First there was the transformation from old fashioned 6-day, flood-geology Creationism to new, repackaged, consumer-friendly "Intelligent Design". Now another retread is underway that may strike a special chord with the COG community. Antiquated, much-battered J. H. Allen-style British Israelism seems to be heading for the recycle bin as well, to emerge as something called the Two House Theory.
THT is a lot like BI, but this time it's gaining ground in the environment of Messianic Judaism, as non-Jewish converts attempt to deal with Patriarch-envy. As always, Wikipedia is on top of the issue.
As the Preacher says in Ecclesiastes: nuthin' new under the Sun!
Anyone have any idea how many former WCG folks have migrated to Messianic Judaism? I can see a certain logic to it, and the Two House Theory fits right in.
ReplyDeleteI do know of around 35 who have, small numbers but they mostly were of the older WCG types from the sixties and their kids etc.
ReplyDeleteAlmost all had a pretty good bible knowledge. A large percentage from Wyoming of all places and Washington.
Must be that fresh mountain air!
I know of only two families, one in California and one in Washington, but as I said, it isn't illogical from a fundamentalist point of view combined with an Armstrong/J.H. Allen British Israelism.
ReplyDeleteThe whole thing is absurd. The whole racist BI theory supposes that a) Adam was white b) Noah was white c) Israelites are white, therefore only whites are chosen leaving every other race on planet earth a 'red headed stepchild' at best. d) That the lost tribes of Israel were somehow able to discern their tribal identity (after having lost it completely)and migrate to specific locations in Europe. e) These white 'Israelites' when migrating to the American colonies, miraculously became members of the tribe Manasseh simply by way of traversing the Atlantic ocean. f) Despite wars, famine, redefining of national borders, mass migrations, intermarriage, and immigration over the millenia, these 'tribes' maintain their identity. g) The Germans, despite being every bit as alabaster as most of the rest of white Europeans, are not descended from one or more tribes of Israel, but are Assyrians.
ReplyDeleteWHAT?!!?
The whole idea can stop right with Noah. (Not that I give any part of the idea any credibility whatsoever or that there is any evidence as to what color Adam was, if indeed the biblical story is accurate). If Noah and his sons carried the seeds of all races to re-populate the earth (>Chuckle<), any child born afterward that was anything other than white was doomed to second class status from the word go regardless of his ancestry being "perfect in their generations". Too bad for them, huh...
I have Italian, Irish, English, and German blood in me, an American...hmmm. Too bad Herman Hoeh passed on, perhaps he could advise me as to what that means...but wait, my ancestors crossed the Atlantic, so does that still make me a member of Manassaseh since I have white skin?
This goes way beyond simple cognitive dissonance. BI is madness.
Gavin, when are you going to stop saying such embarrassingly inaccurate things about Intelligent Design? ID is a transformed, repacked six-day creationism the same way Two House Theory is a repacked British Israelism??? You do know, don't you, that many if not most proponents of Intelligent Design are believers in the theory of evolution?
ReplyDeleteCharlie Kieran did not take his observations far enough. It is true that Armstrongites believed Adam was white. But Adam was created in the "image of God", which is interpreted as a physical, bodily image by Armstrongites. Hence, God himself, who has a body according to Armstrongism, is racially white and, further, Israelitish in characteristics, because God is also reflected in Jesus' physical aspect.
ReplyDeleteSo for people of British descent, being a part of Armstrongism is quite heady. Not only are you one of the chosen people but you are also of the same race as God.
Much evil of a racist sort was introduced into Armstrongism when its architects failed to understand much more about the "image of God" than its physical meaning. And, of course, it is based on the heretical notion that God has a body, is essentially a human created out of some "spirit substance" or as HWA used to say "of spirit composition."
-- Neo
Jared, re. ID: Try http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-55/iss-6/p48a.html. "Creationism in a cheap tuxedo" about sums it up. You really need to get a hold of something like Ron Numbers' book "The Creationists: From Scientific Creationism to Intelligent Design" (there's a link on the second page of my book section.)
ReplyDeleteGavin
[Not at all embarassed ;-) ]
Ah, the battle rages on.
ReplyDeleteDNA typing does not show any link between the Cohen/Kohen dynasty who are taken to be Jews excelsior, and the Japhthetic races of Western Europe.
So far, so good.
Let us throw a spanner into the ring.
Supposing,just supposing that the Cohen dynasty does not represent the TRUE BLUE JEW. Remember, the Jews have intermarried so heavily with all races that it is hard to say what an authentic Jew should look like or what his DNA profile should be.
The Jews are spread across this earth today and Messianic Jewry say that the 10 lost tribes became absorbed into the ranks of Benjamin and Judah.AMAZING.This is too convenient and simplistic an explanation.
That is my tuppence worth for the mo.
jorgheinz
Black, white, yellow it does not matter to God. In fact, Israelite or non-Israelite, God could care less. What matters are until the light of the truth has been brought home to your mind and conscience, and you accepted or rejected it is when God will show favoritism dividing the goats out from among His sheep (and we know there has been a lot of goat herding lately never thought the majority of goats would be minister. No offensive to the true Shepard’s). Color, race, religion, gender and ethnic never was a problem with God just your attitude.
ReplyDeleteBesides being Identity Theft, isn't all this business about the Lost Tribes of Israel superflous to Christians?
ReplyDeleteIsn't the Old Covenant dead?
Isn't Christianity all about being grafted in as spiritual progeny of Abraham as a matter of Faith?
Where then, in the New Testament, is there really any room for such nonsense? Or how is it relevant to Christians today, since the Jews rejected the Messiah anyway?
1) Name one good fruit that BI provided to the membership of the WCG. One good, godly, Christian fruit. You can't, because there were none. So even if BI were true -- which it isn't -- there's no reason to pursue something that caused way more harm than good.
ReplyDelete2) Teddy Kollek, the mayor of Jerusalem during the final 20 years of Herbert Armstrong's life, has died. Didn't Armstrong kiss up to him?
We cannot ignore the existence of the 10 lost tribes around the world,whomever they be and wherever they are located.
ReplyDeleteTHEY ARE THE FUTURE,LIKE IT OR NOT.
The Bible( if you believe it) says that all Israel is going to be brought back from their various places of captivity to Palestine, and be RESETTLED in their ancient estates.And this is FUTURE.
David is going to be resurrected as KING OVER THE twelve tribes AND EACH of the disciples is going to head up a tribe. Indisputable and cast in iron.No man, no being or entity is going to change that or be capable of changing that.And if they try, we know their end.It is GOD ORDAINED and will come to pass, regardless of man's denials,thoughts or actions.
THAT IS THE UNCHANGEABLE BIT.
And this is the future that today's Christians,of whatever cult,sect,creed,mainstream church who are given eternal life, will face,REGARDLESS of their present beliefs. Like Paul and the twelve apostles,their former beliefs and traditions are going to be cast aside for NEW WORLD theology and religion.
The uncertain bit is the IDENTITY of the 10 tribes.We can have guesses but no person, of a certainty can name exactly where they are and who they are.
So there you have it.
Jorgheinz
Bonne Chance, Jorgheinz
ReplyDelete"Jared, re. ID: Try http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-55/iss-6/p48a.html. 'Creationism in a cheap tuxedo' about sums it up."
ReplyDeleteI suppose it depends on what we mean by "Creationism." If Creationism excludes evolution (as it is usually taken to mean), then ID is not a form of Creationism. But if Creationism is taken to refer to any belief in a God who created the entire universe and brought about the existence of life, then yes, ID would be a form of Creationism. In that case there are millions of Creationists out there who accept the theory of evolution.
Why you persist in your mistaken and quite silly belief that Intelligent Design excludes the theory (or theories) of evolution I just cannot fathom. In any case, in my experience it seems that most critics of ID (such as yourself) continue to misrepresent and distort it rather than interact with it honestly. It's so much simpler to misrepresent ID as an attack on evolutionary theory, a retread of the amazingly inccurately-named "Creation Science," a Trojan Horse of the Fundamentalists, than it is to take it seriously and attempt a legitimate refutation. However, to do that requires some degree of philosophical literacy, and most people these days, especially evolutionary biologists, are philosophically illiterate.
"You really need to get a hold of something like Ron Numbers' book 'The Creationists: From Scientific Creationism to Intelligent Design.'"
Thanks anyway, but I read Numbers' book about 10 years ago. As I recall, it's a very good book, but my memory would need a refresher to be able to discuss it today.
For your perusal, Salon.com has an interview with Numbers, here:
http://www.salon.com/books/int/2007/01/02/numbers/index_np.html
Note that Paulson, as is typical of media types as well as biologists, thinks ID is part of the "widespread refusal to accept evolution," even though ID proponent Michael Behe, for example, is an evolutionist.
And since Numbers was an SDA six-day Creationist, the SDAs are talking about Salon's interview, here:
http://spectrummagazine.typepad.com/the_spectrum_blog/2007/01/ron_numbers_in_.html
Besides BI being a silly fantasy, the identity of the 10 tribes of Israel today is completely irrelevant to your personal salvation and Christian life. I would actually say its a huge stumbling block to it as some people get so consumed with these superfluous details that they forget to be Christians.
ReplyDeleteOne of the activties in which humans participate is intermarriage. It happened with the Moors and Sicilians, it happened when the Spanish Armada was defeated off the coast of Ireland, it happened amongst the pilgrims and Indians, and it is happening today amongst the entire rainbow of humanity.
ReplyDeleteNot only that, it happened amongst Britons and Picts and Normans, and Anglo-Saxons over the course of the last millennium. How would you determine who is what? Suppose a black person marries into a Jewish family. When God gets around to "sending people back where they came from" would Afro-Jewish offspring be sent to Jerusalem, or to Africa? It's all so ridiculous! Where would I go? England? Germany? Wales? The Netherlands? The topic of British Israelism as it relates to the so-called Millennium is preposterous!
Further, for the ten tribes to be relevant, they would need to have been preserved genetically. If not, they are just as lost as some extinct animal species. I don't even know if it would "count" if they had been absorbed by the Jews.
And, by the way! Where is the Ark of the Covenant???
But, I suppose that some just pass by all of the conflict, confusion, and outright refutation, and sigh to themselves (with a twinkle in the eye) and say, "Ahhhh, but it's a spiritual thing!"
BB