This item was forwarded with the following background info. "Virgil was known for his personal "bling" (he had two big gold rings - which are visible in newspaper photo) and the Rolls Royce he drove. His kids were very nice kids and his wife is a lovely lady."Virgil Gordon is a self-made man. He made a name for himself in South San Diego recycling lumber and timbers from old buildings that were being torn down. He and his crew would pick up wood, take the nails out, and re-sell the wood to people wanting cheaper lumber or lumber that had an aged look (currently very trendy and very "Green" for the environment.)
"Virgil had been known to be very active in improving his local community, an area that is predominantly Black and Latino. He was featured in one Feast film as a "Christian example". He frequently sang in a deep baritone voice at Church Holy Days and Feast days. He was very well known in the San Diego church and was an ordained elder."
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30 comments:
Member of what?
Wait, wait, wait......
They let a church member carry a gun?
Junior and the Snake are pretty desperate for members, if they'll let common criminals like this in, eh? I guess that goes to prove that they'll let anything go on now, for the sake of bringing in more dollars.
His defence lawyer argues that he was protecting himself. Whether this is true or not, is completely irrelevant, for a genuine Christians would not carry a gun or be involved, however remotely, in a party where it appears there was excessive alcohol. And no genuine Christian would ever kill anyone, because would never let it happen.
He was either attending WCG/GCI or one of its splinters. He was therefore not a Christian.
Whatever the outcome of the case, he will still have to explain to God, in the day of judgment, why he took the life of another person, rather than being faithful unto death?
This is a cheap shot.
Folks are innocent until proven guilty.
Anyway the vast majority of murderers in the USA are Sunday keeping.
There must be a direct correlation between murder and Sunday keeping?
I remember this guy. WCG Pasadena would hold him up as this extraordinary guy who was taking care of his church and community.
He kind of reminds me of another COG member back in West Virginia that embezzled over a hundred thousand of dollars from the bank she worked in. She built UCG a church meeting hall, gave thousands away each year to local church members in 'feast presents'. The government finally found out and took UCG's church building from them and sent the pathetic excuse for a Christian to jail.
Anon 1: Member of what? Not sure of his current status... heck, some of us aren't sure of OUR current status, but assume he is (or was last) with Tkach.
Anon 2: Cheap shot? What cheap shot? The accompanying comments are positive, and there's nothing about being guilty. Your Sunday/Saturday comments are irrelevant and weird.
Tom: I'm speechless...
Worth noting perhaps that he has previously been acquitted on first degree murder for the same act.
It just sounds like an unfortunate situation, all around. It seems to me it is irrevelant whether he was or was not a church member. Except perhaps as an item of personal interest, as some among might have known this man.
The Skeptic
Thanks Skeptic, yup, exactly.
So the guy is acquitted of first degree murder – and then faces charges of 2nd degree murder?
Isn’t this a case of double indemnity?
So if he is acquitted of 2nd degree murder, what next – charges of manslaughter?
Tom is amazing:-
“genuine Christians would not carry a gun”. Tell that to the ‘huntin’ shootin’, fishin’ brigade.
“would not….be involved, however remotely, in a party where it appears there was excessive alcohol.” Tom, the feller wasn’t ‘involved’. He owned the hall, and was trying to clear it of the party he had hired it to.
Maybe you think he should be there all evening, monitoring exactly how much each party goer had drunk?
“He was either attending WCG/GCI or one of its splinters. He was therefore not a Christian.” That logic kind of rules you out too, Tom – I know you attended WCG for many years.
This is an unfortunate incident, but having lived in Southern California, I can understand exactly how it all could have happened. Unfortunately, in most gun incidents in California, the presumption of innocence is not necessarily always applied to the survivor. It is a liberal state, and the politicians and officials regularly attempt to criminalize gun ownership, let alone usage.
This, to me, shows that unfortunate incidents can happen to anyone at any time, regardless of their racial background, or religious beliefs. I don't believe that it was Mr. Gordon's WCG beliefs that caused this situation.
God gives us free will. Evil exists because some exercise their free will to do bad. Secular law enforcement attempts to control the evil which men do, but bad will continue to exist until we are all reconciled with God. It's all part of the plan.
BB
"for a genuine Christians would not carry a gun or be involved, however remotely, in a party where it appears there was excessive alcohol"
Tom has clearly never attended a WCG Classic Era social.....
"Tom, the feller wasn’t ‘involved’. He owned the hall, and was trying to clear it of the party he had hired it to."
With a gun? By shooting people?
....
Am I missing something here?
"'He was either attending WCG/GCI or one of its splinters. He was therefore not a Christian.' That logic kind of rules you out too, Tom – I know you attended WCG for many years."
Um. That logic kind of rules us ALL out, Q, even you. I mean, I don't have a problem with that, but that's only because I am not, and have never been, nor will I ever be, a Christian.
The thing that's hilarious is, it isn't even an insult, it's just white noise.
Tom says that 'real Christians do not carry guns'. I guess that automatically disqualifies GTA's bodyguard. He carried a gun for several years to church every single Saturday. Ted was well know to have a huge collection of guns. But Ted was God's anointed so he was allowed to have protection. He had to survive to be one of the two witlesses.
Tom, you write, "genuine Christians would not carry a gun or be involved, however remotely, in a party where it appears there was excessive alcohol. And no genuine Christian would ever kill anyone, because would never let it happen."
What do genuine Christians do when their homes or countries are invaded? Can a "man after God's own heart" approach genuine Christian status? What should David have done with Goliath? Would Jesus have sat down with him and talked things over? Why did Jesus insist that his men arm themselves with swords?
The folks at the at the Cana wedding weren't Christians; they were Jews -- but Jesus was there, turning water into about 15 more gallons of choice wine after the earlier supply ran out. What did they do with all that wine?
After training with Jesus, Peter drew his sword and cut an ear off the High Priest's servant. Why was Peter still wearing a sword after years of study with the Prince of Peace? Why did he use it so violently?
Just some thoughts to ponder...
Sad to say, I sometimes used to get the impression that consumption of alcohol was almost an unwritten requirement for membership! This probably came about as a result of thoughtlessness, but it was nevertheless a particularly unhelpful side-effect of the WCG culture that some of us still struggle with to this day.
Gavin said...
>>Tom: I'm speechless...<<
I didn't mean to render you speechless! I am sure your capacity to speak will return.
Questeruk said...
>>Tom, the feller wasn’t ‘involved’. He owned the hall, and was trying to clear it of the party he had hired it to.<<
If the people were unwilling to leave he should have call the police, not try to sort out the problem by waving a gun. Christians are peacemakers, not worriers!
TM>>“He was either attending WCG/GCI or one of its splinters. He was therefore not a Christian.”<<
QR>>That logic kind of rules you out too, Tom<<
It doesn't. All the genuine Christians, including me, left WCG in 1995 or soon after. All those who stayed behind to embrace the changes are not Christians, for Jesus said, my sheep will flee from heretics and hirelings.
GL said...
>>Tom says that 'real Christians do not carry guns'. I guess that automatically disqualifies GTA's bodyguard.<<
The Apostle Paul didn't have a bodyguard, and didn't need one. For he believe the word of God, which says: "Who is he that will harm you, if you followers of that which right." GTA obviously didn't believe that, as he was not a genuine Christian. For a genuine Christian would never be guilty of adultery. Period!
Anon said..
>>What do genuine Christians do when their homes or countries are invaded?<<
Genuine Christians homes are unlikely to be invaded, but if God allows an invasion to correct and discipline them, they are required to trust God for deliverance, as they are commanded not to resist evil!
Furthermore, genuine Christian do not have a earthly country. Their citizenship is in heaven, and they are looking for a heavenly country whose builder and maker is God. So if the country in which reside on pilgrimage in the evil world is invaded, they are commanded to rely on God for protection - not take up arms to protect an evil society!
BTW, David was not a Christian!
The Third Witness said...
>>Sad to say, I sometimes used to get the impression that consumption of alcohol was almost an unwritten requirement for membership! This probably came about as a result of thoughtlessness, but it was nevertheless a particularly unhelpful side-effect of the WCG culture that some of us still struggle with to this day.<<
Is this a confession that you tend to drink too much? If so, you need to get a grip before it is too late!
Ah yes, guns and booze. Just about every christian (or otherwise) in this country has a gun or five.
In this case, it would seem that double jeopardy doesn't mean anything?? WTF!
Booze and the FoT, Tom Mahon, remember? Huh? Or, were you as anti-social then as now?
It does seem that folks would realize sooner or later that guns and booze don't mix but tell that to our former Vice-President...
Does anyone remember the drunk police officer shooting a WCG member back in the 70s? He broke into her apartment, thinking it was his, and shot the woman right through the liver. His excuse was that the woman had broke into his apartment. I wonder how he felt when he sobered up and found out his mistake? I wonder if he's still a cop?
The way things work in this country makes me think that the woman probably got charged for attacking the officer when he broke into her apt. Then the officer was given another citation for bravery.
"Sad to say, I sometimes used to get the impression that consumption of alcohol was almost an unwritten requirement for membership!"
Yep. That was the only vice allowed, in the church, back in the HWA days.
Given the fact that he carried a gun and was so viciously anti-booze, are we absolutely certain this criminal really is a member of the church? If so, things must still be changing in Glendora; I can't even begin to fathom what a 'dry' WCG/GCI would look like!
Right Aggie, the WCG/GCI folks were the world's worst boozers.
Strange that they were against gambling...but they had other vices to make up for it.
Purple Hymnal said, referring to my comment…
"'He was either attending WCG/GCI or one of its splinters. He was therefore not a Christian.' That logic kind of rules you out too, Tom – I know you attended WCG for many years."
Um. That logic kind of rules us ALL out, Q, even you.”
Yes PH, it certainly does, if Tom’s logic is correct.
I was just thinking of a recent posting of Tom’s where he was asked who were true Christians. His reply, as I remember, was that although he didn’t rule out there being some, he wasn’t aware of any apart from himself and his wife.
So on that basis, yes, Tom would rule out all who contribute to this board.
"Strange that they were against gambling...but they had other vices to make up for it."
One other vice, at least; as far as I remember, drinking was the ONLY vice allowed, back in the day.
The unconverted parent used to bribe the ministry with homemade hooch, so they would stay off our backs. For the most part, it worked like a charm, too.
Once again, Tom Mahon's idiotic comments just stun me!
Tom, level with me: is your IQ smaller than your waist size?
It amazes me how you see the world in such black and white terms. You have "answers" for every possible question, don't you?
I must say, you fit in with the extremely narrow fundamentalist mind set superbly well.
Funny but true that GTA's little cult meet in King's Beach which is on the north side of lake Tahoe. A short drive to the casinos on the north side. You know were GTA was. Harveys on the south shore.
Tom, yet again shows his biblical ignorance, implying a genuine christian would never kill anyone. Obviously, he has to tear up all of the Old Testament to reach this conclusion. The Torah permits one to kill in the case of self defense. One is allowed to pursue, even, unto death, a person, that is threatening to take life. Jesus didn't preach pacifism either, that is a Roman slur on the gospel.
Virgil Gordon was acquitted of everything Tuesday.
Link to a TV report
Tom, you would have been shocked by some UCG church picnics I've attended in recent years. Some of the guys (and even one woman) did target shooting on the grounds after lunch. But then, this is in the rural U.S. South.
Tom: last time I checked, it was God who determined who the "real christians" were. Be careful when you presume to speak for God: Judge not, lest you be judged. BTW, I think only the "Heathen Catholics" have the COGer's beat when it comes to alcohol consumption. With that said, I think some COG doctrines are more accurate than traditional christianity, its the culture within the COG's that are the problem.
"some UCG church picnics I've attended in recent years. Some of the guys (and even one woman) did target shooting on the grounds after lunch."
8-O
8-O
8-O
What did Headquarters have to say about that? Or was it a case of "What HQ don't know, won't get us disfellowshipped!" ??
"I think some COG doctrines are more accurate than traditional christianity, its the culture within the COG's that are the problem."
The culture is the result of those very doctrines, Anon. Your argument is invalid.
Hi Purple...I respectfully disagree..some doctrines, in my view, are more accurate than traditional christianity (a loving God torturing people for eternity etc.) I do think, however, that people who have a high need for cognitive closure (people who have a high need to think they have everything completely 100% figured-out) are also people who tend to be exclusive, distrustful of others, sensationalist, egotistic...oh, yeah and republican! lol It's true, the doctrines are a problem...but only to an extent. If they were more friendly, trusting and accepting of differing viewpoints, life in the COG's would be a bit "better"
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