tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post8685387306369469404..comments2023-11-05T20:19:44.812+13:00Comments on Ambassador Watch: Ron the Cheshire CatGavinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03060097218905523899noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-19099988660499312992009-03-05T10:08:00.000+13:002009-03-05T10:08:00.000+13:00He does, PH. But, where this differs from ACOG do...He does, PH. But, where this differs from ACOG dogma is that He does it on an individual basis from the bottom up, not through self-aggrandizing religious charlatans. People who get "called" through a guru, or to be given special understanding of what a particular guru teaches end up having a very disillusioning and bogus experience. <BR/><BR/>It's a difference not unlike that between legitimate love making and rape. Love is involved in one, and force and control are involved in the other. Remember the hymn "Gently and Tenderly Jesus is Calling"? <BR/><BR/>BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-56718353796102335122009-03-04T22:42:00.000+13:002009-03-04T22:42:00.000+13:00I remember quite clearly the church doctrine that ...I remember quite clearly the church doctrine that used to be preached to us from the pulpit, in the mid-80s: <BR/><BR/>How "only God calls people to The Truth", and how "God will open the minds of the truly converted". (Weinland also preached quite heavily along those same lines, last year.)<BR/><BR/>Not sure why I flashed on that, but I just did, quite strongly.......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-22589532186146553052009-03-04T19:04:00.000+13:002009-03-04T19:04:00.000+13:00Byker Bob said... Corky and PH,It's too late. I've...Byker Bob said... <BR/><I>Corky and PH,<BR/><BR/>It's too late. I've already found the truth.</I><BR/><BR/>Oh yeah? what is "the truth"? Be as specific as you can please and with no christian assumptions or speculations.Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-27398750803696533212009-03-04T06:10:00.000+13:002009-03-04T06:10:00.000+13:00Corky and PH,It's too late. I've already found th...Corky and PH,<BR/><BR/>It's too late. I've already found the truth. Only it's not a specific denomination, religion, or collection of rules or rituals. It's Father God, and Jesus Christ, and, a wonderful, wonderful gift: the relationship we get to have with them. <BR/><BR/>Knowing the truth gets us past all of the confusing issues, such as whether or not God used evolution as part of His plan, although some use evolution, thinking that they are "disproving" God.<BR/><BR/>PS: I have nothing against atheists or agnostics. An atheist or agnostic is simply someone who does not yet know God. And, since God is the One who opens and closes minds, hardens or softens our hearts, it's not anyone's fault if they don't yet believe.<BR/><BR/>BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-48214960665794918202009-03-03T18:40:00.000+13:002009-03-03T18:40:00.000+13:00"Come clean and tell us who you are."Dear ANONYMOU..."Come clean and tell us who you are."<BR/><BR/>Dear ANONYMOUS 'Strongtard:<BR/><BR/>To cut to the quick- I don't care. I don't care what my friends and family in the COG's, or out, think about me or my rational view of reality. You have nothing to hold over me. I am not the quivering ex-Armstrongite who fears what his family and friends may say. <BR/><BR/>I remember meeting an "independent" minded COG minister at a Feast. I introduced myself for the purpose of passing on a message from a friend. He said:<BR/>"Oh, I know who YOU are."<BR/>It was a puzzling statement, to say the least. Then I caught on. He was trying to intimidate me in the old WWCG fashion.<BR/>This idiot thought he was back in the Old Days and I was a WWCG member. Fool. He didn't realize that those days are dead (for most) and even if they aren't, I wasn't a citizen of his little domain. I was Paul Ray, human being. I shrugged and left. My last Feast. I remember reading Romans in the parking lot while this jackass was preaching the Law.<BR/><BR/>Anyway.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Your little "request" reminds me so much of that man and the WWCG ministers in general. Little worm, I have nothing to hide. I have always used my full name, while you hide behind ANONYMOUS (let your answer be Yes, selah). I am proud of being a rational, normal human being. Do try harder.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Paul Ray<BR/>Yes, that Paul RayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-83548746386216125002009-03-03T13:59:00.000+13:002009-03-03T13:59:00.000+13:00"If you are looking for "the truth" especially the...<EM>"If you are looking for "the truth" especially the one true truth which is truly the truth, you are never going to find it."</EM><BR/><BR/>There is no spoon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-71054918586002701732009-03-02T19:34:00.000+13:002009-03-02T19:34:00.000+13:00Don't worry about it BB, I think everyone knows wh...Don't worry about it BB, I think everyone knows what you are saying.<BR/><BR/>Yes, scientists make mistakes and then another scientist comes along and corrects it - that's the way it works.<BR/><BR/>If you are looking for <B>"the truth"</B> especially the one true truth which is truly the truth, you are never going to find it.Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-7770467312706304512009-03-02T11:14:00.000+13:002009-03-02T11:14:00.000+13:00Corky,In responding to your latest message, I actu...Corky,<BR/><BR/>In responding to your latest message, I actually found myself attempting to go into greater depth explaining my understanding of radio carbon dating to you. Suddenly it dawned on me that that is not the problem, and I deleted it. <BR/><BR/>There are random and exceptional factors which can skew the results of r/c dating. Contamination of, and natural shielding of the specimens are two such factors. As a Christian who believes that God uses evolution as one of His creative tools, I not only acknowledge the usefulness of radio carbon dating, I also allow for the possibility of skewing or false results. You apparently don't.<BR/><BR/>BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-42113553372167782042009-03-01T22:35:00.000+13:002009-03-01T22:35:00.000+13:00Try this for size (ie critique it).The six days we...Try this for size (ie critique it).<BR/><BR/>The six days were each 24 hrs during which God created eack kind perfect and complete.<BR/><BR/>Each day was separated by an indeterminate length of time, during which earth dried out, variation took place in all nature including man - including Cro-magnon, Neanderthal etc.<BR/><BR/>At some point (6000 years ago?)man became God-conscious - a divine act.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-765831519047018572009-03-01T21:37:00.000+13:002009-03-01T21:37:00.000+13:00Bob,You need to go back to school. Carbon 14 datin...Bob,<BR/>You need to go back to school. Carbon 14 dating is not used for fossils and a vapor canopy big enough to cause a worldwide flood would raise the earth's temperature and pressure too much for anything to live.<BR/><BR/>And no, estimates are not used in lieu of radio carbon dating. Other isotopes are used for things in the millions of years and they have to agree with the geologic column.<BR/><BR/>Science does not just "guess" at this stuff, you should know better than that - being a college educated man and all.Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-84481358539620191822009-03-01T18:21:00.000+13:002009-03-01T18:21:00.000+13:00Purps,I'm going to have to ignore your posts and c...Purps,<BR/><BR/>I'm going to have to ignore your posts and challenges from now on. It would be different if we could actually discuss ideas. Gavin has a good blog going here, and I for one don't want to clutter it up with a bunch of garbage. <BR/><BR/>Bon voyage!<BR/>BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-52005308092030796082009-03-01T17:32:00.000+13:002009-03-01T17:32:00.000+13:00Anon said: "Really? Really. I think not. I do...Anon said: "Really? Really. I think not. I don't think you are a believer in God. You say you are a believer in God, but don't want to hear scripture. Really? Really? Come on. If your "intelligence" is offended, then I can't really help you. Really."<BR/><BR/>--> I don't need or want your help. I'm doing just fine and no, I don't want to hear scripture from you. My belief in a God is not based on the bible. I enjoy reading the bible but I do not derive any measurable comfort or spiritual direction from it. It is a great reference for oral traditions that predated the written word for part of it, the rest is a mish-mash of what the writers WANT you to believe...Just like the news, and a lot of other things. You have a filter on pal, but it needs changing. If your belief in a God is based on a book, you a few sandwiches shy of a picnic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-79383729999853383942009-03-01T14:17:00.000+13:002009-03-01T14:17:00.000+13:00"As for the term "chick","I used the term chick. Y...<EM>"As for the term "chick","</EM><BR/><BR/>I used the term chick. You used the term "gal". Should I have literally repeated your words, or are you just continuing to be evasive?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-50463606172402112662009-03-01T11:02:00.000+13:002009-03-01T11:02:00.000+13:00One more clarification, Corky. If there had been ...One more clarification, Corky. If there had been such a thing as the vapor belt, and if this were prior to the flood, which the Bible tells us destroyed some really weird human spawn (Noah was pure in his generations), the lack of radioisotopes could make it appear that the fossils from the hypothetical vapor belt era were outside of the range of radio carbon dating. Depending on just how weird or corrupted the destroyed ones were, the scientists who discovered bones and other remains thousands of years later could be calling <BR/>them Neanderthal, Cromagnon, etc.<BR/>If they were demented, primitive artifacts would surround them. Heh Heh: "Are we not men? We are Devo!"<BR/><BR/>It'd be nice to have a time machine, because all we can do now is follow an evidentiary trail, and make educated guesses. One day, we'll know.<BR/><BR/>BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-17301564961487350342009-03-01T10:49:00.000+13:002009-03-01T10:49:00.000+13:00Right, Corky. RC dating is accurate for the half-...Right, Corky. RC dating is accurate for the half-life of the ingested isotopes themselves.<BR/><BR/>Beyond that, estimates are used, based on hypothetically concurrent natural processes. <BR/><BR/>I used to study much of this, both in school, and then later as an independent project in order to reason with current WCG members.<BR/>I still watch NOVA whenever I get the chance on PBS.<BR/><BR/>To me, science gives ua a fuller comprehension of God and His natural laws. The problem with WCG was that they often attempted to use what they called "true" science to validate all of their bogus doctrines. "True" meant that they'd frequently make unauthorized corrections to the science along the way. Then it became just as error fraught as the rest of their teachings.<BR/><BR/>BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-50551806573160261272009-03-01T07:52:00.000+13:002009-03-01T07:52:00.000+13:00Byker Bob,Radio carbon dating is not used to date ...Byker Bob,<BR/><BR/>Radio carbon dating is not used to date things that are extremely old. It is used for things in the thousands of years, not millions.<BR/><BR/>It is known to be 100% accurate for longer than things existing in the Bible story of only 6,000 years. This is because of tree ring dating that can go back to above 8,000 years.<BR/><BR/>You can kind of depend on science, Bob, but you can't depend upon a wisp of smoke and a pipe dream at all.Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-87307215035571531502009-03-01T07:26:00.000+13:002009-03-01T07:26:00.000+13:00Slip and slide, PH? I'm processing and analyzing ...Slip and slide, PH? I'm processing and analyzing a collection of facts, beliefs, science, religion, and sometimes even myths, just like non-believers do. And, I can do this, because I am an independent Christian, as opposed to being one who swallows some subset of denominational bias. I know this confuses you, because you like to put believers in one nice, neat little box, creating artificial vulnerability. You like to portray us as not even thinking, as if somehow atheists held the patent on that.<BR/><BR/>Yes, I do believe that some manner of flood happened, probably localized, in the time during which the Jewish geneologies indicate that Noah lived, and I also believe that some sort of Gilgamesh flood had also occurred centuries earlier.<BR/><BR/>Regardless as to whether a hypothetical vapor belt had anything to do with any flood, it does provide one scenario under which fewer radioisotopes would be absorbed by living things.<BR/> <BR/>As for the term "chick", I try to avoid that term because I've found that it offends the majority of the female population. Honestly, I could care less who is superior or inferior. Truthfulness and quality of discussion are what is important to me, and as I said earlier, you had poo poo'd me rather than addressing my challenge to radio carbon dating.<BR/>Seems like you can't refute the ideas I'm throwing out, so you attack my methodology, and even falsify the instant replay by accusing me of using a pejorative word on you that I did not use.<BR/><BR/><BR/>BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-24420427098128677822009-03-01T03:09:00.000+13:002009-03-01T03:09:00.000+13:00"Anon 12:41, Some preachers, like Dr. David Jeremi...<EM>"Anon 12:41, Some preachers, like Dr. David Jeremiah, teach that it had never rained on earth prior to Noah's flood."</EM><BR/><BR/>You're playing theological Slip 'n' Slide again, Bob. So tell us the truth, for once, if you're capable of it:<BR/><BR/>Do you or do not believe the flood allegory in the Old Testament was literally true? Yes or no?<BR/><BR/>And for the last time, will you quit snidely referring to me in every post as a chick? It may make you feel even more superior to me, but I assure you Robert, you are not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-7968518969064603452009-03-01T03:05:00.000+13:002009-03-01T03:05:00.000+13:00This statement:"You are quite right that I believe...This statement:<BR/><BR/><EM>"You are quite right that I believe it is likely that the Genesis flood was a local Mesopotamian event, affecting the known world at the time."</EM><BR/><BR/>And this statement:<BR/><BR/><EM>"Some theologians believe that the earth was once surrounded by a vapor belt, a vapor belt which changed permanently around the time of Noah's flood. Whether or not this it true, it does provide a scenario under which radio carbon dating would become inaccurate, as fewer of the isotopes would be present."</EM><BR/><BR/>Contradict themselves. In the same comments thread. That was the only point I was making Bob. If you're going to spread the stories of your self-created god around, at least make the plot somewhat consistent, hmmmm?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-82388193432613715542009-02-28T19:43:00.000+13:002009-02-28T19:43:00.000+13:00Anon 12:41, Some preachers, like Dr. David Jeremia...Anon 12:41, Some preachers, like Dr. David Jeremiah, teach that it had never rained on earth prior to Noah's flood. I don't find that credible, though, because the Great Sphinx predates the era of Noah, and there is evidence of considerable and prolonged rain erosion evident on the stone. Climatologists estimate that for this to have happened we'd have to look back to about 10,000 BC for wet and rainy seasons in Egypt.<BR/><BR/>BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-75732014643009647422009-02-28T19:23:00.000+13:002009-02-28T19:23:00.000+13:00Why Purps, I'm surprised at you!You are quite righ...Why Purps, I'm surprised at you!<BR/><BR/>You are quite right that I believe it is likely that the Genesis flood was a local Mesopotamian event, affecting the known world at the time.<BR/><BR/>However, in your haste to stereotype, you must have failed to notice that I'm a different kind of Christian, one who often indulges in the testing of theories, and even in occasional speculation. This is because I believe we don't have all of the answers, and probably won't have some of them until death, or the rapture, which ever occurs first.<BR/><BR/>What I was trying to express in the above post was that radio carbon dating is based upon the assumption that the earth's atmosphere has allowed a constant and precise rate of radioisotope penetration throughout the entire history of the earth, and this, through ice ages, volcanism, and a host of other turbulent events. Astrobiologists have even speculated (on PBS's "NOVA") that water on planet Earth was introduced via comets and meteors. Invoking the vapor belt hypothesis was simply to point out one factor which could have existed at some time in the last several billion years. I used it because just about everyone with a WCG background would be familiar with it. And, it does legitimately and logically point out one possible fly in the r/c dating ointment.<BR/><BR/>I notice that instead of offering evidence to refute what I'd posted, ya just poo poo'd me, gal. But, that's OK, I've noticed that on your own "protected" blog, you even get on Paul Ray and Corky's cases, and Corky is just about the most mild mannered gentleman in the ACOG dissident underground!<BR/><BR/>BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-10962652964198049152009-02-28T16:18:00.000+13:002009-02-28T16:18:00.000+13:00Anonymous said... BB - vapor beltYears ago I read ...Anonymous said... <BR/><I>BB - vapor belt<BR/><BR/>Years ago I read in a book of scientific oddities that lack of atmospheric pollutants would cause a rising mist as described in Genesis.</I><BR/><BR/><B>Baloney</B><BR/><BR/>You must have that book mixed up with some comic book or other. I doubt it though.<BR/><BR/>Shouldn't christians at least make an attempt at being honest with their evidence?Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-2574383153260589022009-02-28T12:41:00.000+13:002009-02-28T12:41:00.000+13:00BB - vapor beltYears ago I read in a book of scien...BB - <I>vapor belt</I><BR/><BR/>Years ago I read in a book of scientific oddities that lack of atmospheric pollutants would cause a rising mist as described in Genesis. Although I haven't looked into it, the claim was that in a "pure" atmosphere, conditions would not allow rain to form.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-52673810527416437742009-02-28T11:25:00.000+13:002009-02-28T11:25:00.000+13:00Back off, Paul Ray is my servant.The other anons I...Back off, Paul Ray is my servant.<BR/><BR/>The other anons I know not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-32567270381912349382009-02-28T10:34:00.000+13:002009-02-28T10:34:00.000+13:00To all past wcgers and present cogers. This is for...To all past wcgers and present cogers. This is for your consideration, now that you have embraced the science (evolution)as the answer to your existence.<BR/><BR/>Could you explain how the year 1.5 million was arrived at!<BR/><BR/>foot prints past.<BR/><BR/>lnrd link will take you to the footprint.<BR/><BR/>Could it be possible that the dating correctly should be 1.5 million 277 years 2 weeks and 3.5 hours after sunset.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com