UCG council rebuffs elder Aaron Dean
A firestorm has raged lately on Internet forums fueled by the recent decision by the council of elders of the United Church of God, based in the Cincinnati, Ohio, area, to "censure" one of its members. The governing 12-man body sent a letter to members of the church's general conference of elders (GCE) in March 2008 informing elders worldwide that Aaron Dean of Gladewater, Texas, a council member since January 1999, had been officially censured. The council's action means Mr. Dean is prohibited from speaking in any UCG congregation until after the 2008 Feast of Tabernacles.
Although the membership of the church was not generally aware of the council's letter to the elders, word of the censure surfaced. Mr. Dean, who served as a personal aide to Worldwide Church of God founder Herbert W. Armstrong from 1974 until Mr. Armstrong's death, in 1986, delivered a sermon and answered questions at a meeting of a Church of God group in Huntsville, Texas, during the 2007 Feast of Tabernacles. Mr. Dean's speaking engagement in Huntsville violated a UCG policy about addressing other groups and brought about the censure.
Photo: Don Bjoraker
AW comment: UCG set out to do things differently from WCG. Headquarters became Home Office, but the mindset endured. Aaron Dean, whatever strengths and fallibilities he might have (as we all have our share) has a reputation as a decent man, and one of the council members most in-touch with the grass-roots of the church. Kilough has effectively demonstrated - once again - that UCG is a long way from living up to the hopes so many held for it.
Earlier coverage of this story here.
73 comments:
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united!
Live by the sword, die by the sword. Dean's a nice guy, but I have a hard time getting worked up about nonsense like this.
Do not expect any of the church of gods to do things which make much sense in the rational world.
After decades of false prophecies kept alive for no particularly good reason, why should anyone trust anything any of the church of gods does?
So much for United being relatively benign. Or making much sense.
I believe if we go by the history of WCG and now UCG, the next time they search for a name chage, I'd suggest "FootShooting Church of God."
Well in the case of WCG, "HeadShot Church of God."
It's amazing how people jump on a story like this and use it to prove United is a people-controlling cult. Here is the facts. UCG has always had a policy that an elder has to get permission to speak to another group. Usually that is granted. I know of a number of situtions where UCG elders were given permission to speak to other groups. Mr. Dean recognized the policy because he asked the administration for permission. For whatever reason, the permission was denied. Mr. Dean then decided for himself to reject the policy and speak anyways. Any organization has to take action when its members openly defy its rules. Mr. Dean recognized the rule by asking permission then refused to follow it. It's really not that big of a deal. So he can't speak in UCG for a few months. Is that the end of the world? He wasn't disfellowshipped. His ministerial credentials were not remove. He wasn't removed from the governing Council of Elders. He wasn't publically chastised before the membership. Is not allowing him to speak for less than a year really that unreasonable? If an organization doesn't take any measure when policy is broke, then it might as well not have any policies.
I have no great admiration for Aaron because of his continued adoration for HWA. It seems like Aaron can't give a sermon without preaching the name Armstrong. Heck, even at his son's wedding ceremony, Aaron had to point out that he (Aaron) co-wrote the official WCG marriage ceremony with HWA. No one really cares that Aaron used to be somebody.
That being said, the issue in this whole thing isn't that Aaron has to pay a price because he broke the rules. The issue is that the rule is stupid. What kind of a mindset exists in an organization that says, "Before you speak somewhere, you need permission"? I can't imagine that the New Testament church operated that way.
What is the real reason behind Aaron's punishment? Could it be that the powers-that-be in United wanted to send a message to the voting elders? Is the message, "Don't vote for Aaron in the upcoming election"?
It has been 13 years for UCG and they still don't get it. UCG keeps proving they are a political organization not a spiritual one. Who do they think they are? They learned nothing from the demise of WCG. Of course, the brethren didn't know about the censure, they would withhold tithes. The board doesn't understand, everything they do eventually gets out to the public & they look like -----. I wonder how many are withholding tithes and offerings waiting to see how this all works out? Brethren are God's children, they are not owned by the church, they are the church. Politics is alive & well in UCG. Shame on them. They will have to answer to God for the way they treat His children. The ministry is under the misguided assumption that they are leading the sheep. Wrong. They are suppose to be feeding the sheep, so that we all are drawing closer to God. These are the same men who corraled the sheep for the slaughter under Tkach, they know exactly who they are. I have not yet heard of any public repentance on their part. The ones who truly repented will want to serve the brethren. Aaron Dean is a good example. The board is in fear. They fear all ministers who are true ministers. Sad. They bring shame on all the church of God. We are all looked at under the same microscope because we are the church of God. When these men behave like spoiled children, it gives us all a black mark with the world. I pray for all the brethren to wake up and see that these men put themselves between them and God. I pray Aaron will take this opportunity and see that this is politics and serve the brethren in the way he always has. He answers to God alone not to any man-made board. I have heard one minister in UCG will only teach what comes from HQ. They have learned nothing. I pray for all the ministers of God, I wish they could see that their true calling is to serve not be served. Repent before it is too late. Wake up before it is too late. There are areas I need to work on too, I am in no way saying I am perfect. I am not condemning all the ministers, I am condemning their behavior. They all need a hug and a slap on the side of the head. Put God first, everything else will fall into place. Stop playing politics. Behave like brethren. All are brethren. When the ministry look at themselves as above the brethren they are in deep trouble (think Pharisees & Saducees). Christ came to serve not be served. Are they greater than Christ? Think about this. What if all the brethren woke up and stopped tithing to ministers who try to control them in any aspect of their lives? What a shock that would be. No retirement pay. No HQ in TX. No new cars. Uh-oh. You will have to work for a living like the rest of us. But, sadly, brethren are asleep. Wake up. Time is ticking by. Read Matthew 25 and pray and be honest with yourself, where do you fit? We all should have examined ourselves before taking the Passover. Do you really see yourself as you are? Aaron, I encourage you to continue serving God's people and tell the board where they can put their censure. May God bless all those who are true to Him wherever they may be.
I couldn't remember my password. (See I have flaws too). I had to sign in under anonymous.
Karen
this is exactly why there are independent churches of God. We can and will speak when and where we wish. As long as we are invited. we do not depend on tithes from anyone, and there are no salaries to be paid and no one to demand that we preach any party guidelines. We have and allow different views and ideas. No one has all truth so we are all learning, hopefully everyday. Mr. Dean should take the example of some of the other ministers who have gone independent and not follow a party line. I'm sure Mr. Dean was very close to HWA. That would naturally mean that he would have and follow and be proud of certain things that he would have worked on. That doesn't mean that he diefies HWA. As these controversies continue in UCG there will be more splits and hurt feelings. that is the legacy of organizations.
I don't know any of the personalities involved, and only know what is reported here concerning the issues. I'm sure it has all come from credible sources and can be verified. That seems fairly obvious.
What I will say, is that I believe this is another example of fruit of a poisoned tree. It's why I believe that anyone from the Armstrong movement is totally disqualified as a valid spiritual leader, counselor, or teacher. And, I have to include myself in that, not that I would ever contemplate entering the clergy. Though we might sincerely try, our minds probably won't be totally purged of all the evil and falsehoods that we learned in the ACOGs until the Kingdom.
BB
Anonymous said...
"It's amazing how people jump on a story like this and use it to prove United is a people-controlling cult. Here is the facts. UCG has always had a policy that an elder has to get permission to speak to another group. Usually that is granted. I know of a number of situtions where UCG elders were given permission to speak to other groups. Mr. Dean recognized the policy because he asked the administration for permission. For whatever reason, the permission was denied. Mr. Dean then decided for himself to reject the policy and speak anyways. Any organization has to take action when its members openly defy its rules. Mr. Dean recognized the rule by asking permission then refused to follow it. It's really not that big of a deal. So he can't speak in UCG for a few months. Is that the end of the world? He wasn't disfellowshipped. His ministerial credentials were not remove. He wasn't removed from the governing Council of Elders. He wasn't publically chastised before the membership. Is not allowing him to speak for less than a year really that unreasonable? If an organization doesn't take any measure when policy is broke, then it might as well not have any policies."
Some REAL facts, anonymous. No UCG did NOT ALWAYS have this policy. I remember well when it was introduced. It was introduced to prevent at least one elder from speaking elsewhere. It was introduced as a control measure.
Yes, Aaron was denied permission. This should make Anonymous suspicious. Why would UCG NOT want one of its COE members (or any other elder or member for that matter) to speak to another group? It screams that they do not trust some of even their own top guys. Or else it is simply a control issue...."I have the power to say no, and I don't particularly like you, so I am saying no just to exercise my power." And then if the order is not obeyed, it can be used to make it seem as if the person is of some dubious character. Anonymous asked what was UCG to do. Well, how about not making an issue out of it especially since some became interested in UCG as a result. And why make issue of it several months later when most UCG folks didn't even know he had spoken at the other group. Anonymous once again needs to put on his/her thinking cap and ask, "could it be because of the upcoming UCG COE elections and the fact that Aaron is up for reelection?" If he/she doesn't think that kind of politicing is going on in UCG he/she is frightfully uninformed. It goes on every year before the GCE.
Yes it is a big deal to censure one of the COE members in this way...or anyone else for that matter. It is used as a club and control feature within UCG...to remove folks from the speaking schedule. Now if they are out murdering, raping, committing adultery, or breaking one of God's commandments...then fine remove them for a REAL biblical cause. But not because of some UCG control feature that doesn't make any sense to begin with.
One thing that anonymous is right about...might as well not have this or many of their other policies, because many of them were implemented for control purposes.
Either anonymous has a position of some sort in UCG or they are parroting what someone of position in UCG told them about this situation. Have heard the same type of thing almost word for word on a variety of issues.
I would recommend a book..."Escape" by Carolyn Jessop. While admittedly it is about EXTREME control...I can easily see the mechanisms that the COG orgs use within its pages.
Earlier in the comments, ANONYMOUS said:
"I know of a number of situations where UCG elders were given permission to speak to other groups. Mr. Dean recognized the policy because he asked the administration for permission. For whatever reason, the permission was denied. Mr. Dean then decided for himself to reject the policy and speak anyways. Any organization has to take action when its members openly defy its rules. Mr. Dean recognized the rule by asking permission then refused to follow it. It's really not that big of a deal. So he can't speak in UCG for a few months. Is that the end of the world? He wasn't disfellowshipped. His ministerial credentials were not removed. He wasn't removed from the governing Council of Elders. He wasn't publically chastised before the membership. Is not allowing him to speak for less than a year really that unreasonable? If an organization doesn't take any measure when policy is broke, then it might as well not have any policies."
Some of those points are good. I am not sure about the accuracy of all of it. We are all children grown big. When we were in school, when the teacher left the classroom, sometimes anarchy happened, or was that just the classrooms I was in? :0) We need rules sometimes. I attend UCG and we have a lot of freedoms that surprise me at times, maybe because we are trusted. I like Aaron Dean's messages and he sounds like a "good" guy. I don't see any immediate threat over this decision made by the council.
Anonymous said... "Some of those points are good. I am not sure about the accuracy of all of it. We are all children grown big. When we were in school, when the teacher left the classroom, sometimes anarchy happened, or was that just the classrooms I was in? :0) We need rules sometimes. I attend UCG and we have a lot of freedoms that surprise me at times, maybe because we are trusted. I like Aaron Dean's messages and he sounds like a "good" guy. I don't see any immediate threat over this decision made by the council."
HHHMMM...this seems to prove my point. Most have been in COGs for decades...including Aaron. If he hasn't grown up and if he isn't able to teach at this point...as well as the rest of us, then we are a sorry lot indeed. Maybe anonymous seems him/herself as a child who will break into anarchy without enough rules...but I see myself as an adult, quite able to control myself. I think the Bible addresses this...when I was a child....etc, etc, but when I became an adult I put off childish things. What is happening to Aaron is nothing short of treating him as a child. I see that as very damaging and indicative of the way some in UCG positions of authority look at other members...members who are just as capable of acting like adults as they are.
Imagine Jesus having to get permission from the Home Office before turning over the money changer's tables!
Home Office Ministerial Behavior Committee of Retribution and Enforcement (otherwise known as H.O.M.B.R.E.)
H.O.M.B.R.E. Man1: What kind of liability might we face from this wildcard of a man known as Jesus? He simply doesn't give a wit what people think of him!
H.O.M.B.R.E. Man2: Well, we could get sued as encouraging terrorism against the Roman occupation. That might hurt the image of the work in Italy! Good News circulation has just recently picked up there...and I don't want to land in GITMO without legal counsel.
H.O.M.B.R.E. Man3: The man is a dubious Sabbath keeper at any rate. He's openly made fun of Bacchiochi....and Sam was schooled in Rome by the best in Sunday keepers you know....
H.O.M.B.R.E. Man1: Let's send him a cease and desist letter before one of us gets crucified.
I have never posted here on AW, but I have been a requent "lurker" on this site for quite a few years.
Reports of church leadership making a fuss over ANYONE reaching out to fellowship with other COGs just sears what little hope I have in the paid ministry.
It's time to post some song lyrics that wer composed during the "Drawbaugh Crises" a few years back -- again I've never pasted anything in here before -- hope it comes thru readable:
The Ballad of Elder Drawbaugh
Copyright 2004 J.K. Dack
There was an elder man named Drawbaugh
He liked to shake folks hands.
He’d reach out, it made people shout,
You could hear it across the land.
Just tryin’ to be friendly,
he didn’t care about the card he’d signed,
that said: “No shakin’ hands with outsider mans
unless you’re willin’ to resign.
See, Drawbaugh joined an exclusive club
a long, long time ago.
He’d signed on the line and in no time
He’s in the corporate preachin’ power show.
He laid shakin’ hands on the sick and the poor,
Shakin’ hands on the old church bus.
But when he started healin’ shakin’ hands in other churches
The corporate man said: “That’s just for us!”
People get together --
you gotta know what’s goin’ round.
When churches put up fences
It’s up to you to knock ‘em down.
Forget about those credentials --
leave the corporate suits behind.
Run from the man that won’t shake your hand,
just wants your wallet and your mind.
Now Drawbaugh’s hand started shakin’,
not outta fear but resolution.
In spite of the man, he’d keep shakin’ hands,
he’d be a one man shakin’ solution!
He shook the hand of every sinner and saint,
More than ever, he’d have to give it a shot.
He brought people together -- he didn’t care whether
the corporate man was lookin’ or not.
People get together --
you gotta know what’s goin’ round.
When churches put up fences…etc.
Now, time’s gone on, the corporate man is gone,
Drawbaugh’s still shakin’ hands ya know.
He’s been workin’ for the man in the promise land,
For a thousand years or so.
He don’t got credetials, but he’s got the essentials
for showin’ people how to shake a hand.
He wasn’t a snob, now it’s his job
to welcome people to the promise land!
People get together --
you gotta know what’s goin’ round.
When churches put up fences…etc.
Considering things Aaron Dean has endured in the past, this can only be felt as a minor hiccup. He never idolized HWA, but loved and respected him, no doubt knowing of Armstrong's clay feet better than most. His loyalty got him into hot water now and then (a gross understatement). He put on no airs during his years with HWA. He was and is a good guy.
After Armstrong's death, he learned from a student, on the Hall of Administration elevator, that he had been fired by the incoming administration. He took it all in stride, often chuckling at the shenanigans of would be hotshots in the gangs of Worldwide.
In this latest frappe he must have weighed the consequences of bucking authorities and decided to go ahead anyway. So they're rapping his knuckles for all to see. No favoritism, not even with Aaron Dean, God bless him. No harm, no foul, fair enough.
Aaron Dean is on the Council of Elders. This should put him in the position of one of the twelve most trusted ministers in UCG.
If you can’t trust one of the top twelve out of several hundred, just who can you trust?
Stopping someone from speaking for nearly a year is a huge ‘wrap over the knuckles’. Especially as Aaron Dean is not a paid minister – I believe that he has always had his own outside job all the time he has been in UCG, so surely this should mean he was entitled to speak elsewhere as an individual anyway?
UCG needs more council members who are not paid by UCG, not less.
Hopefully Aaron Dean will be re-elected to the Council at the forthcoming annual meeting. It would be a worrying trend if he was not.
United's not the only COG that has this policy. And this incident raises an interesting question.
The United leadership claims to believe that there are True Christians in other COGs. In fact, they've had peace conferences with Living COG the past couple of years.
Now, they don't seem to believe there are True Christians in, say, my corner Baptist church. So it might make some sense to tell their ministers not to go a-preachin' to a Baptist church full of non-believers...
...(after all, only the TV and magazine guys get to preach to non-believers!)...
...but if there are True Christians in the COG next door, then they are part of the people of God. So why in the world should United ministers have to get permission to serve the people of God??
Libro
Rebellion is the sin of Satan. I say disfellowship the man! Turn him over to Satan in order to save his soul! If he gets away with this arrogant rebellion the UCG will start to lose control over the ministers and then the followers. Then splits will follow. Just watch.....
I never had a very high opinion about Aaron Dean since he had spent so many years so close to Armstrong. But after this latest example, perhaps there is a glimmer of hope for the man after all.
Now as to the remarks by Anonymous: He/she seems to think Arron got what he deserved after deliberately breaking the rules. I am guessing Anonymous is a UCG member (he may think that, but we all know it isn't true). It is typical of cog goers that the rules established by the politicians in H.O. take precedence over the One whom they claim, falsely, to follow. How come they don't pay much attention to the Master's words that tell them "Freely you have been given, freely give."
And then, if they wanted to really get down to the nitty-gritty they would heed the words of the apostle Paul, who, speaking of himself and Barnabus, said, "For we are not, as so many, peddling the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ." (2 Cor.2:17 NKJV)
In Daniel 6:1-28 of the Bible there is a story about Daniel's enemies getting a new edict enacted, ostensibly because they adored King Darius so much, but in reality entirely because they wanted to trap Daniel. This became clearer to King Darius later when these supposed admirers of his were arguing with him.
Likewise, some in the UCG are no doubt playing dirty politics and trying to make Aaron Dean a bad guy over nothing and getting him to keep quiet with their own clever misuse and abuse of their own clever man-made rules.
The UCG simply has too many godless political animals in it. Those who know the bad actors (hypocrites in Greek) in this UCG drama realise that they have a bad history too, and the future of the UCG under these scheming politicians does not look so bright either.
Is not the UCG known as the splinter group that can't tell dirty old men in the congregation to keep their hands off the breasts of the young girls there, but that can tell entire extended families of the sexual assault victims to stay away from services if they say anything and don't keep quiet about what is going on in the UCG.
Armstrongism sure provides good entertainment.
I read about the scandal involving the dirty old men in UCG fondling the breasts of a young woman.
Let me make sure I've got this right - UCG WON'T tell dirty old men in the congregation to keep their hands off the breasts of the young girls there, but UCG WILL tell this Aaron Dean he cannot speak to his former WCG brethren in other splinter groups.
Does that make any sense?
UCG allows dirty old men to fondle breasts, but won't allow its ministers to speak to non-UCG groups?
Richard
This calls for a split and a new church, The Church of God number DCLXVI
Since the Church of God (COG) loves acronyms so much, ie FOT, HWA, UCG etc etc ad nauseum...
Then I suggest that the home office comes up with a new acronym as suggested by Bamboo Bend's idea of "HOMBRE".
May I suggest H.O.G.W.A.S.H....
Home- Office -Guarding -Wayward Aaron's -Sermon -Habits !
Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA
Kiwi,
New Zealand is not lacking in Biblical "literary" output from the ex-COG stable.Some of these go back ten years or more.
Most are of dubious literary value,though some do hew to a strict Biblical line.
One or two are not too bad,depending upon your perspective.
The authors shall remain anonymous.
Seamus
Richard Pinelli is the nut behind the scene spawning the foment in the back room at United.
An ultra conservative quite a bit right of Genghis Khan, seems to think that unless you are strict in your observances, "God will tip over your barrel". At least that was the message on September 9, 2001 to the congregation to scold the people who were being stalked by a UCG member who were thinking to protest. Shame on them for not just letting an evil immoral man intrude on their marriage!
Those who remember the earlier history of United will remember just how Church of God Big Sandy was alienated by Mr. Pinelli's manipulation. He's also behind the nonsense that rid the UCG of 40+ congregations in 8 years, many of which were told they could have local church boards and then when they did, told by Pinelli's representatives, they couldn't.
This is the same monolithic hierarchy established as a pattern in the WCG under Herbert Armstrong. Ministers and the leadership expects everyone to treat them with respect because they have the position they have. The truth is that just because you have a position doesn't mean that you are competent in it. This is the same mistake the major corporations make.
One of the big problems with United in particular among the church of gods is that they actively and consciously adopted the worst of the corporate model and implemented it badly. I know, because I gave them the corporate model materials -- which they accepted without one shred of understanding what they represented.
It was so very bad that they even adopted the corporate 360 degree annual review! At least I had a measure of revenge. They are stuck with filling out all this paperwork for annual reviews.
The real problem with United is that it isn't a church. It's just another church corporate. It is materially impressive but is devoid of spiritual focus and meaning.
tomorrowonline.org now has an impressive channel to info, but after all that is said and done, all it is there for is to convince people to get to "The Good News" which, in the opinion of the producers of Tomorrow, is a terrible magazine. As one said, "Every time I call 'The Good News' the world's greatest magazine, I feel like I'm lying". Good call that.
UCG is secular. Period. Don't expect anything spiritual to make sense.
As for Aaron Dean, since he's not paid, it is likely that he is viewed as a dangerous outsider whose value is fading -- a value based on his original relationship with Herbert Armstrong where he went from 20/20 vision to 20/200 because he had to read to Armstrong in the dark.
He was bitten by a rattlesnake coming out of his trailer and was sick for some time. One wonders if it may have been much more merciful to have him pass away, rather than to suffer the slings and arrows of people so ding-batty that they just can't stomach his being responsible for going out on his own to actually attract people to the UCG. Has anyone in United ever read about the Apostle Paul in Acts?
Oh, probably not. The Uniteds are pretty much either Biblical illiterates or, more practically, just feel that Scripture is interesting but irrelevant as they eat out in restaurants on the Sabbath and Holydays. They can't seem to figure out as Old Testament Christians that if you adopt the clean and unclean meats, you also have to take the rest of it and stay clear of Sabbath Day commerce, unless, of course, you don't really care if you are accurately accused of inconsistent hypocrisy.
Dean used to work for me when he was a student. Actually, for one operation that I was responsible for, he was my assistant.
He was the best student worker I worked with. He genuinely applied himself. He and I talked a lot and it gave me some insight into what it must be like to grow up in Pasadena and go to Imperial schools there. He got in trouble somehow and was banished to Big Sandy, a place he did not like. It is surprising he now lives in Gladewater.
So much for the personal note. Dean violated a UCG rule and got censured. What did he expect? That is the way that the game is played. We all know that if you join an Armstrongist church, you must play by their rules. This is understood. He could have been treated worse.
Why would we expect the UCG to somehow become enlightened? What evidence is there that such a development is underway? Is there some reason to think that the UCG is a kinder, gentler form of Armstrongism? One will be disappointed only if you believe the Mom and Apple Pie rhetoric.
-- Neo
The issue of morality takes on its true significance when it is not a mere weakness of the flesh, but when, coupled with blatant
hypocrisy, it is used for political advantage. At the beginning of this year two people responded to a vicious smear campaign that had been launched by Mr. Kevin Dean. Mr. Dean apparently had forsaken Christ to become a disciple of Segretti and Krogh. Showing tremendous energy, if not ingenuity, he (with the assistance of his brother and fellow minister Aaron) purchased an extensive cache of electronic surveillance equipment in Hong Kong and Tokyo, organized a burglary squad, which included the campus locksmith, and set out to discredit any who stood in the way of his rise to power. If he couldn't dig up any dirt he could always invent it. (Aaron admitted to his being especially anxious to go to work on Mr. Rod Meredith's phone lines.) I suppose that such antics are par for the course in large, centrally managed organizations, but it shocked some of their early targets. For those of you who are not as familiar with the mundane details of these covert operations, you might check with fellow board members Tkach, LaRavia, McNair, or Walker. It would not be a good idea to reread the coverup under Mr. Armstrong's signature in the Pastor General's report (ironically referring to Watergate as if that scandal concerned the actual burglaries rather than the web of falsehoods), unless you wish to be disillusioned by fairly clumsy fabrication.
Mr. Dean's activities are instructive not for their intrinsic evil, but for the reaction their disclosure received.This brings us closer to the heart of why I am writing to you. When Mr. John Kineston and Mr. Joseph Kotora approached Mr. Herbert Armstrong and told him of Mr. Dean's activities, and defended themselves against false accusations that Mr. Dean had made against them to Mr. Armstrong, he reacted in a way that is by now probably all too familiar to most of you. First, he told them he knew that everything that they had said in their defense was entirely true and he knew them to be men of truth. Second, he told them that they would be given the chance to face their accusers and that he would "clean up this stinkpot" as soon as he returned to Pasadena. Third, he saw to it that Messrs. Kineston and Kotora were fired and disfellowshipped before such a confrontation could ever take place. (This result, you see, promotes unity and harmony among the evildoers within the Church and only sacrifices a few innocent lives in the process.) And fourth, Mr. Armstrong made sure that you all saw and heard, once again, how futile it is to be a whistle-blower in this church.
Jack Kessler
"Whoever is not against us is for us," Jesus said in Mark 9:40.
I've wondered for a long time if UCG really believes that. This case makes me learn toward answering no.
Seamus:
I'm aware of one or two websites, e.g. Children of the Promises, but the NZ COG newsletters seem to have passed me by. However, I don't feel I am missing anything important :-)
Re. Aaron's Great Rebellion, I though this Yankee Anon might weigh in on the NZ Anon's tongue-in-cheek comment just for the sheer joy of it all. NZ Anon has got me to thinking -- and Aaron Dean's plight is so typically PC AC.
No matter which splinter of the old WCG any of these guys serves now, during the halcyon days of their collective youth, they went to school together, attended classes together, studied and chewed the bull together, vied for the same coeds and competed for leadership of the same clubs, dorms and exalted positions on Janitor and Gardening Crews. There's not more than a milligram of doctrinal difference between any of them -- except the part about who's boss.
In those earlier days, when president of Club A couldn't abide president of Club B, he knuckled under to the higher hierarchy. Dr. Hoeh was there, or whomever suited one's fancy with enough moxie to sooth the savage breast. God was in those details, and made things a lot easier for young rivals.
Today, the higher hierarchy is the former leader of Club B, the bum that stole your girl and got the church you wanted! Where is God in these details?
Can't ask Dr. Hoeh any more. Won't ask Tkach. Your wife and her friends used to babysit little Joey when they were students. So who's the boss? The new sages are you and your former roommates. That's hardly encouraging.
Being a former leader of the superior Club A, you bolt, following HWA's example by starting your own only true church, and you continue teaching what both former club presidents learned at AC, together, in the same classes, staring out the same windows, drooling over the same coeds.
But shouldn't old friends and rivals visit each other now and then? Or speak in competing churches down the street? No way. Church government! God backs up His ministry! (Lord, have mercy. Which ministry is your ministry? Surely not the ex-president of Club B. He never was lead man on your Gardening Crew!)
Years ago these men drank beer and discussed coeds together. Now they have to shun each other because a Board of Splinters -- each of them in bold and open rebellion against the Tkach hierarchy -- told them not to speak on the turf of former AC roommates. They used to short-sheet each other in the dorms, but now God's government forbids their rehashing AC class notes in each other's churches. Why does God bother with this nonsense?
Nothing changes. Everyone's in it for market share, except God. He's got the whole world in His hands.
My guess is that a colleague on the Council of Elders told Aaron, off the record, to go ahead, but know there'd be consequences. They can't play favorites. UCG is a big splinter with a reputation to uphold. They issue the paychecks -- but Aaron donates his time. Heavens to Betsy!
Ok. They'll discipline him by not letting him speak for a while. He can sit back and listen to others blather on about Church Government, or why we count Pentecost from...or why Jews use postponements...or how to prove they're in the one true church.
The whole bunch would do well to buy enough 12 packs to go around, and then get together for a big barbeque and postponement bash for old times sake. Hebrew Nat'l hot dogs, beer, and corn nuts for the guys who still have a few opposing teeth of their own. Just like old times.
Their respective hierarchies might clamp down on the lot of them, and we'd be spared their COG PC duly submissive rehashes of what they learned so many years ago, proving little, but getting grades to ensure pulpits, and never daring to think beyond the party line for fear of losing paychecks.
Except Aaron, of course. The one man among them all who was HWA's personal attendant year after year, constantly, loyally, unpretentiously, around the clock, wherever in the world HWA happened to be. That could make anyone trying to maintain public discipline a little wobbly. Aaron can handle it. In terms of keeping a tight ship he has to know he's earned a time out. My guess is that he'll handle it with characteristic aplomb.
Healthy rebellion in WCG Splinter Churches has already proved less critical than today's bureaucracies might lead us to believe. They wouldn't be there had they not rebelled, right? Perhaps the lesson is that one should only rebel when rebellion really is called for. ;)
Re. Aaron Dean's so-called rebellion, Aaron had to know there would have to be consequences if he spoke after being denied permission to do so. In a God-fearing sense he would not have done anything like that irresponsibly, and must have felt that his presence was far more important to the group in Huntsville than potential censure was to him. He doesn’t lack courage, believe me. It was a catch-22, and we’re watching some of the fallout. If we knew more of the story, it would undoubtedly make more sense.
UCG is a corporation with a reputation to uphold. They dare not play favorites. They issue paychecks -- but Aaron donates his time, so they'll discipline him, probably with his assent, by not letting him speak for a while.
He is the one man among them all who was HWA's personal attendant year after year, constantly, loyally, unpretentiously, around the clock, wherever in the world HWA happened to be. That could make anyone trying to maintain public discipline a little nervous, but they have no choice. Aaron can handle it. He knew in advance that this was coming and went ahead anyway. I would be extremely slow to question his decision; but solely in terms of keeping a tight ship he has to know he's earned a time out. My guess is that he'll handle it with characteristic aplomb.
Healthy rebellion in WCG Splinter Churches has already proved less catastrophic than today's bureaucracies might lead us to believe. They wouldn't be there had they not rebelled, right? Perhaps the lesson is that one should only rebel when rebellion really is called for. ;)
Abou Ben Adhem
Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in
bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold:—
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the Presence in the room he said
"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered "The names of those who love the Lord."
"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerly still, and said "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men."
The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.
James Henry Leigh Hunt
-- Against such there is no law --
What is the big deal about the latest shenanigans United is pulling? They did this from their beginnings. They have shown from the start that they were just another false church, looking for dumb sheep to feed them. When starting the Cincinnati church, it was a big fiasco. United is just a false church, with many false ministers, and now they are having a hissy fit about one of their false ministers speaking to another false church. I wasted over a year there, I've been gone now for about 10 years. FREEDOM, how wonderful it is.
Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Did the godly thing but was told to cease.
It's a shame human beings, in such cases, can't just ask other's to not do something again and let it go. May take all of 9 seconds.
Perhaps Aaron a well liked, balanced and forward looking person, represents a Presidential threat to UCG that needs to be cut off at the knees.
Naw..that would be politics. This is a church.
The reasons I should be on the COE of the UCG:
1) I'm not a member of United (corporate boards have members not a part of the corporation);
2) I gave them pretty much all the corporate model;
3) I would give them new perspectives and life;
4) I would insist on strict adherence to a reasonable ethics policy -- one without stalking and fondling;
5) I never attended Ambassador College or Imperial Schools and so I do not have as distorted perceptions as they do;
6) Their eschatology is crap and I would clean it up;
7) I would expunge the name of Herbert Armstrong forever from their ranks;
8) I would insist that people in United show forth the fruit of the spirit or they would be out;
9) I would insist the "good ol' boys'" politics end;
10) I would insist that the UCG focus on Jesus and the New Testament and not be Old Testament Christians because there is no such thing;
11) The ministry would have to go out into the community and prove their worth to have "a reputation" of good works.
It would not be the church of Tkrap.
The church would be much smaller, but with the chaff gone, maybe God could work through the group for the Salvation of many in this world, rather than some sort of useless social club.
A valid question during this discussion is: "Has Aaron Dean repented of his actions that were pointed out by the Jack Kessler letter quoted in one of the posts on this thread?" Also, "Has Aaron repented of his HWA worship?" Last sermon I heard him give, he mentioned HWA's name more than he mentioned Jesus' name or the Fathers' name.
Many of the old-timers have repented. Dave Antion is one that comes to mind. Dave Havir is another one. They have expressed regret for the things they did while on the WCG payroll.
Has anyone ever heard Aaron repent of his past sins when he was a big shot in WCG? I sure haven't.
Until then, let's not have too much sympathy for him even though his case is quite pathetic. The poor guy was once a somebody in a big organization. Now he is a charity case--on the payroll of a rich guy who seems to enjoy being a celebrity collector of sorts.
Aaron needs to go out and find a real job. But wait! He has no job skills.
Rumor has it that Aaron's next step is to jump ship from UCGaia and become the assistant pastor of the Big Sandy Church of God. Heaven help those poor people.
THE AMBASSADOR WATCH COUNCIL OF ELDER SAID...
The governing body of "Ambassador Watch" is announcing to all readers of this "Blog Cog" to inform readers worldwide that BILL LUSSENHEIDE of Menifee, California, a posting member since January 2002, has been officially censured. The action means Mr. Lussenheide is prohibited from posting on Ambassador Watch until after Ground Hogs Day 2009.
Mr. Lussenheide posted on other forums such as Likeminds and the CEM Forum, without written permission of the Ambassador Watch. Such insubordination will NOT be tolerated.
Two Issues:
1 - If you willingly belong to an organization, you follow the rules. Or you leave.
2 - An organization needs to change specific rules. Who decides?
Aaron is a member of the organization willingly. Therefore he should follow the rules or face the consequences. No issue here.
Aaron may have an opportunity to change the rules as a member and try to find a forum for doing so.
Or he can move along and become the type of Christian that would be in keeping with his convictions.
Adele
Anon wrote:
"It's a shame human beings, in such cases, can't just ask other's to not do something again and let it go. May take all of 9 seconds."
I agree! It's a shame that Aaron Dean couldn't just say to the council:
"Please, don't be such jerks next time I speak at another church."
I AGREE With MOST OF THIS: Anonymous said...
"It's amazing how people jump on a story like this and use it to prove United is a people-controlling cult. Here is the facts. UCG has always had a policy that an elder has to get permission to speak to another group. Usually that is granted. I know of a number of situtions where UCG elders were given permission to speak to other groups. Mr. Dean recognized the policy because he asked the administration for permission. For whatever reason, the permission was denied. Mr. Dean then decided for himself to reject the policy and speak anyways. Any organization has to take action when its members openly defy its rules. Mr. Dean recognized the rule by asking permission then refused to follow it. It's really not that big of a deal. So he can't speak in UCG for a few months. Is that the end of the world? He wasn't disfellowshipped. His ministerial credentials were not remove. He wasn't removed from the governing Council of Elders. He wasn't publically chastised before the membership. Is not allowing him to speak for less than a year really that unreasonable? If an organization doesn't take any measure when policy is broke, then it might as well not have any policies.
Wed May 07, 02:30:00 AM NZST
AND MOST OF THIS: Anonymous said "Some of those points are good. I am not sure about the accuracy of all of it. We are all children grown big. When we were in school, when the teacher left the classroom, sometimes anarchy happened, or was that just the classrooms I was in? :0) We need rules sometimes. I attend UCG and we have a lot of freedoms that surprise me at times, maybe because we are trusted. I like Aaron Dean's messages and he sounds like a "good" guy. I don't see any immediate threat over this decision made by the council."
Wed May 07, 06:37:00 AM NZST
AND MOST OF THIS:
Anonymous said...
Two Issues:
1 - If you willingly belong to an organization, you follow the rules. Or you leave.
2 - An organization needs to change specific rules. Who decides?
Aaron is a member of the organization willingly. Therefore he should follow the rules or face the consequences. No issue here.
Aaron may have an opportunity to change the rules as a member and try to find a forum for doing so.
Or he can move along and become the type of Christian that would be in keeping with his convictions.
Adele
Thu May 08, 03:48:00 AM NZST
Put all these statements together and what do you have? My guess is, depending on the person reading it, different views. I see (might not be exactly accurate) that Aaron, who is respected and liked by many at UCG, belongs willingly to an organization named United Church of God where those who are of the spiritual body attend, and it is up to God to see if there are some there who are not of the body. He asked permission, to speak to another group, from the organization, who has a policy to follow, was denied, and his conscience said something different, he did what he set out to do, was disciplined but not put out, continues to do good at UCG and is causing no schism or split by a bitter attitude. Sounds like growth from all to me. He sounds like a "good" guy. I like him. I attend at UCG, not a "member" but I have incredible freedom to discuss much at weekly Sabbath services. It is wonderful where I attend. I hope all of you have the same where you are.
Eckhart Tolle: The Power of Now
"The pain that you create now is always some form of non-acceptance, some form of unconscious resistance to what is. On the level of thought, the resistance is some form of judgment. On the emotional level, it is some form of negativity. The intensity of the pain depends on the degree of resistance to the present moment, and this in turn depends on how strongly you are identified with your mind. The mind always seeks to deny the Now and to escape from it. In other words, the more you are identified with your mind, the more you suffer. Or you may put it like this: the more you are able to honor and accept the Now, the more you are free of pain, of suffering - and free of the egoic mind.
If you no longer want to create pain for yourself and others, if you no longer want to add to the residue of past pain that still lives on in you, then don't create any more time, or at least no more than is necessary to deal with the practical aspects of your life. How to stop creating time? Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have. Make the Now the primary focus of your life. Whereas before you dwelt in time and paid brief visits to the Now, have your dwelling place in the Now and pay brief visits to past and future when required to deal with the practical aspects of your life situation. Always say "yes" to the present moment. What could be more futile, more insane, than to create inner resistance to something that already is? What could be more insane than to oppose life itself, which is now and always now? Surrender to what is. Say "yes" to life - and see how life suddenly starts working for you rather than against you."
For the bigger picture....
http://www.spinninglobe.net/chapter2now.htm
Just do it. Don't argue, Just read it!
It's the Pain Body that demands everyone repent to it's satisfaction, which of course, is never satisfied because to accept someones sorry would destroy the joy of having the Pain Body around running the life show.
I tried a couple minutes on the new blogs but it's pure pain body demanding to stay alive and well. After so long a time now, I personally have to say no to it to keep moving.
I'm not letting my story in WCG define the rest of my life, though it die hard.
"Aaron admitted to his being especially anxious to go to work on Mr. Rod Meredith's phone lines."
Aaron has repented of that. Indeed, he has answered God's call to work on United's phone lines.
I find it interesting that I was a lying no good busybody (according to those loving folks who posted) when I mentioned about Aaron Dean being censured. That didn't surprise me one bit. They were more interested in attacking the messenger than in what was being done to one of their own COE members. It seems that what Aaron did should be regarded as a good thing in UCG's eyes, but yet he is punished for it.
The thing I can't figure out is how Dixon publishes the same facts in the Journal and yet apparently is in good standing with UCG...even plays piano there. I guess Dixon is just so likable they can't resist. I know and like Dixon too...way to go Dixon!!!
Sue
My guess is that this whole thing about Dean is a tempest in a teapot. If we were to inquire about why UCG did not want Dean to speak to a particular COG, the answer would probably be ludicrous. If we were to inquire why Dean went ahead and spoke, against the wishes of his church leadership, the answer no doubt would be ludicrous.
I had forgotten about Kessler's accusations against Dean. I do not know if what Kessler asserts has substance.
I thought the Lussenheide Censure Parody was hilarious. But that is not really the way Armstrongists deal with problems typically. I think public censure is a rarity.
They prefer the Ministry of Truth approach from the novel 1984. Just make the whole thing disappear. Expunge the record. And then re-write history. And eliminate anybody who calls this into question.
That is why the web is such an effective tool against Armstrongism. The web remembers.
-- Neo
Has anybody seen a picture of Tom Moron posted on the internet yet?
The vision statement of the United Church Corporate is this:
To Prepare a People
The implied proposition is that the UCG exists in order to insure that people are prepared for the return of Christ, the millennium, the Great White Throne Judgment, the Kingdom of God.
And just how has this been accomplished? Shouldn't one of the things United should be doing is preaching the gospel? Not unlike the Apostle Paul? To go to all people, no matter if they are of another group or not?
Should not Aaron Dean obey God rather than men? Remember Peter on the Day of Pentecost when he was admonished by the Pharisees not to preach the gospel. Should Aaron Dean not preach the gospel as commanded by God and Jesus Christ and not be burdened by a failed man made religion?
Well, OK.
How well has United lived up to their vision? One could convincingly argue, but only by using the verifiable facts, that they have done very poorly. They aren't growing much. Sheep stealing is gone over the top, both in and out. There are problems with ministerial morality as pointed out. The CoE (Council of Evil) obsess over questions of church corporate governance. The members haven't asked for the relocation to Texas -- it's not a grass roots movement.
Just why does United exist? What is its purpose?
The purpose for the existence of the UCG is to exist.
In response to:
"For whatever reason, the permission was denied. Mr. Dean then decided for himself to reject the policy and speak anyways. Any organization has to take action when its members openly defy its rules."
Notice the words; "decided for himself to reject" and "defy," very strong words to use in defence of an open organiztion.
Rather than use the word "ignore" or something else even more benign, they use words that are condemning even though there is an admission that he is still in good with the brass. This is a mistake. How many in this or other groups would or could come to the UCG if an open dialog remained? Has anyone heard what Aaron Dean has to say about it?
Kiwi,
You probably are correct in that you have missed nothing important by not reading homegrown ex-COG material.
Interesting,maybe, but we have read it all before.
However, maintain your contacts with Ambassadorwatch.It is a beacon of enlightenment.
Seamus
This just in:
Jesus was censured today after he was caught speaking to a Samaritan WOMAN at an off the track well. It was reported they talked about her unhappy marriages. God only knows what else they talked about.
Jesus did not take an elder or even a disciple with him for the visit which is strictly against sect rules. Jesus was forbidden to teach or speak until the Passover of 31 or 33 AD depending.
When asked for comment, Jesus would only say, "It or I am finished." :)
But Dennis -- Jesus was trying to convert a sinner.
Aaron Dean was trying to.... uh.... er.... well.... if they don't have the right church name, they might as well be sinners, right?
P.S. Be careful, you folks who want to ban certain people from posting here. They might go set up their own blog -- and voila, it's another split.
There is a Robinson Memorial Church of God in Huntsville, TX.
Google produced: "Robinson Memorial Church Of God In Christ, 515 Avenue M Huntsville, TX 77320 (936) 295-7702. Pastor Charles H. Greggs. Worship Services, Sunday School - 9:45 AM - Every Sunday Morning Worship: 11:30 AM."
Didn't a man named Robinson write an expose on Herbert Armstrong? Perhaps there is a connection. If so, it remains for someone else to do the research. Not my bag.
Robinson Memorial Church Of God In Christ?
An Armstrong Church of God splinter wouldn't give honor to "In Christ".
Aaron Dean in his earlier sermons, states he was CHARGED Before GOD by Herbert Armstrong to -- "Help Prepare the Bride."
...THAT weighing on his conscience, it's easier to understand Aaron's conviction to 'Obey GOD rather than men'
Many, learning of this action will ask:
* HOW...does this censuring HELP UNITE & HEAL the Church of God?
* WHY...would any COG want to muzzle God's ministers and suppress the truth?
Perhaps there's need to REMIND some: "The WORD OF GOD IS NOT BOUND" !! (2Tim.2:9)
Those enforcing such shameful and unscriptural regulation upon God's Ministry - make Joe Tkach & his 'Pizzaz Boys' Look Good!
All these teapot tempests in a shattered body once held together by the personality of one man. How was this the true church against which the gates of hell would never prevail? Was that to mean the church would destroy itself through infighting, making hell's interference unnecessary?
Catholics have done much better at holding together, as has almost every other denomination, including the Church of God, 7th day, which HWA once pronounced dead. Now Barry Kendall says, of HWA's former personal assistant, that Aaron is preparing the Bride. What Bride? Doesn't that overlook the eternal marriage of God to Israel?
Who is the bride Aaron Dean is working on? Is it the now shattered church that Armstrong built? Is this fractured condition Aaron's fault? Does his recent flouting the rules help or hinder the bride's progress? Perhaps there are two brides, one for Jesus and the other for God (since Jesus sits at God's right hand)?
Wearying, isn't it.
Who was Herbert W. Armstrong in Biblical terms? Have his labors prevailed? Isn't this all just a little bit nutz?
None of this makes sense unless the thread of continuity with God runs somewhere else. From where I sit it looks like Armstrong's one true church is no longer a river but a bunch of scrappy tributaries, each with its own inspired route to the sea of World Tomorrow.
If fixing the mess is Aaron's job, and has even an ounce of validity, then he'd best take the high road and leave the scrapping to the churches.
The more I read about this, the more I realize it is all a case of ACOG sibling rivalry. I am sure that some would prefer to characterize it in absolutist terms, but the reality is that it's just a silly little trifling thing.
My greatest problem is that ACOG people never forgive and forget. Aaron Dean, no matter what one thinks of how deserving he may or may not be, is going to be stigmatized by this for the rest of his life. And, of course, this goes far beyond the normal stigma which most of us would assign to those in the inner ACOG circles, or sitting on the council of elders.
BB
Perhaps a new splinter is in the offing now.
"I had forgotten about Kessler's accusations against Dean. I do not know if what Kessler asserts has substance."
See here
I was reading another Journal article entitled United Church of God council
condemns bloc voting among ministers.
Interesting. From the article:
"Chairman Dick said the proper way to ballot in the UCG is for the elders during the annual general conference in Cincinnati, Ohio, to temporarily retire to their individual hotel rooms just before balloting and pray for God to direct their ballots.
That practice, said Mr. Dick, properly focuses the men on the principle that their appeal is to God to guide them."
I ask, what the heck is wrong with it being discussed among the voters before it being voted on.
IMO, Dick is being WAY control-freaky. Is Dick suggesting that if two or more get together and discuss points, that God or the Holy Spirit is "outta there"?
Maybe it's left over resentment about discussion and criticism of the move to Texas.
In the FLDS(the polygamous splinter of the LDS[Mormons] that's been in the news lately), it's admonished that the members, especially the women, "Keep Sweet". This means to never question and to be totally submissive to authority. In fact, there's an emphasis that's the same, no matter what it is called, in most any cult.
Question what comes from their so-called "authority" and you'll have all kinds of names thrown at you, to say the least.
An example is Sue's testimony:
"I find it interesting that I was a lying no good busybody (according to those loving folks who posted) when I mentioned about Aaron Dean being censured. That didn't surprise me one bit. They were more interested in attacking the messenger..."
Another relevant quote from the Journal article:
"But council members Bill Eddington of Melbourne, Australia, Bob Berendt of Edmonton, Alta., Canada, Aaron Dean of Gladewater, Texas, and Roy Holladay of Chattanooga, Tenn., made the point that no one seems to be clear on what can acceptably be discussed before balloting. Bloc voting needs to be defined, the four said, and somebody needs to explain why it is wrong."
Loooooocy!
You got some 'splainin' to do!
A marine instructor once told a group of us young, Army military police trainees,
"The Army MP Corp eats its own young."
It took me a while to see what he meant, and I can't help but apply it to Armstrongism, and especially those in power, from elders and deacons to ministers to those holding administrative positions. I suppose Party Leaders in the Soviet Union and China would feel right at home in the WWCG and it's offshoots.
The Apostate Paul
So the proper way to ballot in the UCG is for the elders during the annual general conference in Cincinnati, Ohio, to temporarily retire to their individual hotel rooms just before balloting.
Another relevant quote from the Journal article:
Leon Walker of Big Sandy expressed his concern about clandestine "actions"...
Hotel rooms are perfect places to set up covert audio and video surveillance to uncover hidden loyalties or other political dirt to use to advantage. The classrooms weren't the only thing bugged at Ambassador. The elders should sweep their hotel rooms as God may not be the only one listening to their seemingly private conversations.
The Church of God corporate policy used intimidation to control, censorship of mail, lie detectors, spies, burglary, electronic surveillance and other forms of corporate espionage for
SPYING IN THE NAME OF GOD
Byker Bob said,
"Aaron Dean, no matter what one thinks of how deserving he may or may not be, is going to be stigmatized by this for the rest of his life."
Two points: (1) It's encouraging to see a genuinely kind soul caring about Aaron Dean's plight. (2) I doubt this knuckle-rap can matter much in the long run.
None of the knuckle-rappers will ever come close to the experiences Aaron lived through. Who among them was a trusted confidante, 24/7, year in and year out, of the man who built their church and created their world view? Aaron will be fine. He's not stuck on himself, never was. He'll take it in stride and mend his ways if need be. He might grump and chuckle over a beer or two with his friends, but that's about it. If they wrongly make life unbearable for him, and keep at it, he might leave. The sun will rise the next morning anyway.
Anonymous relates Leon Walker's comments: "Hotel rooms are perfect places to set up covert audio and video surveillance to uncover hidden loyalties or other political dirt to use to advantage. The classrooms weren't the only thing bugged at Ambassador. The elders should sweep their hotel rooms as God may not be the only one listening to their seemingly private conversations."
Well they would know wouldn't they?
In ministerial lore of long ago...
A high up official of the WCG once told me a story of a ranking ambitious Evangelist (not GTA) who once toured Japan with HWA, staying at the world famous, Frank Lloyd Wright designed, Imperial Hotel in Tokyo.
Another Evangelist (I assume it was a competitor) thought it'd be really funny if they rang up the Imperial Hotel staff and requested a Geisha for well known man of morality.
The Hotel staff promptly complied with a specimen of Tokyo's finest. The Ambassador Cultural Foundation entourage was of course, one of their best customers.
Armstrong and Gotoh had a permanent office in the Hotel), and they lived there during all Japan trips.
The story was the trickster saw the Geisha go in, expecting her to be quickly escorted back out, but she never came out until the morning. The evangelist joined them later for breakfast looking remarkably refreshed.
I wonder how that was finessed on the AMEX receipts?
Spying in the name of God, we read: "Each dormitory is staffed with a House Monitor, a Monitor for each floor or apartment, and assistants in each room.... These students are dedicated to the ideals of the college and to serving you.... It is your responsibility as a Monitor to get to know ALL the students; to help and encourage them insofar as you are qualified, and be able to refer them to the proper channel for guidance; to see that the students are obeying college rules... to write a weekly report which is due at the Dean of Students' Office at 8:00 A.M. every Monday; to check sign out cards and record violations; to turn in special monitor reports on individuals who have significant problems or who have made special progress. (p. 52).
This was the Soviet style of keeping control. Herbert had good teachers, Hitler, and Stalin. What a hoot! The old bastard really learned and applied this style of Gods Theocracy to his little cult of horrors! Now, I wonder where Spanky learned to rule with HIS ROD of Iron? Same old Nazi mentality. Like an old WW2 war criminal, these old farts never change. HWA interbreed more than we dreamed! He created totalitarianism masquerading as an religious empire. An empire that served HIM, old crusty jowl shaking Armstrong, so well!
Neo,
To support the Kessler electronic eavesdropping allegation, also from that link:
Several AC/WCG employees and ministers even related...that they strongly suspected their phones were being bugged. They have good reason to suspect it. According to the U.S. Attorney General's office, "eavesdropping" on telephone conversations is not illegal, since it implies the consent of one of the parties of the conversation and/or the owner of the phone. Ambassador College, as registered owner of the institution's pervasive Centrex system, has implied consent to eavesdrop on any conversation on any phone paid for by the college-and that includes all the Centrex phones in the homes of college and church executives. Technically this practice-if the college should choose to employ it-is beyond prosecution.
[B]oth Herbert and Garner Ted Armstrong have electronic eavesdropping devices in their fourth-floor office suites that enable them to secretly listen in on classroom lectures. More than one faculty member has been dismissed from the college under somewhat questionable rationale. The verification of such a listening device lends credence to the worst of suspicions.
Given the surreptitious tapes of telephone calls that have surfaced, including HWA himself, I find it to be credible.
If anybody needed to have a lie detector wrapped around his arm at Ambassador, it was Herbie.
'...Chairman Dick said the proper way to ballot in the UCG is for the elders during the annual general conference in Cincinnati, Ohio, to temporarily retire to their individual hotel rooms just before balloting and pray for God to direct their ballots...'
A useful approach is that used in the CGOM Conferences. Before each topic session three of those present (not just elders) pray for God's guidance. When a sticking point is encountered the next three in the row ask for guidance. When there is still no agreement the matter is temporarily set aside.
"Before each topic session three of those present (not just elders) pray for God's guidance. When a sticking point is encountered the next three in the row ask for guidance. When there is still no agreement the matter is temporarily set aside."
Boy, it's tough to get a answer out of God. Maybe they should cut themselves and bleed a little.
Where's the Urim and Thummim when ya need 'em?
Where's the Urim and Thummim when ya need 'em?
You mean Liv Urim and Strom Thummin?
What a team!
Your as bad as Ronnie, I tried to enter a login and it blew me off! Same thing Ronnie did, when I emailed him.
Why hasn`t the Ronnie watch been updated?
I`m not a fan of his , believe me, whats up here? Run out of what?
Go.
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