Today was one of those days when my past life and my current life intersected in an unusual way. I rode my bike downtown with a graduate student studying ecological goods and services to view a film at the Vancouver International Film Fest. Strangely enough the film, “Homegrown,” was about a family with a WCG background.Jules Dervaes might be best know amoung xCOG followers for penning an article that got plagiarized by Gerald Flurry. But among climate change activists, those concerned about food system sustainability and locavores he is famous for something else. He and his family have created one of the most successful and well known examples of urban agriculture.
The film only briefly touched on religion. There was passing mention of moving to Pasadena to study theology and the family was shown praying before the meals. But most of the film dealt with the inspiring story of how this family has managed to create an amazing example of sustainability and self sufficiency in an urban environment.
The film brought up a few memories. There was a scene at the Rose Bowl where I spent some time doing fundraisers for AC. And some old family pictures from the 80s that somehow looked familiar. I had probably seen that family at church services during my time at college in Pasadena. I smiled when one if them is shown riding an Xtracycle to the grocery store. How many people that I used to go to church with even know what an Xtracycle is?
The audience at the film fest seemed inspired by the story. There was enthusiastic clapping at the end. And I overheard people sharing the Dervaes project website with each other. My companion and I joked about finding 1/5 of an acre in our city to replicate what the Dervaes family had done.
But for me there was another element to the story that probably no one else in audience appreciated. Here was a family from a fundamentalist WCG background who found themselves part of larger community that was quite different than the church environment that they came from. They found themselves, perhaps accidentally, at the forefront of a movement that is deeply concerned about the health and welfare of our planet and future generations. A movement that is concerned about finding practical solutions to issues of sustainability – not just praying and waiting for messianic intervention. And I also found that inspiring.
Here are a couple of links to information on the film:
Urban Homestead
VIFF
21 comments:
Good posting, I also found the "not just praying and waiting for messianic intervention" quite inspiring.
My life has changed for the better in so many ways since I stopped praying for divine intervention and took things into my own hands and made positive improvements for me and my family.
The lack of answered prayer was one of the big things that caused me to lose my faith in faith.
I went back recently and reread the promises made by Jesus and was surprised again at how specific they are that whatever I ask for will be granted as long as I believe. And I certainly believed. The promises don't include the qualifications that many make about it having to be gods will.
Anonymous 9:56 wrote:
"The lack of answered prayer was one of the big things that caused me to lose my faith in faith."
Interesting, Anon, because consistently unanswered prayer was one of THE major factors in my seriously questioning the whole ideology as well. I wonder how big of a issue this was in other ex-fundamentalists leaving the whole Christian scheme of life.
I would read and reread Rob Meredith’s article “The Answer to Unanswered Prayer” as well as sincerely counsel with various ministers through the years.
I wanted to be believe. I did believe. So when True Believers accuse me, as they often do, of being closed-minded with regard to the things of God, of not being willing to step out and live by faith, I KNOW they don’t know what they’re talking about. I was very willing to do anything to have an intimate father-son relationship with the God who presumably made all these biblical promises. There were periods of my life when I earnestly prayed for two hours a day; when I studied the Bible for two hours a day; when I fasted once per week for almost two entire years – all with one end in mind, that of “drawing close to God.”
And when I would be told over and over again in sermons that "Brethren, we just aren't praying enough in our lives!" I just would shake my head and really start wondering.
So when folks use their standard accusation that I have somehow intentionally blinded myself to the God of the Bible’s existence – well, I know better.
I don't find this ecological mindset in former WCGers surprising at all.
Rachael Carlson may have kicked off environmentalism with her book Silent Spring, but it was Garner Ted Armstrong's ecology TV PR that brought it into the American consciousness.
As you may recall, The tri-cornered hat of sermons Ted drew his TV shows from consisted of Evolution/Pollution and Trade Wars.
Both Armstrong's bear much responsibility for current fundamentalist obsessions about the apocalypse.
We do not live in a vacuum of ideas. What we put out there, has sometimes surprising reverberations.
Interesting discussion.
Prayer is one of the things that continues to surprise me.
Were you praying for the highest good of all concerned, or like Janis Joplin "Lord Won't Buy me a Mercedes Benz?"
People do die of sickness. People go broke. People lose mates. Sometimes from their own actions, sometimes not.
I have found that the stuff I hated going through the most, have given me the most personal growth.
I am learning to even embrace the abuses I've suffered during 34 years of Armstrongism. Not that I'd volunteer to repeat it, or that I'd encourage anyone else to get entangled in it. But it happened. And I learned a few things about life and people.
I have found prayer to be the most effective when it is for others in need. That effectiveness seems to multiply with the number of people praying for the same outcome. But all of it has to be done with the desire for what is the ultimate best thing to happen for all concerned. And sometimes that's quite different than what we pray for.
Many a lotto winner has had their life destroyed by sudden wealth and not having the skills to manage it.
A number of us have been holding private discussions on Facebook about the power of prayer/intention/meditation on changing reality. Its one thing to cast your intention out there with prayer or meditation, but there's also an element of work involved to make that situation real. Through work (which is really you heading towards a goal in the faith of your intention) Intention becomes reality through the hands of human beings. We are not disconnected from the act of prayer.
For example, its one thing to pray to get well, but do we do the research to find out the cause of what made us ill or what treatments are available to help heal it? One can be bedridden in a hospital and lose the ability to walk due to muscle atrophy, some people don't want to do the rehab to regain their muscle control, and they suffer for that. Prayer is more like a match, we often must supply the fuel.
God is not a genie in a bottle. Prayer works, but I am not so certain its all wired into some God switchboard somewhere in the sky, I think it speaks to the power of the divine spark that lies within us all. It doesn't seem dependent on religious belief or affiliation, and it doesn't even seem to matter if you believe in a God at all, the same results happen.
Prayer works? Wishful thinking for sure.
"Were you praying for the highest good of all concerned, or like Janis Joplin "Lord Won't Buy me a Mercedes Benz?""...
The scriptural promises are clear. Your prayers will be answered if you believe. I believed and my prayers weren't answered. I don't believe they were selfish prayers but the scripture doesn't say only unselfish prayers will be answered.
I had a family member who prayed for a pregnancy to occur (prayer 1). When the pregnancy happened they then prayed for the health of the mother and baby (prayer 2). When the mother became diabetic and the baby was nearly lost they prayed again for the health of the baby and mother (prayer 3).
With medical intervention both mother and baby came through well. They shouted about answered prayer. I couldn't help but think that prayer 2 was never answered and doctors intervened more than prayer 3.
Save your stories about answered prayer for someone more gullible.
I believed, I prayed fervently and often. No answers.
The scriptures say all kinds of things. Like stoning your rebellious teenager.
Bamboo_bends, this indeed is an interesting discussion.
I carefully read through your comment, and would like to respond to several things you brought up.
First, I am very glad to hear someone speak of learning major life lessons through their years in Armstrongism. I find this refreshing because so many ex-WCGer’s just seem permanently paralyzed in “complain and bitch mode,” if you’ll permit me this phrase.
Many years ago I once heard someone say, “No experience is a bad experience unless one fails to learn from it.” Sometimes things we humans have to endure are extremely painful, especially at the time, and life-altering, but the mind of man is incredibly flexible, adaptable and oriented toward learning and survival, if given the chance.
So it’s nice to carry on a discussion with someone who has constructively “moved on” from their experience with religious fundamentalism.
And second, with respect to your comments about prayer/intention/meditation or whatever you wish to call it. I’d have to side with the comments of Anonymous 1:04 on that issue, simply because I don’t think Christian prayer—in the conventional sense, as it is typically understood, and as the Bible teaches it—is what you are talking about at all. The kind of “New Age prayer” you speak of seems to tie in with certain aspects of quantum physics – the whole “when a butterfly flaps it’s wings in South America it triggers off events effecting the rest of the world” kind of thing.
I don’t think we’ve even come close to fully understanding the incredible powers of the human mind, so the kind of “prayer” you speak of may indeed have merit, but it is hardly prayer in the sense the Bible teaches about.
In contrast, Anonymous 1:04 and I are talking about biblical prayer, conventional prayer to the God of the Bible, and the many specific promises mentioned in scripture connected to it.
And, as Anonymous 1:04 mentions, I too have oft noted how believers tend to attribute ANY outcome as “answered prayer” – and this is clearly a cop-out. Or a self-fulfilling prophecy. Or wishful thinking. Or the setting of a clear intent in the mind which puts the subconscious to work on achieving such an objective. But I would hardly consider it evidence of an invisible supernatural God somehow reaching down from His throne and intervening in the life of that specific individual. To interpret it as such, in my judgment, amounts to little more than the reckless metaphysical pole-vaulting to conclusions one WANTS to believe in.
I will cite a recent real-life example. I know of a situation in UCG, where a minister’s daughter was out driving, and made a bad judgment trying to turn in front of an oncoming truck. Well, she misjudged how fast the truck was actually approaching, which resulted in a horrific collision, in which she sustained many extremely serious, life-threatening injuries.
She was attended to by paramedics on the scene of the accident. Then she was rushed to the emergency trauma center of a local hospital, where she was given further medical treatment. From what I understand, she was transferred to another hospital (perhaps several) and given the best medical treatment possible, considering her array of particular injuries.
Think of it – paramedics trained in medical science; a host of doctors and specialists trained in medical science, pharmacists trained in medical science providing her medications to ease the pain, a crew of various physical and occupational therapists trained scientifically in the specifics of their particular field.
And then I had the chance to read several emails written by the father (a UCG minister), wherein he was attributing the progress his daughter had made the past several months to “God’s obvious and merciful intervention.”
This completely baffles me – and many others.
Hypothetically, another young lady could have gone through virtually the same identical accident, sustaining the same identical injuries, somewhere else in the world, having access to the same high quality of medical care, having the same kind of supportive family structure, and could have made the same kind of gradual recovery, all other things being equal. But there is one difference in this second hypothetical case – the second woman was an atheist, who didn’t have a boat load of people praying for her (like the UCG minister’s daughter no doubt did).
To what would you attribute the recovery of the second women (the hypothetical case) to? The God of the Bible? These kinds of real-life comparative experiences happen all the time.
It seems to me the most likely answer in both cases is that expertly applied medical care – essentially a product of the scientific method, not revealed fundamentalist religion - was what caused the young lady to recover. Overlaying or embroidering fantasies of divine intervention on top of the objective facts of the situation is optional, according the pre-existing belief system of the person subsequent to the accident, but hardly necessary.
You can invent all sorts of excuses for lack of answered Christian prayer, but honestly, I know of very few folks during my decades in the COG’s who earnesty prayed for a Mercedes. Or a Learjet. Or a 20-room mansion. Most of the time they prayed for more vital things nearer to the human heart, such as the healing of a terribly sick child, etc.
You talk, Bamboo-bends, of praying for “the highest good.” What in Hades does that really mean? I remember one time hearing a minister claiming in a sermon given in Pasadena once how a poor friend of his prayed for a left-handed baseball mitt. And “Poof”—God powerfully answered and let him find one that someone apparently accidentally left behind on a baseball diamond. And yet, during the earlier announcement section of the service, earnest prayers were requested for a lady dying a horrific death from some aggressive form of cancer. It seemed the God of the Bible wasn’t quiet as interested in her case as He was with providing the financially-strapped guy with a left-handed baseball mitt. She died a terrible death.
Would this be an example of "the highest good?"
And let me ask all the readers of this comment a serious question – how many instances of unambiguous “answered prayers” did you witness during your days in Armstrongism? Be bone honest now. And I’m NOT talking about wishful thinking or flexible interpretation of events according to one’s dearly-held ideology. I’m NOT talking about a sick church member being given the best, most up-to-date medical care, and then referring to this as divine healing. I’m talking about miraculous intervention that could not have seriously been explained in any other way.
HWA’s claim in his autobiography: literally hundreds.
My personal experience: ZERO.
There was a lot of interesting, innovative experimentation in organic gardening at Big Sandy in the 1960s, if I'm not mistaken.
Bamboo_bends said...
The scriptures say all kinds of things. Like stoning your rebellious teenager.
That's why there is a Talmud. However, Jesus was against that because it makes the commandments "of none effect" by those traditions.
That sounds like Jesus was in favor of keeping to the letter of the law and not allowing such things as "a sabbath day's journey" and not having to honor dishonorable parents. OTOH, he broke the letter of the law himself.
By the law, just what work is permissable on the Sabbath? The answer is "none", not even lighting a fire to keep warm is permissable.
What does one do when two commandments conflict? What does one do when keeping this commandment breaks another commandment?
That's where the Talmud comes in handy. But, since Jesus is against those traditions, what is one to do?
Finding practical solutions to the human situation is far better than a written law. For example, love cannot be legislated by written law and neither can humanitarian acts.
How could religious authorities in Jesus' day tithe the poor and hungry by the law but ignore love, mercy and justice for these same poor?
How can the CoGs still commit those same injustices today? They had better "pray" that there is not a God who seeks justice for the poor.
Now, to get back to the original subject matter of this particular blog: Jules Dervaes.
This situation, in my view, illustrates another vital point: how fundamentalists can be perfectly rational in some areas of their lives (as Dervaes apparently is with his horticultural work), yet demonstrate all the irrational and unreasoning blind faith of a True Believer in other more metaphysical areas of existence.
I remember this guy parking his sign-plastered van outside of Sabbath services on the nearby streets where the Auditorium is located - perhaps during the late ‘80’s, if I remember correctly. The signs, multi-colored yet poorly printed in large, handwritten block letters, announced various messages about Joe Tkach Sr. taking the WCG off track, or some such things.
And he did this with all the zeal of an Old Testament prophet.
Apparently, Dervaes felt that God had given him a mission to somehow witness to members. And he did this for quiet some period of time (maybe several years or so) every single Sabbath afternoon without exception.
For a number of years I used to work volunteer Sabbath security (where members and employees patrolled the campus in 4-hour shifts between Friday sundown and Saturday sundown in place of the regularly-employed paid security officers) – and I recall a lot of security bulletins detailing Dervaes’ wacky antics. I read them, saw the pictures they included, and so this is how I first learned about Jules Dervaes.
And yet, apparently he is completely rational and constructively productive when it comes to issues regarding environmental sustainability, etc.
So there you go. Even the most fundamentalist of fundamentalists cannot totally escape from rational thought and activity, even if they completely reject rationality in other areas of their lives.
Leonardo said...
First, I am very glad to hear someone speak of learning major life lessons through their years in Armstrongism. I find this refreshing because so many ex-WCGer’s just seem permanently paralyzed in “complain and bitch mode,” if you’ll permit me this phrase.
I think we need to allow space for ex-Armstronig-ists to decompress. The time of anger does seem somewhat proportional to the time you invested in the ideology.
I was angry for 10 years. But I was in the WCG for 34 years.
Anger is a constructive emotion if channeled usefully. Many ex-WCGers built web sites, blogs, some parody sites, others did public service, or other things to work through anger.
...I once heard someone say, “No experience is a bad experience unless one fails to learn from it.”
Very true.
Leondarod said???...
You talk, Bamboo-bends, of praying for “the highest good.” What in Hades does that really mean?
For me it means to seek the result that is the optimum outcome for all concerned. Not exactly the American spirit of competition, but I no longer see humans as disconnected from each other. I see humanity as an interconnected and interwoven whole. Yeah I know..its very Buddhist of me.
For example there are things I desire, that if I got them, while comforting or pleasurable to me - would cause others loss or distress.
Let me give an absurd example...if an armored truck carrying bank cash had its back doors swing up in traffic and drop a bag of money for me, that cash would make my life more comfortable and pleasant. But somebody else would be missing the rewards of their hard labor.
I remember one time hearing a minister claiming in a sermon given in Pasadena once how a poor friend of his prayed for a left-handed baseball mitt. And “Poof”—God powerfully answered and let him find one that someone apparently accidentally left behind on a baseball diamond.
And yet, during the earlier announcement section of the service, earnest prayers were requested for a lady dying a horrific death from some aggressive form of cancer. It seemed the God of the Bible wasn’t quiet as interested in her case as He was with providing the financially-strapped guy with a left-handed baseball mitt. She died a terrible death.
Would this be an example of "the highest good?"
No that's an example of where to look for a baseball mitt. If I need to find some golf balls in a hurry the first place I am going to look for them is in the golf course pond.
You don't find fish for trout in a tar pit.
Cancer is a very complicated illness. Its causes can be anything from radioactivity, mutagenic chemicals, viruses, to a weakened immune system, or a body that has become acidic in its pH (and the body compensates by becoming full of ammonia). Cancer victims often smell of ammonia. There are some doctors who have experimented with injecting tumors with sodium bicarbonate, with surprising results. (Should I add the disclaimer "don't try this at home"?)
I have a friend who was healed of Hodgkins lymphoma. He's a bit of a medical mystery, and doctors would like to know why he survived.
Yet this same guy who had such a marvelous recovery, has in recent years threatened to kill his wife and child. He drinks horribly. He's now divorced and completely off the deep end mentally.
If you want a mystery to solve, tell me how someone who has gone that close to death and come back, can later be so cruel and abusive to his own flesh and blood. I don't get it.
Most of you may have missed it but by the late 80s, WCG became much more outwardly focused/serving. There was a big push to giving your gifts and talents to those outside of church.
Its not a surprise that many WCG/ex-WCG families have wonderful stories of making a positive impact in their communities, especially if they were a part of that movement in the late 80s and 90s.
"Most of you may have missed it but by the late 80s, WCG became much more outwardly focused/serving. There was a big push to giving your gifts and talents to those outside of church."
Shovel harder anon 6:57, it's piling up too fast! SHOVEL HARDER!
By "the late 80s" in my congregation, they were still giving sermons to the tune of "the whole world is under Satan's dominion", and "we are the special called-out ones of the world".
My particular favourite was the sermonette in which we were encouraged, if being given trouble for seeking time off for the Feast (altho I think it was trouble getting the 1st and last DoUB off the member in question was having), to simply "tell the worldly you're Jewish. They're deceived anyway, it doesn't matter what you tell those under Satan's dominion, as long as you stay true to God in your heart".
During the late 1980s, Gerald Waterhouse visited my congregation no less than FOUR times, once for a Feast where he was double-billed with Spanky. Needless to say, there was no talk of "serving the worldly" at any of those events.....
SHOVEL HARDER anon 6:57. SHOVEL HARDER!
Bamboo_bends, I appreciated your intelligible response above. Overall, I think we are on the basic same wavelength here, and your clarifications were greatly helpful.
Still, I don't know why you use the term "prayer" to describe such things, because it really isn't prayer as typically understood. But let us not quibble over semantics.
Actually, I hold a great deal of respect for many Buddhist teachings, though not all of them. Earlier this year I spent ten days at a Buddhist retreat in Maryland (nine of which were pretty much spent in total silence) learning the art of deep meditation, which was taught by a Buddhist priest. During the retreat students were allowed to talk privately with the instructor, and he and I shared many wonderful conversations together. So I have great respect for many of the insights arising out of the Buddhist tradition. Dr. Hoeh did also, and was greatly revered in the Buddhist community located in the Los Angeles area.
You concluded:
“If you want a mystery to solve, tell me how someone who has gone that close to death and come back, can later be so cruel and abusive to his own flesh and blood. I don't get it.”
I don’t either. There are truly more questions than answers in this temporary adventure called human existence, that’s for sure. (Well, accept for when you buy into fundamentalist religion, then you have ALL the answers!)
Yes, the subject of “spontaneous remission” needs to be more thoroughly studied – especially when it happens in extremely negative wacko cases, such as in the case you described.
Actually, my understanding is that remarkably little research has been done in this area, although it’s more widely being looked into now than it was just a decade ago or so. But perhaps the greedy medical/pharmaceutical/cancer industries have their reasons to NOT want to discover the objective facts behind such spontaneous healings/remissions for obvious reasons.
Anonymous 6:57, I was a loyal and very involved member of the WCG up until late 1995, so I know what you say is at least partially true.
But this community outreach was more fueled by active (and typically younger) members than the ministry. This was at the beginning of the volunteerism movement we now see more widespread in the general American culture than it was back at it's beginning.
And I keep in contact with current WCG (or Grace International, or whatever it's currently called) members, and I know for a fact much of the corporate dysfunction is still alive and well. So please don't try convincing us that CGI has completely been revamped and revitalized, because I know it hasn't. It's pretty much the same smelly kettle of fish it always was, except that now they have a few more community outreach programs on line than they had in the distant past, plus all the evangelical doctrines Joe Jr. is so proud of.
And by the way, the classic WCG had such programs back when I was a student at AC in the late '70's - the Match2 program being one of them, where we would go visit prisoners in jail, and exchange written correspondence with them. At least they did in Pasadena.
Jules is like many, many, COG members. He is unbalanced and just plain weird in his thinking and actions. They/he make themselves into social outcasts, isolating themselves from society.
While he may certainly be a good horticulturalist, his mentally disturbed in other areas. When he worked on landscaping in Pasadena those around him though he was nuts and extremely creepy in his words and actions.
Then he started picketing the Pasadena campus. He made his wife and kids accompany him every Saturday as he parked his van in front of the Hall of Ad, or out behind the Auditorium or down on Del Mar by the tennis courts. His van was covered in silly Armstrongite nonsense. We all felt sorry for his kids that were being subject to such silliness and ridicule. Watching their former friends ignore them and laugh at them was not something a parent should have been subjecting those kids to.
Jules thought/thinks he had/has visions from God as to the so called ‘truth.’ Like all cultists, he thought he was on a special mission from God. The noisier he got the weirder he got. He blamed Tkach, he blamed Flurry, he blames anyone who would not listen to his absurdities. He is right and the world is wrong.
He has been featured in numerous articles in Pasadena and Los Angeles papers. In each case he comes off looking a little like a fruitcake missing a few ingredients. This film will only give Jules more fuel to add to his fire. He will think this gives him legitimacy in the eyes of the world and then he will have a new flock of people who will read his religious Armstrongite based puke. But the sad truth is, he just comes across looking like another nutcase from Armstrongism.
"But perhaps the greedy medical/pharmaceutical/cancer industries have their reasons to NOT want to discover the objective facts behind such spontaneous healings/remissions for obvious reasons."
Why wouldn't they? There is nothing supernatural about the extremely rare cases of remission of certain disease states, like tumors. There is a physiological basis behind these remissions, and the person who discovers it will be one of the most famous people in history, and the "greedy" medical industry will market the compound(s) or process which enables spontaneous remission to occur. It will be just another drug/treatment- and not the cure all. I've never heard of spontaneous remission of full blown alzheimer's or cancer that has metastasized to multiple organs, so if there is such a process, it may be limited to certain diseases, or wound healing and immune system bolstering.
Of course, the best cure of all is prayer. It's worked wonders for amputees.
And as an aside, one reason the medical industry is "greedy" is because research is incredibly expensive.
The Apostate Paul
"It doesn't seem dependent on religious belief or affiliation, and it doesn't even seem to matter if you believe in a God at all, the same results happen."
Find me a single amputee whose limb was restored in a supernatural manner, and I'll agree with you.
The Apostate Paul
In regards to comments concerning environmentalism I suggest that this Armstrongite concern with health is part of a wider Adventist concern with physical health that is more prominent in other strands of adventism.
Whenever I read some Seventh Day Adventist publication for example there's almost always an article concerning physical health in there.
On another note I am pleased for Mr. Dervaes' sake that he has gained another claim to notoriety.
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