tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post7357351674749497206..comments2023-11-05T20:19:44.812+13:00Comments on Ambassador Watch: The Lovely BonesGavinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03060097218905523899noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-2801680642201673852009-10-17T14:42:34.267+13:002009-10-17T14:42:34.267+13:00The person who writes, Paul bent over backwards, d...The person who writes, Paul bent over backwards, doesn’t understand that Christians have been set free: sin has no dominion over the person who has been born of God through receipt of a second breath (pneuma) of life, regardless of whether the person is born under grace (the first covenant) or born filled with the spirit under the New Covenant (after the second Passover liberation of Israel), when sin is not remembered but when unbelief condemns the Christian—the mantle of Christ’s righteousness will not be needed when sin is not remembered; grace will not be needed for grace is simply the garment of Christ’s righteousness. This garment of grace will be stripped away when the Son of Man is revealed (Luke 17:30), and the Christian who has been set free, with the Torah written on hearts and placed in minds (Jer 31:33; Heb 8:10) as contractual terms of the New Covenant, will be well able to cover him or herself with obedience if this is whom the Christians chooses to serve. If, however, the Christian chooses to serve sin when sin has no dominion over either the inner new creature or the tent of flesh, both the inner new creature and the tent of flesh will perish because of this Christian’s unbelief. Therefore, the person who seeks in Paul’s epistle to the Galatians cover for continuing in sin can find that cover, but cannot save his or her life. This person today denies Christ, and will when judgments are revealed be denied by Christ Jesus: this person makes salvation into a linguistic game that cannot be won by the person, for Christ Jesus determines whom He will marry by giving to fleshly tents of His Bride immortality.<br />Salvation is not a “right”; it is not an entitlement. It is not like a high school diploma that can be earned by completing the required number of courses. It is a gift that is freely given by the Father, and then freely given by the Son (John 5:21). Both the Father and the Son have to give life to a human being before this person can enter heaven as a living entity. It is not enough to be simply born of God, the act of the Father raising the dead by giving to the person [either physically living or physically dead] a second breath of life. The Son must now cause the perishable flesh to put on immortality—and all judgment has been given to the Son (v. 22), with the word [the logos ] or message He left with His first disciples being the judge of the disciple who does not hear His voice and believe the One who sent Him (cf. John 12:48; 5:24). And to hear Jesus’ voice, the person must believe the writings of Moses (John 5:46–47). Therefore, let it be clearly understood, the person who believes Moses and who hears the voice of Jesus and believes the Father will pass from death to life without coming under judgment whereas the person who rejects Moses is also unable to hear Jesus’ voice and is thus condemned because of the person’s unbelief. The latter person denies Jesus and will be denied by Jesus before the Father. This person was born of God through being given a second breath of life (pneuma Theou), but this person did not value the gift of life enough that the person strove to walk uprightly before man and God. This person used his or her freedom to fashion for the person a new yoke of bondage to sin, a yoke not of wooden bars but of iron bars from which there is no escape.<br />But none of this will be understood by the person who looks for a physical temple to be built in earthly Jerusalem, or for the house of Israel to return to earthly Jerusalem. The liberation of Israel that will cause the exodus from Egypt not to be remembered (Jer 16:14–15; 23:7–8) is from death, metaphorically represented by the North Country, Assyria. And this liberation is of a nation that is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, bond or free.The Last Wordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-24844986460073631482009-10-17T09:58:00.078+13:002009-10-17T09:58:00.078+13:00Leonardo said:
"You know, Anon, as I analyze...Leonardo said:<br /><br />"You know, Anon, as I analyze the shallow little comments you fundamentalists leave here, I am always amazed by how incredibly ARROGANT and ANGRY you always come across as in your written communications – and so mindlessly DOGMATIC, as if once you make your smug assertions, then there is no longer any more room for discussion or dialogue."<br /><br />I totally agree. The arrogance of the fundamentalists to assume they know the mind of god based on their own readings. Byker Bob is a good example of that smug arrogance.<br /><br />Also stuff like "One of the most important responsibilities of the Messiah will be to return the entire House of Israel from its present exile to its ancient birthright"... fits exactly in this smug arrogance.<br /><br />Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.<br /><br />Believe in a god if you must, but be honest about the faith it requires and the lack of any evidence to support that faith, much less any extraordinary evidence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-43139094618008575972009-10-17T09:09:19.434+13:002009-10-17T09:09:19.434+13:00Leonardo said...
I am always amazed by how incred...Leonardo said...<br /><br />I am always amazed by how incredibly ARROGANT and ANGRY you always come across as in your written communications – and so mindlessly DOGMATIC, as if once you make your smug assertions, then there is no longer any more room for discussion or dialogue.<br /><br />------------<br />As Mr. Armstrong and now Mr. Flurry have so often said: "When you point your finger at someone else, three fingers are pointing back at you."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-68971067807004585422009-10-17T06:18:53.270+13:002009-10-17T06:18:53.270+13:00Anonymous (Fri Oct 16, 01:20:00 PM NZDT) said: &q...Anonymous (Fri Oct 16, 01:20:00 PM NZDT) said: "All other criticisms of your statement that appear above (and may appear below) are ultimately rooted in jealousy of Mr. Flurry's success -- whatever may be said to the contrary." <br /><br />Yeah, that's it! <br />We are all jealous of his success at the ability to forecast prophecies that fail. <br />We are jealous of his ability to alienate family members from other family members and old friends through his unbiblical "no contact ruling."<br />We are jealous of his ability to extract unreasonable amounts of tithes from his loyal subjects. <br />We are jealous of his ability to claim "Malachi's Message" was revealed to him when it has been clearly documented that he plagiarized it from Jules Dervaes.<br /><br />Yeah, that's it, jealousy, pure and simple!Vaughnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-16869332440655985642009-10-17T04:50:37.064+13:002009-10-17T04:50:37.064+13:00Anonymous 1:20 asserts with great confidence:
&quo...Anonymous 1:20 asserts with great confidence:<br />"All other criticisms of your statement that appear above (and may appear below) are ultimately rooted in jealousy of Mr. Flurry's success -- whatever may be said to the contrary."<br /><br /><br />You know, Anon, as I analyze the shallow little comments you fundamentalists leave here, I am always amazed by how incredibly ARROGANT and ANGRY you always come across as in your written communications – and so mindlessly DOGMATIC, as if once you make your smug assertions, then there is no longer any more room for discussion or dialogue.<br /><br />You know, your comments here on AW are hardly sterling examples of carefully-reasoned responses that completely refute and silence the gainsayers.<br /><br />Why are you folks so fearful of engaging in any kind of CIVILIZED dialogue with educated, articulate folks? Your hero – Jesus of Nazareth – didn’t cowardly shy away from public debate with his verbal adversaries, did he? I know because I’ve meticulously studied the arguing style of Jesus in public settings, especially from the gospel of John.<br /><br />So why do you?Leonardonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-68163388469628932812009-10-17T03:46:25.288+13:002009-10-17T03:46:25.288+13:00Well Mel, it appears our initial gut-instincts abo...Well Mel, it appears our initial gut-instincts about the anonymous flurry supporter just trying to "stir the pot" were correct after all!<br /><br />Oh well!!<br /><br />I guess some folks just don't have anything more constructive to do with their time.Leonardonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-83103754989853495712009-10-17T03:41:54.165+13:002009-10-17T03:41:54.165+13:00I remember Judd Kirk, the fellow with the GTA-like...I remember Judd Kirk, the fellow with the GTA-like pompadour hairdo who always used to lead the song service with great gusto during the Last Great Day video telecast of HWA.<br /><br />The last I heard he was working for the television department and suddenly was off on “medical leave” – which in COG-speak usually meant he had alcohol-related issues. I’ve never heard from him since. But the following link may provide some information for those interested.<br /><br />http://www.thejournal.org/<br />in-transition/v3issue1/judd-kirk-fights<br />-alcohol-abuse.htmlLeonardonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-67740998551171293882009-10-17T02:33:46.480+13:002009-10-17T02:33:46.480+13:00Carolyn said:"Too many are stuck in the rut o...Carolyn said:"Too many are stuck in the rut of physical thinking. Since flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God, genetics are meaningless."<br /><br />Although, what comes next is completely unproven and ultimately a matter of faith alone, I would like to say, "Amen Carolyn."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-87301349945363121232009-10-16T23:24:07.612+13:002009-10-16T23:24:07.612+13:00Carolyn, in one sense one must agree with you. Ea...Carolyn, in one sense one must agree with you. Each of us has an equal shot at the next life. But you quote Paul's, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female...."<br /><br />By no means does that remove physical distinctions or ancient callings. Male and female still exist, and apart from political correctness, are obvious and important differences, as are those between bond and free, Jew and Greek.<br /><br />Jesus lived Jewish, but severely excoriated certain Pharisees for making proselytes of otherwise quite acceptable non-Jews; and Paul bent over backwards to prove that as a Jew he was still observant of Jewish law -- although he worked just as hard to persuade non-Jews away from the heresy that conversion to Judaism (circumcision) was necessary to obtain the next life, or even to be better people.<br /><br />Moses' argument to save Jacob's offspring was that if God wiped them out, people would always say that God was unable to permanently save His people from Egypt. The argument prevailed and Israel therefore did not, has not, nor will she ever lose her calling.<br /><br />One of the most important responsibilities of the Messiah will be to return the entire House of Israel from its present exile to its ancient birthright -- The Promised Land. Until that happens, God will not have finished the liberation begun during the lifetimes of Moses and Joshua. If it doesn't happen, people will always say....<br /><br />In other words, meaningful distinctions will always exist, but in no way do they impair one's acceptability to God or for the hereafter.Content Former Memberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00483196261657783472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-89141483965048911432009-10-16T22:37:57.453+13:002009-10-16T22:37:57.453+13:00Re Judd Kirk
http://www.thejournal.org/in-transit...Re Judd Kirk<br /><br />http://www.thejournal.org/in-transition/v3issue1/judd-kirk-fights-alcohol-abuse.html<br /><br />Re Flurry being humble? I know very well some of the ministry in his "church" and they are anything but humble. I would be fairly certain humble is not a word many would use to describe Flurry. Or Herbert. Or Garner Ted. Or Weinland. etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-77185788882842711482009-10-16T18:34:38.343+13:002009-10-16T18:34:38.343+13:00Flurry & end-time events
predict rain often...<b>Flurry & end-time events</b><br /><br /><br /><br />predict rain often enough and you'll eventually be right....doesn't mean you really knew when it was going to rain though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-38397792163284093572009-10-16T14:03:57.723+13:002009-10-16T14:03:57.723+13:00I remember Judd Kirk. I thought he bore an uncanny...I remember Judd Kirk. I thought he bore an uncanny resemblance to Ted Armstrong. I don't know if he tried to look that way or if it just came naturally. In any event, I believe he left the church, joined the Navy, went to officer training, and is now Captain Kirk, stationed aboard the USS Enterprise.Jethronoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-36790732137583467582009-10-16T13:34:43.026+13:002009-10-16T13:34:43.026+13:00Content Former Member said:
"somewhere on ear...Content Former Member said:<br />"somewhere on earth there still exist millions of Jacob’s descendants who even now, not even knowing who they are"<br /><br />Since «There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.» one's genetic makeup is immaterial. «And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.»<br /><br />Too many are stuck in the rut of physical thinking. Since flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God, genetics are meaningless.Carolynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739092264483620130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-34095149230953966022009-10-16T13:20:51.714+13:002009-10-16T13:20:51.714+13:00Ridicule as you wish, but Mr. Flurry joins the lis...Ridicule as you wish, but Mr. Flurry joins the list of those who were first ridiculed, only to have their genius appreciated later:<br /><br />Galileo & heliocentricity;<br />Pasteur & germ theory;<br />Wright and flying machines<br /><br />Flurry & end-time events<br /><br />-------------------<br /><br />I take great offense at associating genius with Mr. Flurry. Any "genius" associated with Mr. Flurry comes from God working through his servant! I know Mr. Flurry would agree with all humility!<br /><br />All other criticisms of your statement that appear above (and may appear below) are ultimately rooted in jealousy of Mr. Flurry's success -- whatever may be said to the contrary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-30785595002686671202009-10-16T10:47:01.925+13:002009-10-16T10:47:01.925+13:00Hey Retired Prof, I appreciated the account you ga...Hey Retired Prof, I appreciated the account you gave about Lynn Torrance in your article.<br /><br />I just did some checking on the Internet and found out that Dr. Torrance passed away in September of 2004, and apparently was a member of Meredith's Living Church of God. I presumed he was still alive and living in the Big Sandy area, because I think someone told me that some time ago.<br /><br />You wrote in your article about him:<br />“He wanted us to understand that even the smallest decisions about sentence structure, word choice, and punctuation are worth considering. When we revise, they are worth reconsidering. That lesson was a good one. I profited from it. But I profited even more from the lesson Torrance taught by example to this teacher-to-be: when confronted with a young smartass, it is generally worthwhile to exercise a little forbearance.”<br /><br />And I have profited from it as well. I wish I could have gotten to know him better than I did. I never had him as an instructor at AC, nor did I ever hear him give a sermon once in all the years I was out in Pasadena.Leonardonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-31642554735303954712009-10-16T10:41:39.769+13:002009-10-16T10:41:39.769+13:00"We are walking into the future with our eyes..."We are walking into the future with our eyes firmly fixed on the past".<br /><br />Methinks we are not becoming Duggery but Doddery.<br /><br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />JorgheinzAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-20718739212573067152009-10-16T08:20:40.228+13:002009-10-16T08:20:40.228+13:00Leonardo said...
Yes, bad management was endemic ...<b>Leonardo said...<br /><br />Yes, bad management was endemic at HQ, especially in the old days. And yet it was just a predictable outgrowth of HWA’s “God’s Government from the top down” doctrine, otherwise known in the real world as tyranny, that has proved so destructive in peoples lives. <br /><br />Many older employees I worked with would tell me stories from such times. They often referred to it as the “shut-up and do it!” style of management.</b><br /><br /><br />Religion in general seems to reward the nutcases, they are seen as "zealous" or "on fire for God" rather than unbalanced and unstable or sociopathic. I mean how else can you explain the leader of Iran? His own people hate him.<br /><br />If Herbie and his minions had succeeded in creating their version of the World Tomorrow, it would have had the same sort of knuckleheads. AMERICAN KABUKIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11064036099785125749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-76459297240517919142009-10-16T07:05:23.402+13:002009-10-16T07:05:23.402+13:00Retired Prof, I went out and read your article “Tw...Retired Prof, I went out and read your article “Two Campus Encounters.”<br /><br />In the first part of it you talk of “bad management style.”<br /><br />Yes, bad management was endemic at HQ, especially in the old days. And yet it was just a predictable outgrowth of HWA’s “God’s Government from the top down” doctrine, otherwise known in the real world as tyranny, that has proved so destructive in peoples lives. Many older employees I worked with would tell me stories from such times. They often referred to it as the “shut-up and do it!” style of management.<br /><br />One old-time employee told me a ‘60’s era boss once screamed at him, “If I tell you to go outside in the street and scrub it with a toothbrush, you’ll do it, and in a good attitude!”<br /><br />You know, my work there was between 1982 and 1995, so I must admit that I never had to suffer through such experiences. If I had, I don’t think I would have worked out there as long as I did, and most likely would have been fired for punching out any number of these kinds of bosses!<br /><br />My supervisors ranged anywhere from well-meaning but average to absolutely outstanding. I remember one fellow I worked for named Herb Vierra (I think he’s currently an elder in the UCG). He was an outstanding example of a excellent manager. Like anyone, he had his faults, but on the whole he was a very kind, thoughtful and people-oriented manager, and would only “throw his weight around” when it was absolutely necessary. He was a great guy to work with and for.<br /><br />Yet I completely realize MANY didn’t have such pleasant work memories as I had from their HQ days.Leonardonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-43626305754018249702009-10-16T05:34:54.490+13:002009-10-16T05:34:54.490+13:00Content Former Member said:
"somewhere on ear...Content Former Member said:<br />"somewhere on earth there still exist millions of Jacob’s descendants who even now, not even knowing who they are"<br /><br />I'm not sure Jacob ever existed, let alone even one descendant. Proof? Evidence? No, I thought not.<br /><br />The SkepticAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-62467255097643136572009-10-16T04:43:24.386+13:002009-10-16T04:43:24.386+13:00Bamboo_bends wrote:
"Funny...the men you refe...Bamboo_bends wrote:<br />"Funny...the men you reference were ridiculed by religion."<br /><br /><br />Which I see as clear evidence of the remarkably low level of education many of the folks who make these kinds of "preach and run" comments actually have.<br /><br />Seriously, the commenter probably doesn't even remotely realize that the historical relatives of the fundamentalist brand of religion he or she so ardently supports in modern times actually fought AGAINST such astounding discoveries/inventions as they were first emerging from the brilliant minds who initially made such discoveries.<br /><br />“God intended for us to suffer!” was screamed by the fundamentalists when modern anesthesia was first seriously refined in the 19th century to ease the terrible pain of the crude dental or surgical methods of the time.<br /><br />Benjamin Franklin’s ingenious lightening rod—that he refused to patent and gave to the public free of charge and which saved many a home in his day from potential lightening strikes and their resulting total destruction by fire—was violently opposed by the Christian clergy of the time as being a “tool of the devil” thwarting God’s punishment, which the phenomenon of lightening was viewed as during that period of time. In early 18th century America firemen were legally prevented from putting out home fires caused by lightening strikes because of this superstitious belief that God was punishing the home owner's iniquity.<br /><br />The list can go on indefinitely.<br /><br />Although I couldn’t recommend the work because of other serious flaws it contains, Andrew Dickson White’s two volume “A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom” published in 1896 does document quite thoroughly many of these historical incidences.<br /><br />Perhaps our Flurry-enraptured “preach and run” commentator would like to consult this work for further examples – and to remedy their obvious ignorance!Leonardonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-52942368944306584412009-10-16T04:08:47.086+13:002009-10-16T04:08:47.086+13:00Mel wrote:
"After reading anon's contribu...Mel wrote:<br />"After reading anon's contribution extolling the "genius" of Flurry, I have to wonder if anon does not believe that, but is just stirring the pot in order to get a flurry of rebuttals."<br /><br /><br />You know, Mel, very often that's my initial gut response as well, simply because it's hard for my mind to actually believe people can be so incredibly foolish, self-deluded and inarticulate.<br /><br />But then I remember my own fundamentalist days of zealotry in the WCG, or the terrible day of the Sept. 11th attacks, and I am painfully reminded that yes, people CAN indeed be that incredibly stupid!<br /><br />I can’t really know for sure, but just to be on the safe side, I typically tend to take the “Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes” approach of Proverbs 26:5.<br /><br />And as far as your "flurry of rebuttals" pun, all I can say is a hearty "Oh, brother!" and hear a quick drum roll in the background!Leonardonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-24802808518310391192009-10-15T19:53:04.419+13:002009-10-15T19:53:04.419+13:00After reading anon's contribution extolling th...After reading anon's contribution extolling the "genius" of Flurry, I have to wonder if anon does not believe that, but is just stirring the pot in order to get a flurry of rebuttals.<br /><br />After all, hasn't part of the "genius" of Flurry been order his followers to have no contact with those who were once in Armstrong's church, yet choose to reject Flurry's "authority"?<br /><br />If I'm wrong, then "GOOD FOR YOU!", anon, for stepping out and rejecting Flurry's orders, and may you take many more steps, into less controlling environs.Melnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-20325299645038038162009-10-15T14:26:42.448+13:002009-10-15T14:26:42.448+13:00Mickey, Leonardo @ 7:00 am gives some good info ab...Mickey, Leonardo @ 7:00 am gives some good info about Lynn Torrance. If you'd like another story about him, check my second anecdote in "Two Campus Encounters" at The Painful Truth: http://www.hwarmstrong.com/two-encounters.htmRetired Profnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-8070763453582098912009-10-15T14:16:42.109+13:002009-10-15T14:16:42.109+13:00...you all will see just how right the words that ......you all will see just how right the words that were spoken by Mr. Armstrong and now by Mr. Flurry are going to ring your ears soon!<br /><br />Well I do believe that Mr. Armstrong should have had <a href="http://englishrussia.com?p=659" rel="nofollow">THIS DONE</a> upon his death to put that ring in our ears! We would have has a firm altar in which to worship the apostle Herbert!Vladimir Armstronghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJQhO6AmmjMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-9892062425762768922009-10-15T13:26:23.059+13:002009-10-15T13:26:23.059+13:00Anonymous said...
"you all will see just how ...Anonymous said...<br />"you all will see just how right the words that were spoken by<br />Mr. Armstrong and now by Mr. Flurry are going to ring your ears soon"... <br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7M7-cNOFTc" rel="nofollow">Kind of like old Herbie's and crusty Gerald (the 6-pack prophet) S.E.P</a> gulag? An idea gone wrong and who's expression is one that deviates from the real goal. Brainwashing! <br />~Set in the summer of 1986, hundreds of teenagers have gathered in the<br />woods for Estonian student summer camp—three days full of adventures,<br />falling in love and partying. But, when the teens are forced to comply<br />with rules of proper behavior, camp in a totalitarian system isn’t all<br />it’s cracked up to be. The political metaphor of the counselors’<br />control leads to an uprising of the students. The main character is<br />16-year-old Tanel, who initially is as focused on losing his virginity<br />and getting drunk as overthrowing the system. But taking part in the<br />revolt, he discovers himself.~Mr. Obamahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Maximilianovich_Malenkovnoreply@blogger.com