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Monday 16 November 2009

The disappearing ThD

Bob Thiel seems to have expunged mention of any Th.D from his bio page. No explanation given, but I guess it amounts to a concession to his critics. Here then are the three versions of his qualifications that Bob has promoted this year.

Version 1: ...I have studied graduate level Early Church History from Fuller Theological Seminary and other schools. A doctor of philosophy (Ph.D.) degree was earned from the Union Institute and University where I studied various biological sciences and research methodologies. I also have other degrees/training, and have studied theology, both formally and informally.

Version 2: ...I have studied graduate level Early Church History from Fuller Theological Seminary and other schools in and out of the USA like T of CU, where a Th.D. in Early Christianity was earned). A doctor of philosophy (Ph.D.) degree was earned from the Union Institute and University where I studied various biological sciences and research methodologies. I also have other degrees/training, and have studied theology, both formally and informally.

Version 3: ...I have studied graduate level Early Church History from Fuller Theological Seminary and other schools in and out of the USA). A doctor of philosophy (Ph.D.) degree was earned from the Union Institute and University where I studied various biological sciences and research methodologies. I also have other degrees/training, and have studied theology, both formally and informally.

Now you see it, now you don't. It remains to be seen whether Bob has done irreparable damage to his credibility by fudging on this issue.

48 comments:

Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid) said...

Thielogical Bob is going to have to work harder to clean up. Examiner.com still shows:
Dr. Bob Thiel has studied theology and prophecy for decades, and possesses a Ph.D. (UIU) and a Th.D. (TCU).

Anonymous said...

This little scandal has removed what remaining credibility Bob had left.

It's hard to take a supposed scholar seriously when everything they write is riddled with errors of grammar, spelling, and punctuation. No legitimate Ph.D. program would give a diploma to someone so lacking in such a critical skills set.

Fudging the possession of a Th.D. from a respectable university like TCU reveals just how insecure Bob really is.

What a joke.

Anonymous said...

Th-u-D

Anonymous said...

"A doctor of philosophy (Ph.D.) degree was earned from the Union Institute and University where I studied various biological sciences and research methodologies."

I've never heard of a PhD in "biological sciences and research methodologies." Similar to a PhD in the "biological sciences," I guess.


The Apostate Paul

Leonardo said...

And just consider how easy this would be for all concerned if Thiel just released a standard vita curricula.

If he hasn’t exaggerated his academic credentials, and they are legitimate, then what is there to hide?

Quite obviously, there’s a reason why Thiel is resorting to this cat & mouse “Now-I-have-a-ThD-and-now-I-don’t” game.

Anonymous said...

Just curious - has anyone contacted Union Institute to see if Bob really attended, and if so, the actual program he graduated from? I, too, have a hard time believing there is such a program called "biological sciences and research methodologies".

Leonardo said...

Anonymous 6:19 wrote:
"Just curious - has anyone contacted Union Institute to see if Bob really attended, and if so, the actual program he graduated from? I, too, have a hard time believing there is such a program called "biological sciences and research methodologies"."


I already made this point months ago, and called Union Institute to verify.

There is no such degree program - just the words "biological sciences and research methodologies" ought to tell us that.

Anonymous said...


I already made this point months ago, and called Union Institute to verify.

There is no such degree program - just the words "biological sciences and research methodologies" ought to tell us that.


So does that mean Bob doesn't even have a Ph.D., or that it was just in something other than what he claims?

Vaughn said...

On Amazon.com is a book titled "Research Methodology in the Medical and Biological Sciences" (Paperback). It appears to be a primer for those of us (me) on the outside of the medical sciences looking in. "Dr." Bob's use of such vague and general terms for his studies makes me think that he too is on the outside looking in.

Bill said...

One of the methods of deception is the use of logical fallacies. In this case, "Dr." Bob resorts to a form of "An appeal to authority" by padding his theological resume. If he were to truly study theology, he just might discover what many others have -- that the theology of HWA is riddled with errors and falsehoods.

"Dr." Bob isn't the only one out there trying to puff up his theological credentials in order to bolster a false belief system. The internet is lousy with them.

If one is truly comfortable with what they believe and teach, would they really resort to this sort of thing?

Mark said...

What is it with COG ministers and their titles? Look at Ron Weinland- prophet, apostle, witness, spokesman of two witnesses.

They are filled with such a need for self importance that they will literally make things up. It shows just how dishonest and self-centered these Herbie wannabes are.

Tkach's $wiss Banker said...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Biological Sciences and Research Methodologies."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Added to his "formidable array" of offensive weapons to counter Christian skeptics who have been seduced by the "fallacy of Darwinism"

Welcome to the wacked-out world of Christian Apologetics

Leonardo said...

Anonymous 8:06 wrote:
"So does that mean Bob doesn't even have a Ph.D., or that it was just in something other than what he claims?"


Who knows? Ask Bob!

But all of this guessing is absolutely ridiculous.

The standard way of expressing one’s academic credentials is by means of a clearly-written (and thus unambiguous and clearly understood) curriculum vitae. If Bob were truly on the level, he would follow this basic convention accepted in all academia.

The fact that he continually refuses to provide one that can be verified is clear evidence to me that he most likely has much to hide from public view with respect to his claimed academic credentials. Just consider the fact that he keeps updating his website constantly with respect to his degrees, claims, etc., much like an academic street shell game.

Let’s be frank here – it’s highly probable that Bob has been caught in a deception here, and he is trying to scramble out of it, hoping the matter will just drop and that we’ll forget the whole thing.

This is standard practice in fundamentalist “scholarship” circles. It happens all the time. I’ve written about the entire affair of creationist Kent Hovind in past blogs, for instance.

But remember this vital operating principle of fundamentalist Christianity, which history plainly bears out: deception and fabricated “evidence” is allowed if it successfully spreads and furthers Christian dogma, and it can avoid detection.

I realize Thiel's recent book isn't directly about such dogmas per se - but the overall principle no doubt applies because this has become a mental habit among True Believers, and they often utilize it without even consciously thinking about it.

Anonymous said...

"So does that mean Bob doesn't even have a Ph.D., or that it was just in something other than what he claims?"


No! I am sure Bob has a PhD (in something). I was being sarcastic. Of course there is no such PhD.

I was alluding to how some people hide their degree behind certain terminology to give the appearance that they have authority in the subject being discussed.

For example Bob's use of the phrase "biological sciences and research methodologies" gives the impression that he knows alot about science. But if he does, then why not just present his degree title, his area of expertise?

When Larry says "biological sciences," why not just say "biochemistry" or "biology" or "chemistry?" Why the incredibly vague term which not only encompasses the physical sciences, but those ancillary, like biological statistics, or epidemiology?

The Apostate Paul

Anonymous said...

To Mark
Dr Thiel is not a mininster- not in LCG any way, he is not even a deacon

Baywolfe said...

It remains to be seen whether Bob has done irreparable damage to his credibility by fudging on this issue.

Assuming you actually need to have credibility before you can do damage to it, I'd say "No Change".

Big Dandy said...

Many top scholars do not list their degrees. In fact, I've even seen Nobel laureates bury this award in their CV so that one would be hard pressed to find it. Perhaps Dr. Thiel has now moved beyond perfunctory degree listing.

Mel said...

What's very telling in all of this is the fact that Bob T. has not done the simple and obviously needed task of producing a curriculum vitae.

He has kept his credentials shadowy and anonymous.
Why?
Simple.
Because he'd look like even more a fool if he were forthcoming about them.
He obviously wants to deceive people into believing he has legitimate and admirable credentials, so he just gives a 'hint' that they are worthy of respect, while actually revealing squat about what they actually are.

He's deceitful.
Maybe he thinks that's a good thing.

Anonymous said...

What's next?

Will he claim to fluent in Latin, when in reality he can only speak a half-assed version of Pig Latin?

Mel said...

I believe that "Dr." Bob is employing a tactic which the "Reverend" Moon's Unification Church does.
The Moonies practice what they term "Heavenly Deception"

In other words, it's ok to lie and deceive as long as it's purpose is to bring people to the cult's "Truth", and/or to portray the cult a better light.

PurpleHymnal said...

"But remember this vital operating principle of fundamentalist Christianity, which history plainly bears out: deception and fabricated “evidence” is allowed if it successfully spreads and furthers Christian dogma, and it can avoid detection."

From Constantine, right on through! Two thousand years of lies, deception, and devilry, under the banner of a sadistic "loving God".

Demiurge much?

Anonymous said...

Perhaps "Dr Bob" would like to receive a PROPER doctorate from either Living University or its equivalent at Edmond.

Them's the real McCoy.

Cheers,

Jorgheinz

Anonymous said...

I think it is so rude to condemn this genius of a man. He is without question man to be looked up to, a pillar of the Living Church. He promotes an organization that is at the spear point of the work. Non Laodecian and Philadelphian all the way. Look at his credentials, (real or imagined). This man is not to be chastised. He even has his own column in The Examiner, see:

http://www.examiner.com/x-22366-LA-Church
-History--End-Prophecy-Examiner?selstate=
mostrecent


Here is THE DOCTORS Bio in the Examiner:

Dr. Bob Thiel has studied theology and prophecy for decades, and possesses a Ph.D. (UIU) and a Th.D. (TCU). He has also traveled extensively, and has visited sites of religious interest in Rome, Greece, Central Europe, Asia Minor, Cappadocia, Constantinople (Istanbul), Africa, Asia, North America, and Latin America.

He is a giant in his field, and to be revered. Leave him alone.

Anonymous said...

"Dr Thiel is not a mininster- not in LCG any way, he is not even a deacon"

He's not even a Dr. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. Missed it, you have.

Anonymous said...

"I think it is so rude to condemn this genius of a man. "

3/10 troll harder

Speakerbox said...

Big Dandy said...
"Many top scholars do not list their degrees. In fact, I've even seen Nobel laureates bury this award in their CV so that one would be hard pressed to find it. Perhaps Dr. Thiel has now moved beyond perfunctory degree listing."

Please tell me that you're joking and not elevating Dr. Bob to Nobel Prize status.

Bill said...

I was wondering if the good "Doctor" Bob would be willing to exonerate himself here by being willing to participate in a question and answer forum with Gavin acting as moderator?

I personally have some questions for him in regards to his comments on an article of mine some time back where I demonstrated the flawed logic in the arguments used to justify teaching and keeping the sabbath. Instead of refuting any of what I wrote, he merely said all one had to do was read one of the sabbath booklets produced by Living COG for "proof."

"Dr." Bobby, I/we don't debate booklets; I/we debate people.

Let's have him put that well groomed intellect to use.

Bill Hohmann

With a lowly useless degree from AC.

Leonardo said...

Big Dandy wrote:
"Many top scholars do not list their degrees. In fact, I've even seen Nobel laureates bury this award in their CV so that one would be hard pressed to find it. Perhaps Dr. Thiel has now moved beyond perfunctory degree listing."


False! Such scholars may not openly use the term PhD after their names because they are so well-known in their fields, but if you ask them to show their degrees, they can do so very quickly, and intelligibly.

Anonymous said...

Good work, Gavin,

I perceive that I am allowed to retain the Philadelphia and Living Universities on my list of approved tertiary institutions.

Institution,in its most pejorative sense, applies to the above pair.

Cheers,

Jorg

Anonymous said...
Perhaps "Dr Bob" would like to receive a PROPER doctorate from either Living University or its equivalent at Edmond.

Them's the real McCoy.

Cheers,

Jorgheinz

Reverend KScribe said...

Anon wrote: "He is a giant in his field, and to be revered. Leave him alone." Wed Nov 18, 02:33:00 PM

To be revered is to be a "reverend" is that not correct? It seems Bob and I share the same title! Hey brother!

Reverend KScribe.

Big Dandy said...

Leonardo said... False! Such scholars may not openly use the term PhD after their names because they are so well-known in their fields, but if you ask them to show their degrees, they can do so very quickly, and intelligibly.

----
Leonardo, you scream "False," and then nothing you state afterwards has anything to do with disproving my comment. Please take more care in your postings.

Anonymous said...

I have a Ph.D. Sometimes I put it after my name, sometimes I don't. When I write a bio, I name the institution I got it from and also the degree title. I would never say my degree is in "various" this or that. Also. research methods is part of EVERY doctoral degree, so I also wouldn't mention that either. Now, you can major in something like Educational Research, but that is a specific field of study.

Thiel may indeed have a Ph.D. from this college, but he is definitely not forthright in what it is in.

Leonardo said...

OK, Big Dandy, you wrote:
"Many top scholars do not list their degrees."


Can you give me a specific example of this? - and by that I mean one whom you CANNOT find out with a little searching what his formal doctoral degree was in, or what particular educational institution it was granted by?

And even if you could, how exactly would this justify Thiel's refusal to make plain his supposed academic degrees?

Anonymous said...

LCG for years has used Bobby Boy as a shill to do their dirty work smearing other groups whom they view as a threat, meanwhile distancing themselves from his outbursts, which they have tacitly condoned. His phony credentials now make him a complete liability and embarrassment. His 2012 book is nonsense. The question is: Will RCM and the gang now cut him off at the knees, washing their hands of him, laughing all the way to the bank?

Big Dandy said...

Speakerbox said...
Please tell me that you're joking and not elevating Dr. Bob to Nobel Prize status.
------------------

You are correct. We can't elevate Dr. Bob to Nobel Prize stature, as there is no such price given for religion. But if there were... :)

Anonymous said...

I also have a PhD. It's from the business college of a large university. I use it when appropriate and I name the institution and the exact field of study. Thiel's mumble behind his hand style of listing his qualifications does nothing but raise red flags.

Neotherm said...

Who is Bob Thiel and why should we be concerned about him? Don't make me read anything.

The Bear

Anonymous said...

"Don't make me read anything."

That suits you well, Bear.


The Apostate Paul

Big Dandy said...

Leonardo said...
OK, Big Dandy, you wrote:
"Many top scholars do not list their degrees."

Can you give me a specific example of this? - and by that I mean one whom you CANNOT find out with a little searching what his formal doctoral degree was in, or what particular educational institution it was granted by? And even if you could, how exactly would this justify Thiel's refusal to make plain his supposed academic degrees?

------------------------
Leonardo, you miss my point once again. I'm simply stating that many top scholars do not choose to display their degrees. Here's an example. I once exchanged business cards with Carl Rogers, one of the preeminent psychologists of the 20th century. As I examined Rogers' card, no Ph.D was displayed after name, but only the following: "Carl Rogers, person." Great scholars do not need to showcase degrees.

As far as Thiel's degree dancing, much more than enough has already been written.

Leonardo said...

Big Dandy wrote:
"Leonardo, you miss my point once again."


Perhaps I wouldn't miss your point if you actually HAD one!

In his later years Carl Rogers was a HUGE figure in psychology (he was actually one of my heroes when I was younger) - sort of like Albert Einstein was to physics.

So yeah, well-known seminal figures like Rogers and Einstein perhaps didn’t parade their PhD, but I’ll bet I could find out what specific doctoral program they graduated from and the name of the granting institution pretty quickly.

The same cannot be said of Thiel.

And that's my specific point...what was yours again?

Speakerbox said...

"Carl Rogers, Person" was another way of referencing some of his work. And I don't think Leonardo missed the point.

Hello Person! said...

Big Dandy posted: "I once exchanged business cards with Carl Rogers, one of the preeminent psychologists of the 20th century. As I examined Rogers' card, no Ph.D was displayed after name, but only the following: "Carl Rogers, person." Great scholars do not need to showcase degrees."

Ah, one of the true marks of a diehard armstrongite; Name dropping and I was shoulder rubbing with so and so.

Whoop de doo.

So you think Thiel is a great scholar, huh? Sure he is...

And somewhere in the hills of Tennesse there is a pig that really can whistle.

(chuckle, chortle, snort)

Big Dandy said...

Leonardo said...

Perhaps I wouldn't miss your point if you actually HAD one!

In his later years Carl Rogers was a HUGE figure in psychology (he was actually one of my heroes when I was younger) - sort of like Albert Einstein was to physics.

So yeah, well-known seminal figures like Rogers and Einstein perhaps didn’t parade their PhD, but I’ll bet I could find out what specific doctoral program they graduated from and the name of the granting institution pretty quickly.

The same cannot be said of Thiel.

And that's my specific point...what was yours again?

------------------------

Leonardo,

My point is exactly the same as yours. So if I don't have a point, you don't either.

Time for both of us to stop playing word games and move on.

Blinded said...

Striking to me that bloggers (myself included) are often unable to pick-up on cynicism such as that used by Big Dandy. Do our strong opinions somehow blind us to sarcasm?

Anonymous said...

Blinded said... Striking to me that bloggers (myself included) are often unable to pick-up on cynicism such as that used by Big Dandy. Do our strong opinions somehow blind us to sarcasm?

-----------

Blinded to sarcasm? NOT US! We have been trained at the feet of Gavin Gamaliel, the master cynic!

Mel said...

Big Daddy, I think the point is that "Dr" T is wallowing in his shadowy schmuckness by virtue of not revealing his alleged degrees.

It's not that he's like great scholars in doing so.
It's that he's like other sleazy schmucks for not doing so.

It's easy to find the credentials of real, actual scholars.

Leonardo said...

Big Dandy wrote:
"Time for both of us to stop playing word games and move on."


I take words VERY seriously, and so I don't play "word games" - but I agree with you in that it is time to move on.

PurpleHymnal said...

"Do our strong opinions somehow blind us to sarcasm?"

Nope the totalitarian thought-reform does. READ LIFTON.