beliefs and had a picnic?
With jugs of wine?
Winebibbers and gluttons.
Say, isn't that Jesus over there with the mustard? And didn't we start with only 5 Hebrew National hotdogs and now there are 5,000?
Too bad the churches of God couldn't join our picnic. They are too busy getting ready for the upcoming Day of Atonement.
It is said that the wise are judged by the quality of their picnics.
- or -
It is better to be picnicking rather than nit picking.
An analysis of their '06 FOT pictorial reveals around 750 US members and another 150 outside the USA
http://www.thercg.org/2006-fot-pictorial.pdf
The RCG site features the Brit-Israel booklet in the #1 spot (where it rightly belongs in Armstrong theology)--But the UCG has its Brit-Israel book way, way down near the bottom !
Which of these HWA-loyalist sects, do you think, wants this embarrassing doctrine to quietly sink into obscurity ?
Neotherm said...
When I read the kind of satire Gavin authored, I always feel an undercurrent of uneasiness. I know that what we make light of has a really very dark underside.
Sometimes laughter is the best form of sunshine.
Anonymous said...
What kind of world might it be if we all just gave up our beliefs and had a picnic?
AMEN Brotha! Can I get a witness?
In the movie Dogma, Chris Rock makes the statement "people shouldn't have beliefs about God, they should have ideas about God.
Nobody gets killed over an idea, but lots of people die over beliefs!"
Can you imagine sitting in a "counseling" with Dave looking back at you like that?
"Soooooo, it has come to my attention you have questions about my being the End Time Apostle....."
The picture fairly screams:
Here at the law offices of Pack and Restored, we'll make certain you get the settlement you deserve without waiting and a lot of red tape.
Call the law offices of Pack and Restored now.
Pack's main Feast Site is on the Canadian border - actually in Niagra, Canada, so half the most populous Feast Site are probably Canadians. Membership seems strong in foreign locations (Philippines also) where HWA was less discredited (more isolation, poorer communications).
Either way Dave will take their contributions to fund his Cadillac - or maybe he drives a PACKARD ?
# of Canadian members ? Divide income (800k)by 2-3k = 300-400.
I found this formula checked out for tithing WCG.
Total RCG ~ 1000 ?
"Can you imagine sitting in a "counseling" with Dave looking back at you like that?"
Perish the thought!!!!!!
Two thoughty thoughts while I’m feeling thoughtful.
“An analysis of their '06 FOT pictorial reveals around 750 US members and another 150 outside the USA”
When I did my own analysis of this, I came up with exactly the same number. (Perhaps you are citing my number.) But photographic analysis is kind of a sketchy science. Pack wasn’t really trying to show his full membership, but rather paint a panorama of the demographic spread of the RCG—hence the numerous deceptive shots of young folks. Or he just may have been trying to make the prettiest brochure he could, given that he, like so many COGS, is primarily in the vacation planning business.
My best guess is that there are about 600 adults in RCG, 60% over 55 years of age and more than half of them are in Canada. This somewhat pins up with the previously disclosed total RCG income of 1.7 million per year. How much of this is tithes is unknown. RCG has made a push to collect gifts from estates. I fear as time goes on estate fleecing and something even more proactive may become the mainstay of RCG’s finances.
Moreover, I have some very grave concerns about the sect going forward. Pack is showing signs of actually really and truly losing his marbles.
“The picture fairly screams:
Here at the law offices of Pack and Restored, we'll make certain you get the settlement you deserve without waiting and a lot of red tape.
Call the law offices of Pack and Restored now.”
As it should happen, RCG’s offices are in a law office. The RCG shares its suite with a law firm. All of the common areas are in fact dual-purpose. If you will note in all of the pictures of Pack’s private digs at Church HQ, none of the rooms have any windows. This is because Pack is running RCG out of what are essentially store rooms and conference areas. Only his main “church” area has a window. One wonders the function this space has when not in use.
I would really have to see it up close and in person to be sure. Another explanation for the ‘no windows in photographs’ is that Dave and his staff are inept photographers. They won’t take a photo with glass in the frame because of Flash effects. This explanation assumes they are luddite morons. So I can’t discount it.
Mark Lax
Thoughty Person
Dear Gavin,
Thank you for posting the name of David C.Pack. Your blog makes him popular and it is free.
Some people will believe at you and some would not. Those who are wise will give a second thought before believing.
Most who will believe not are the true Christians who do not believe in rumors and hate rumors mongers like you and Gary.
I may call you G&G for short, which means Gary and Gavin.
Thank you again for making Mr. Pack popular. Please continue to do your hard work to excite the interest of others.
James Andrade
Philippines
We've heard from the Philippines.
Can Nigeria be far behind?
It's amazing how people cling to their superstition to believe in false prophets and frauds.
Why is it mandatory to commit idolatry, worshiping a man who supplants God?
The ignorant are so confident in their cult heroes for no particularly good reason: The simpletons don't have the smallest grasp on reality.
Why do people so hate the facts?
James Andrade, forget David Pack: Wade Ewart Cox and the CCg is the only one with the real truth. Check it out and you'll see.
"Thank you again for making Mr. Pack popular."
Making the a man popular is what religion gone nuts is all about, so you're welcome.
David Pack came out of Global founded by Roderick Meredith.
Perhaps, Mr. Andrade, you need to get back to the very source of the very WORK of God to attend Living University and rejoin the LCG, instead of participating with one of the protesting daughters for the faith once delivered.
Don't you feel silly following a man with a smaller following? Don't you feel empty being with a loser instead of a winner? Mr. Pack doesn't even have a college or university. Why would you go with such a failure?
Stop being a hero worshiping idolater and return to the faith once delivered.
Get back on track with God's Work and stop following heresy!
"Thank you again for making Mr. Pack popular."
Hasn't happened.
Isn't going to happen.
Not happening.
Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear or a gold toilet out of pcv tubing: No one can make anything out of David Pack, least of all, popular, except for people with extremely distorted perception -- the mental.
Mr. Andrade, is it painful to be so stupid?
From "Dave Pack"
"I don't think I have ever quite given a sermon like this before. I alluded to it once in the fall of '89 but no one was listening. Brethren, I am popular. I hold that title. I am the overarching reason and example of what being popular for Christ (I just can't bring myself to use the word 'Jesus') is all about. I am...well, I just am the great I am. Really, I am.
Again...I hold that office..never would have thought it, didn't know, would never have imagined it. But I accept it though I wish I was just one of you sheep, who simply have to support me. And Brethren, while I just might be both of the Two UNPopular Witnesses...I know at least I will train them. I can't say I look forward to being unpopular, but as long as you spell my name right, it's all good."
Dave can be finacially successful by selling XXXXX made in his own/herbies image.
Go Dave!!!
http://www.eternalimage.net/
James Andrade wrote:
Thank you for posting the name of David C.Pack. Your blog makes him popular and it is free.
James:
Never forget that there were times that Hitler, Stalin, Mao and many others were popular. In fact, these despots are still popular with some even to this day.
Popularity has nothing to do with truth or reality.
Lussenheide
Yesssss, and we also talk about garbage and sewage. I guess that makes those two collections of items "famous", too. But, they are still recognized as being garbage and sewage!
If you're going to be famous, you'd best be famous for a good thing.
BB
Gavin,
Your sincerity is superb.
Once again, you have exceeded the AW criteria for excellence and cynicism.
Seamus
Sooner or later it all boils down to a defective belief system: There are assumptions based on unwarranted premises which position the conned to think that there is no other truth than that which the cult guru tells them. Minds are all mixed up and set so bad that they cannot consider facts and logic because it would undermine the core of their very being -- which they were given by someone else -- and were not careful to check before installation.
This is incredibly bad taste. The man has just lost his wife.
What was in bad taste was the announcement of her death at thercg.org website, where there was no picture of his wife, but there was one of him.
As someone who has proclaimed that his is the only truth in existence and that all those of other churches of God will go into the Lake of Fire if they don't repent and come to him, David Pack has set himself up as one who speaks without understanding and knowledge.
Did not Jesus say, "Let the dead bury their dead"?
Dear Mr. Pack Fans,
I am excited how my comment to Mr. Pack being made popular by Gavin has stirred up a hornet's nest.
It is nice to be called stupid when you are standing firm to what you believe. I believe on fruits, not just empty words. Paul was called a blabber and a fooldespite his enormous contributions to first century Christianity. Jesus was called a deceiver even though He called himself as the Way, the Truth and the Life.
RCG has the most complete of materials of all COGs. From Children Bible Lessons, Bible Stories, Youth Magazines, The Real Truth, The Pillar, numerous booklets,series of articles, basic Christian tools for growth, Bible Correspondence Course,Questions and Answers, etcetera.
May be it is LCG brethren that should reconsider if they are truly following a true leader.
And the anti COGs, well, it is just easy to criticize. But let them try to talk the talk and walk the walk. Let have them write booklets, magazines, articles, bible stories. Let them try to spend their inheritance on the gospel. Let them try to sacrifce their lives, wives, families for the sake of the gospel. Critics are just simply blinds. Blinds could not see, especially those blinds called by the Arch Deceiver.
The worst critics are just simply the blabbers.
Come on. Add more. Make Mr. Pack popular.
James Andrade
Philippines
"I believe on fruits, not just empty words."
What fruits? The man was kicked out (Fired)of a couple other organizations. He Idolizes Herbert W.Armstrong, who in fact was just a man, who like all men had many many faults.
Another "Fruit"....
'Hmm I Guess I'll make myself an Apostle'......
According to the Bible an Apostle is known my signs wonders and miracles.
Dave Pack has done none of these things.
"RCG has the most complete of materials of all COGs"
Your statements reek of Arrogance Pride and Vanity, which is reflective of your human god .
The real God is not concerned with idiotic Arrogant Prideful statements that you and your Leader proclaim.
The Bible says put your trust in NO MAN. I suggesst that you do the same.
Andrade....."Come on. Add more"
OK I will.
"It is nice to be called stupid"
Your statement is reflective of what a Moron might say.....
"I believe on fruits, not just empty words"
Read the prior post in answer to your statement.
"RCG has the most complete of materials of all COGs. From Children Bible Lessons, Bible Stories, Youth Magazines, The Real Truth, The Pillar, numerous booklets,series of articles, basic Christian tools for growth, Bible Correspondence Course,Questions "
Again, the prior post hit it on the head. Vain Boasting. Your statements lack the humility that Christ said that is so necessary for true Christians. Your statements are Pompous, Arrogant, Vain and in my humble opinion Idiotic. The Living Church and the United Church out number Restored my a large margin, and have extensive resourses. Check them out, or arn't you allowed to ??
Why don't you and your human god follow Christ's example of humility instead of the example of Satan the Adversary?
Restored is the organization that "Contends" with the true believers, people with God's Holy Spirit who are not in Restored.....
Restored is the organization that "Accuses" those same people......
Restored is the organization that "resorts to name calling"
Restored is the organization that "Denegrates" by name the leaders of other organizations.
Restored is the organization that Pompously Boasts that Dave Pack is an "Apostle"....(Self Proclaimed)!
Restored boasts that the 2 Witnesses must come from it...... Who says, other than the Self Appointed Apostle? Maybe, just maybe, God will decide when, where, and from what organization, if any, they might come from.
These are the "Fruits" of Dave Pack and the Restored Church of God.
Now my friend, compare them to the example of Jesus Christ. If you don't see the obvious contradictions then there is nothing further to say.
Dear Mr. Pack's Fans,
He, he, he. You are all really blinds. Blinds could not see fruits. You will all fall into the ditch.
But why be anonymous? You cowards. Write your names and show where you belong. Do not hide.
And, if you think you are too good for Mr. Pack,as I said,PRETENDERS, start your your organization-- MINISTRY-- and let us see your mileage. Come on. Try. Write books, booklets, publish magazines. Hire people and pay them. Endure scathing criticism of the most vile things. Spend your life in agonies. All your time, fortunes.Do not eat lunch for years. Work 16 hours a day all year long for years. All for the sake of your beliefs.
Then tell me, I am here. I will be waiting for your you. I will give my comments. And this is my address:jms_andrade@yahoo.com
This address is existing. Perhaps, I could suck and be your depender.
How is that? This is a challenge for all PRETENDERS. Let us say how you FARE. But I think you all could not. In the first place you are all not ordained. Nobody will believe in COGs if you are not ordained. So it means you are all breathing empty air.
But the challenge remains.
James Andrade
Philippines
Evedently you are not too bright.
Read the last two posts before your infantile one. It is a waste of time to talk to an individual who rejects the facts (that were posted).
Again ask yourself if Jesus would approve of your worshiping a man by the name of Pack.(Mr. aside).
Also examine your attitude.
It reeks of hatred and hostilty. Not good qualities my friend.
Your childish outburst proves that you have hit your intellectual peak.
Anyway, re-read the prior two posts about 10 times. Something might sink in. Oh by the way you will find that the "Restored" "Church" is: nether!
"He, he, he. You are all really blinds. Blinds could not see fruits. You will all fall into the ditch."
"Perhaps, I could suck and be your depender."
"Let us say how you FARE."
Quotes from a follower and defender of David Pack............
Sharp, real Sharp......
Andrade ........."Nobody will believe in COGs if you are not ordained. So it means you are all breathing empty air."
Who ordained Dave Pack to the rank of Apostle???
Please elaborate on your expulsion of the phrase "you are all breathing empty air."
I suggest that you do a self examination on your attitude as well as the Godly attribute of Love, even for your enemys. Try following the example of Jesus Christ rather than some false Apostle wannabe.
I will use an already posted statement.....
Mr. Andrade, is it painful to be so stupid?
Nobody will believe in COGs if you are not ordained.
As it turns out, I am ordained. I am not only ordained but I have been ordained and been accepted as an apostle officially by another ordained apostle. It took only a few minutes on the Internet to get ordained, but being raised to the rank of apostle took a little longer.
I'm not joking. I'm really an ordained minister and have been accepted as an accredited apostle by someone else who is an accredited apostle and has the certificate to prove it.
So, as an ordained apostle, I can state with great certainty that David Pack is not an apostle.
Since James Andrade is also not an ordained apostle, he has no credibility whatsoever and cannot be trusted to explain what he cannot possibly understand in his terribly deluded state.
I am an ordained apostle.
I have so spoken and so it shall be.
Dear Mr. Pack Fans,
If Jesus is alive today you will not recognize him becuase of your faulty minds who could not follow the chosen leader of God -- HWA. Who think they are better.
Jesus taught all what the Father had told him to speak yet the Pharisees would not believe him. God even told personally, during Jesus baptism by John,that Jesus was his beloved Son. And Jesus himself claimed he was sent from God and he spoke everything that His Father told him to speak. Despite alll of these the Pharisees would not believe HIM.
Scoffers abound aplenty.
Perhaps, if there is anything Mr. Pack has erred it is his belief in Scriptures what Paul admonished to all Christians to speak the same thing, that there will be no division among you , that we should continue and hold on to the teachings taught us, and we should not be carried on by every wind of doctrines by the cunnings of men.
Jesus followed. The 12 Apostles followed. Mr. Pack followed his leader and does not think he is better. Mr. Pack is faithful to the teachings taught to him by HWA, not as God ,but as his teacher. Like Paul told to Timothy to continue on to what he had been taught.
Mr. Pack has stood on his grounds firm and tall. Strong leaders are known to have plenty of enemies because they would not backdown an inch. Jesus would not back down. So did Paul. So did Jeremiah. And so did all other Apostles. (The original 12 had no Certificates as apostles.)
Now the self-appointed critics were hurt of the words thrown at them. They were throwing these kinds of words. They did not know others were hurt.
If they were true Christians why they just live silently and endure. Why they could not keep their their mouths shut to hurl invectives and be wary of speaking of the things they have no authority to do.
Faithful men are known by their deeds more than their spoken words.
As I said before, if you think you are better, start your own organization. Fight fairly.
James Andrade
Philippines
If they think they are better, let them have their own organization and test their mettles. Perhaps, this way they would know hard it is to be to stand to your beliefs against all odds.These people have no mercy.
If Jesus is alive today you will not recognize him becuase of your faulty minds who could not follow the chosen leader of God -- HWA. Who think they are better.
Speaking of cognitive skills, it looks like we're in for yet another bad spell.
As I said before, if you think you are better, start your own organization. Fight fairly.
Advocating even more divisions?
David Pack betrayed Global when he came into some money, lied, broke his promises and was supremely arrogant -- and this is well documented. He took the money and run to cobble together his own pathetic organization from a building he shares with two lawyers, two opthamologists, the Red Cross, a construction company and an architectural firm, pretending to be a major church.
He's a false prophet and he teaches people to break the Sabbath. His little franchise is failing miserably and he is barely able to keep ahead of the bills as he sinks like a rock in a pond.
He is desperate to be a success while recognizing that he is a pathetic failure and needs people like you to keep up the pretense to avoid the soon coming time that he will have to repent.
Breaking News:
There is a village in the Philippines has lost its Idiot!
If you have any info regarding this "Idiot", contact the "Apostle" in Wadsworth Ohio immediately.
Mr. Andrade, you can't be serious. If you are, I suggest a complete psychological exam.
You exibit signs of a loss of reality with delusions of grandeur.
Following a entally ill man is no way to go through life.
Get help wile you still can. This is serious stuff.
James Andrade
Philippines....."As I said before, if you think you are better, start your own organization. Fight fairly"
Poor deluded soul.
Start your own organization?
Fight fairly?
If you are any indication of what its like to be in the Restored Church of God, I would rather join forces with Micky Mouse.
I mentioned that I am an accredited apostle, but I have additional proof:
An apostle is "one sent forth".
Everywhere I go, people tell me to leave.
Where are you James Andrade of the
Philippines. nothing to enlighten us about???????
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