And Gavin, why did you think it was worth linking to this guy.
He has obviously drunk the kool-aid of bitterness.
He might have been of greater interest if he had actually been in Armstrongism for any length of time -- but by his own account was only in for a very few years after the age of nine.
His bitterness seems to be towards churches in general -- not just Armstrongism. Perhaps he is really wrestling with God.
I was born and raised in the church, and had "drunk the kool-aid" until around 22, though I started (but only began) to see the light at around 17.
I did leave from 9 to around 15, but I still believed all of it, and only left to follow my father out, as he was disfellowshipped for reasons I won't go into here.
In other words, I said pretty much the *opposite* of what you said. Please read more carefully before attacking me, much appreciated, thanks.
I did not read the blog, "I survived Armstrongism" but I would like to comment that I attended WWCG from 1981-1995, met dedicated christians at that organization, a number of us left in the upheaval in 1995, we continue to study our bibles and fellowship together, search to see the truth that was taught at WWCG and hold onto it and discuss and discard the error that we can see, fear God and strive to keep HIS commandments. To me, to stay close to God is how we survive any trial(s) that come our way.
Good for you. Glad you could find something of value out of it. However, since you didn't even read the blog this thread is about, why did you bother to comment? Did you have a point?
I DID read his blog and I feel that most, if not all, survivors of wcg and their offspring go through a period of bitterness. To me it is essential for a healing process to begin and it is welcome. To not be bitter is pushing down all that one is feeling, and that's not good, in my opinion.
Anyone who gets their dander up over someone being "bitter" because of blatant abuse is definitely in denial.
I know, I've been there, done that. And what this person is doing is healthy.
Hi "R" Yes I have a point and that point is the last line in my comment, which was, "To me, to stay close to God is how we survive any trial(s) that come our way." I have heard about decisions made by members because of what was being taught by those "in charge" and I am thankful I did not make some of the decisons that members did make. Yes it certainly IS healthy to open the wound and drain the pus and I am glad you are doing that. I did not really need to read the blog to get an idea of what the blog was about with a title like "I survived Armstrongism." I did read it afterwards, though, and did not think Oh!! So that is what it was about! I was not surprised. God sees everything and knows all we go through. I hope you don't waste time and energy being bitter for long. We care about you...we REALLY do.
I appreciate your concern, really I do, but the fact that the sweetness of your concern is attached to the rottenness of God kind of makes it difficult to swallow. Thank you for caring - when you can do so without having to bring God into the equation and can do so person-to-person, I'll be much more receptive.
I know that is of no concern to you, pearls before swine and all that, but it is what it is.
I know you mean well. Your intentions are appreciated.
And I am starting to think that either there is some kind of concerted effort to discredit me, or some people just absolutely suck at reading comprehension.
Let me be clear:
I WAS IN THE WCG FOR 22 YEARS.
Is that clear enough, or will another one of you appear in a couple of hours trying to tell me that I was not in the WCG for as long as I was?
I grew up as a black person in apartheid South Africa, and was a member of the WCG for 20 years. the church wasn't much of a haven for us, with its BI philosophy, but we dealt with it in the interests of the big picture.
Post-1994, many are disillusioned, disappointed or just grateful to finally join the mainstream world. Some were as bitter as this chap, but have moved on with their lives over the last 14 years, like we did under apartheid oppression and our current crime -ridden democratic "liberation".
But I always wonder about people over the age of 16 who so readily use 4-letter Anglo-Saxon curse words to express their thoughts.
Not per se. There is nothing wrong with being respectful to those who deserve respect. However, I see no reason to be respectful to those that don't. The damage the WCG did was to force you to hide your true feelings under the guise of "respectability", no matter how you felt underneath. Conform or be eliminated.
To me, that *is* abuse. Not by far the worst abuse that they perpetrated on their flock, but abuse all the same.
The ministers did not and do not deserve any kind of respect, because they did not do things that deserve respect. They deserve to be sworn at, because they did things that were reprehensible. That's the long and short of it.
I'm happy for R. I can totally relate. When I left, at the age of 30 after having spent an entire lifetime in the cult, I needed space to vent and express what had been forcibly suppressed for so long.
There are times when I wish I believed in hell, so I could take comfort that Armstrong was roasting in it like a pig on a spit.
My best wishes for you R. Keep expressing your feelings, and relish in the ability to do so. And congratulations for having the courage to leave, start over, and rebuild. It's not an easy task, but you will be so much happier as a result of your decision.
22 comments:
And Gavin, why did you think it was worth linking to this guy.
He has obviously drunk the kool-aid of bitterness.
He might have been of greater interest if he had actually been in Armstrongism for any length of time -- but by his own account was only in for a very few years after the age of nine.
His bitterness seems to be towards churches in general -- not just Armstrongism. Perhaps he is really wrestling with God.
I think the last comment is proof positive that those still snared in the clutches of the cult are unable to recognize the truth when they read it.
According to "R"'s own words, he was born and raised in the church.
I think Alexander's comment needs to be deleted, because it is blatantly untrue.
"R" here.
I was born and raised in the church, and had "drunk the kool-aid" until around 22, though I started (but only began) to see the light at around 17.
I did leave from 9 to around 15, but I still believed all of it, and only left to follow my father out, as he was disfellowshipped for reasons I won't go into here.
In other words, I said pretty much the *opposite* of what you said. Please read more carefully before attacking me, much appreciated, thanks.
I did not read the blog, "I survived Armstrongism" but I would like to comment that I attended WWCG from 1981-1995, met dedicated christians at that organization, a number of us left in the upheaval in 1995, we continue to study our bibles and fellowship together, search to see the truth that was taught at WWCG and hold onto it and discuss and discard the error that we can see, fear God and strive to keep HIS commandments. To me, to stay close to God is how we survive any trial(s) that come our way.
anonymous:
"R" here:
Good for you. Glad you could find something of value out of it. However, since you didn't even read the blog this thread is about, why did you bother to comment? Did you have a point?
I DID read his blog and I feel that most, if not all, survivors of wcg and their offspring go through a period of bitterness. To me it is essential for a healing process to begin and it is welcome. To not be bitter is pushing down all that one is feeling, and that's not good, in my opinion.
Anyone who gets their dander up over someone being "bitter" because of blatant abuse is definitely in denial.
I know, I've been there, done that. And what this person is doing is healthy.
Hi "R"
Yes I have a point and that point is the last line in my comment, which was, "To me, to stay close to God is how we survive any trial(s) that come our way."
I have heard about decisions made by members because of what was being taught by those "in charge" and I am thankful I did not make some of the decisons that members did make. Yes it certainly IS healthy to open the wound and drain the pus and I am glad you are doing that. I did not really need to read the blog to get an idea of what the blog was about with a title like "I survived Armstrongism." I did read it afterwards, though, and did not think Oh!! So that is what it was about! I was not surprised. God sees everything and knows all we go through. I hope you don't waste time and energy being bitter for long. We care about you...we REALLY do.
"R" here again:
I appreciate your concern, really I do, but the fact that the sweetness of your concern is attached to the rottenness of God kind of makes it difficult to swallow. Thank you for caring - when you can do so without having to bring God into the equation and can do so person-to-person, I'll be much more receptive.
I know that is of no concern to you, pearls before swine and all that, but it is what it is.
I know you mean well. Your intentions are appreciated.
I agree with alexander.
the kid was in for what? 7yr?, and now he's bitter about it? and not just at wcg, but at church in general.
I think he just has a problem with authority in general, which is common among young folks.
"R" here...
And I am starting to think that either there is some kind of concerted effort to discredit me, or some people just absolutely suck at reading comprehension.
Let me be clear:
I WAS IN THE WCG FOR 22 YEARS.
Is that clear enough, or will another one of you appear in a couple of hours trying to tell me that I was not in the WCG for as long as I was?
He has the emotional maturity of a bitter teenager still wearing a wet diaper.
I wonder if he'll ever grow up.
I grew up as a black person in apartheid South Africa, and was a member of the WCG for 20 years. the church wasn't much of a haven for us, with its BI philosophy, but we dealt with it in the interests of the big picture.
Post-1994, many are disillusioned, disappointed or just grateful to finally join the mainstream world. Some were as bitter as this chap, but have moved on with their lives over the last 14 years, like we did under apartheid oppression and our current crime -ridden democratic "liberation".
But I always wonder about people over the age of 16 who so readily use 4-letter Anglo-Saxon curse words to express their thoughts.
I wonder how much of AWs sceptics 'morals' were shaped by teir exposure to God's ways while in WCG?
Dear 'R'
I was going to argue the question of years, however years is not that important.
Let me ask you a question. Are you bitter?
That is my concern for you - for bitterness can destroy a person.
If your answer is 'Yes', I hope you can move beyond bitterness.
'R'
I have just read your latest posts and am pleased to see you acknowledge why we might have read your post the way we did.
There is no conspiracy, certainly none that I am part of.
Grace and Peace
Just a pathetic little white boy with no class, obsessing about four-letter words and how liberating they're supposed to be?
"R" here...
"Just a pathetic little white boy with no class, obsessing about four-letter words and how liberating they're supposed to be?"
I think that all of these anonymous posters taking potshots are the same person.
I hit a nerve. Nice. :)
Greetings "R",
One more thought I had after reading you blog yesterday.
It seems that being taught not to swear and to be respectful to others was part of the "abuse" you experienced in WCG.
I have always considered things such as that to be part of the benefits of my upbringing in WCG.
Grace and Peace,
Alexander
(I attended WCG for 39 years from age 6. I have not attended in over ten years.)
"R" here...
Not per se. There is nothing wrong with being respectful to those who deserve respect. However, I see no reason to be respectful to those that don't. The damage the WCG did was to force you to hide your true feelings under the guise of "respectability", no matter how you felt underneath. Conform or be eliminated.
To me, that *is* abuse. Not by far the worst abuse that they perpetrated on their flock, but abuse all the same.
The ministers did not and do not deserve any kind of respect, because they did not do things that deserve respect. They deserve to be sworn at, because they did things that were reprehensible. That's the long and short of it.
He has the emotional maturity of a bitter teenager still wearing a wet diaper.
I wonder if he'll ever grow up.
Sounds to me like Tom Moron is back.
I'm happy for R. I can totally relate. When I left, at the age of 30 after having spent an entire lifetime in the cult, I needed space to vent and express what had been forcibly suppressed for so long.
There are times when I wish I believed in hell, so I could take comfort that Armstrong was roasting in it like a pig on a spit.
My best wishes for you R. Keep expressing your feelings, and relish in the ability to do so. And congratulations for having the courage to leave, start over, and rebuild. It's not an easy task, but you will be so much happier as a result of your decision.
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