tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post611499247426855297..comments2023-11-05T20:19:44.812+13:00Comments on Ambassador Watch: Flying in to CincinnatiGavinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03060097218905523899noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-14330286037467666132009-12-02T18:39:18.998+13:002009-12-02T18:39:18.998+13:00Gimme a break. The letter was forwarded in confide...Gimme a break. The letter was forwarded in confidence, and I still am waiting for the OK to put it online. It's not a very good letter. It's not a particularly lucid letter. It's a measure of how things are in UCG, I guess, that the High and Mighty Ones are bothered enough by it to run around in ever decreasing circles.<br /><br />Believe me, you haven't missed much. No names named in the adultery allegations... in fact the writer has a bigger snit over the failure of the Texas move, if I'm reading him right.Gavinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03060097218905523899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-77878895326316753782009-12-02T10:07:31.419+13:002009-12-02T10:07:31.419+13:00When are you posting the letter? This doesn't...When are you posting the letter? This doesn't seem like the type of blog that is afraid of statements being 100% correct before posting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-32411987082830568682009-12-01T19:23:02.927+13:002009-12-01T19:23:02.927+13:00Annonymous said;;;Anonymous said:
"My observa...Annonymous said;;;Anonymous said:<br />"My observation is that this situation will come to a head at some point because the current makeup of the UCG Council does not represent the perspective of the majority of the fulltime ministry of United and the ministers who work within the current UCG administration. They were seemingly, by and large, elected by local elders (who are unpaid)."<br /><br />But these unpaid elders vote represented the majority of the members. My respect goes higly for the elders who are not paid and have a major part in the voting process because they work in the real world. Many are business savy and they felt it necessary to place men in that would better handle the business side of running the church. <br /><br />The decisions that have been made the last few years under the current administration could have bankrupt the church because of the direction they were headed.<br /><br />A heartfelt thankss to these unpaid elders because they serve the brethren on a volunteer basis without a paycheck from United. They also can make a sound decision, and a sound vote without fear of being fired as paid minister have to be concerned about when they cast their votes! The church is better served because of these men who stood in the gap and voted to make a change on the council!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-83729438232135941812009-11-30T01:16:12.846+13:002009-11-30T01:16:12.846+13:00Assuming this has to do with a less than polite El...Assuming this has to do with a less than polite Elder's forum post...when are you going to post it Gavin???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-24872343183088196572009-11-26T00:07:17.823+13:002009-11-26T00:07:17.823+13:00Gavin,
Can you post the above mentioned letter? Si...Gavin,<br />Can you post the above mentioned letter? Since it was mentioned, I'm sure many would like to see what this is all about.<br />Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-22182963752551709662009-11-25T03:50:05.741+13:002009-11-25T03:50:05.741+13:00When you posting the letter? It is an interesting ...When you posting the letter? It is an interesting read, but not supported with facts. <br /><br />Doesn't paint a pretty picture for the new council.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-87761755381097581852009-11-22T06:02:33.770+13:002009-11-22T06:02:33.770+13:00"The event (which was apparently played out i...<em>"The event <strong>(which was apparently played out in Houston rather than Cincinnati)</strong>"</em><br /><br />So your "source" was a deliberately-leaked diversion Gavin. Are you very surprised.<br /><br />Ask yourselves United Church of God members: <strong>Why does the church still practice outright baldfaced lying to "the worldly under Satan's deception"??</strong><br /><br />and here just some time ago on this very blog the UCG elder responsible for trying to convince us that United isn't the same old church we remember, tried to tell us that no such thing had <strong><em>ever</em></strong> happened in the church, past, or present.<br /><br />the cognitive dissonance goes up to 11Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-88324237448393647332009-11-21T10:11:21.207+13:002009-11-21T10:11:21.207+13:00The event (which was apparently played out in Hous...The event (which was apparently played out in Houston rather than Cincinnati) seems pretty much under wraps. AW has a copy of a letter which apparently provoked this situation, but we're keeping it to one side for the moment until things become a bit clearer.Gavinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03060097218905523899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-44614965563456689672009-11-21T10:03:49.369+13:002009-11-21T10:03:49.369+13:00>>Rumors are flying too. To put it diplomati...>>Rumors are flying too. To put it diplomatically, we've heard that a matter of discipline may be involved.<<<<br /><br /><br />A week has passed....<br /><br />No news Yet??<br /><br />Is this a case of........<br /><br /><b>Much ado about nothing</b><br /><br />AnoneemooseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-28677456029611265532009-11-21T05:57:10.211+13:002009-11-21T05:57:10.211+13:00"Didn't Paul once ask, 'Is Christ div..."Didn't Paul once ask, 'Is Christ divided?!'<br /><br />How does one answer that?"<br /><br />Well since James the Jew who upheld law hated Paul who wrote Romans. Since Peter hated Paul and Paul scorned Peter, James and John as reputed pillars,"who they are makes no difference to me...I learned NOTHING from them." Since John hated Peter as no different than Judas and all the Ephesian Jewish Christians hated Paul and left him wondering what was wrong with THEM.....<br /><br />that's the answer. Jesus was divided before the body cooled.M. T. Hallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-61195879342658817012009-11-20T13:44:43.256+13:002009-11-20T13:44:43.256+13:00"Didn't Paul once ask, 'Is Christ div...<em>"Didn't Paul once ask, 'Is Christ divided?!'<br /><br /><strong>How does one answer that?</strong>"</em><br /><br />Absofrakkinglutely!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-25599092821649107352009-11-19T22:35:38.286+13:002009-11-19T22:35:38.286+13:00Didn't Paul once ask, "Is Christ divided?...Didn't Paul once ask, "Is Christ divided?!"<br /><br />How does one answer that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-13558385978401491142009-11-19T22:26:09.317+13:002009-11-19T22:26:09.317+13:00Bamboo quoted and commented on Anon 5:45...
Anon:...Bamboo quoted and commented on Anon 5:45...<br /><br />Anon: "The comments on this blog are disturbing in the sense that we all should have matured enough to realize Yahshua does things through and with people in His Body according to His desires in His own time."<br /><br />Bamboo: "I take it you're a holy-namer? Not many people realize there is a segment of Armstrongists who have gone off into "holy name" land. I wasn't aware they watched this blog."<br /><br />So I looked up Joshua's name in the book named after him. Moses had changed Hoshea's (Hosea's) name to Yehoshua just before Moses' retirement. Centuries later the NT Joseph named his son after the earlier Josephite hero, Joshua (Yehoshua). NT translators kept an anglicized Greek form of the name in our English NTs -- but holy namers won't hear of it. They give Jesus/Joshua/Yehoshua/Yeshua yet another name for who knows why.<br /><br />Yahshua. For holiness?<br /><br />The first Joshua had been a great general, his name was mega-popular during the 1st century (as Yeshua or Yehoshua) as it is to this day (as Joshua). Imagine the looks one would get, during the conquest of Canaan, by calling Moses' successor "General (Aluf) Yahshua."<br /><br />My guess is that Jesus' mom probably called him something more like Shuy, or even Chuy, like Latina mothers call their little Jesuses. And I'll lay you a dollar to a doughnut that she never called him Yahshua.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-86475806480190808262009-11-19T05:55:52.587+13:002009-11-19T05:55:52.587+13:00Anonymous said...
The comments on this blog a...<b>Anonymous said...<br /><br /> The comments on this blog are disturbing in the sense that we all should have matured enough to realize Yahshua does things through and with people in His Body according to His desires in His own time.</b><br /><br />I take it you're a holy-namer? Not many people realize there is a segment of Armstrongists who have gone off into "holy name" land. I wasn't aware they watched this blog. AMERICAN KABUKIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11064036099785125749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-717151069394511002009-11-19T05:45:31.575+13:002009-11-19T05:45:31.575+13:00Anon 10:37 says "we all should have matured e...Anon 10:37 says "we all should have matured enough to realize Yahshua does things through and with people in His Body according to His desires in His own time". Geez, this guy is into it DEEP. Where do they get this stuff? Of course, it's only the result of mental gymnastics in their own minds. They can't provide any evidence whatsoever.<br /><br />Anon 10:37, I've matured to the point where I realize you guys are making it all up. "Yahshua", aka "Jesus Christ", aka "a fraud perpetuated thousands of years ago that still persists", aka "a figment of your imagination", is NOT doing what you claim. Wake up and realize it.<br /><br />The SkepticAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-72641116829580649012009-11-18T20:54:27.797+13:002009-11-18T20:54:27.797+13:00Anon 10:37:00 AM stated-
"See...He implies we...Anon 10:37:00 AM stated-<br />"See...He implies we are to dwell in the synagogues (fellowships) until we are booted out"<br /><br />Interesting concept.<br />I'm not sure I'm reading you right, though.<br /><br />Are you one who didn't believe in the WCG's "changes", yet stayed there and spoke out against them until you were booted out?<br /><br />And have you attended other congregations, telling them they are wrong about this-n-that, until they booted you out? <br /><br />Something tells me that may be true, but I could be wrong. <br />You aren't Tom M. by any chance, are you? That would explain a couple of things.<br /><br />Anyhow, I personally don't see how such actions achieve much of anything other than the person self-righteously high-fiving himself.Melnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-36161805675742079262009-11-18T10:37:58.440+13:002009-11-18T10:37:58.440+13:00The comments on this blog are disturbing in the se...The comments on this blog are disturbing in the sense that we all should have matured enough to realize Yahshua does things through and with people in His Body according to His desires in His own time. He is the One who stated the wheat and tares would dwell together until His return, to rail against the tares is to rail against Him because He is the one who allows them to dwell with the wheat for reasons that we cannot understand but that accomplish His purpose.<br /><br />I realize I probably will be called self-righteous for this post, but hey, we all need to be lights, especially to those who dwell among us...there is a light in the household as well as a light to the world. I suggest we pray for positive outcomes, because as flawed as all of the W(CoGs) are, they have and still are, being used by Yahshua for growth in His Body. <br /><br />See...He implies we are to dwell in the synagogues (fellowships) until we are booted out, could this be because we need to develop patience, mercy, compassion...love, even for those who do evil? I think so. He did for us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-61090819914316933882009-11-17T20:43:18.526+13:002009-11-17T20:43:18.526+13:00Anon said,
"The only members in UCG are the...Anon said, <br /><br />"The only members in UCG are the paid ministers. Go read the by-laws. The average rank-and-file tithepayer is not legally a member. This has been discussed time and again on this forum AND in UCG publications/services.<br /><br />The paid ministry will act in their own self-interest every time, screwing the individual tithe payer if it serves the ministry to do so."<br /><br />A subset of the UCG ministry as defined in the bylaws constitute the controlling legal membership of the UCG Association. The UCG definition excludes the laity from the prerogatives of legal membership in the UCG Association. They don't count. <br /><br />Questeruk said, <br /><br />"...but my statement was describing the reality of the situation, not some ‘legal definition’.<br /><br />I am sure that you actually do understand that I was not using the ‘legal definition’, but instead what is in reality a ‘sensible’ definition of an organisation – that ‘members’ of an organisation are the people that support and identify with that organisation.<br /><br />When WCG was a corporation sole you could say legally there was only one member, HWA himself. But it would not be realistic to say that WCG had only one member, when for years there were over 100,000 attending the FOT, a good percentage of which supported and identified with the organisation, and considered themselves to be members."<br /><br />While loyal Worldwiders might generally have considers themselves members in an informal sense, in reality they had no legal standing whatever as corporate members in the Radio/WCG organizations. And those same loyalists still don't have standing in Tkach Jr.'s WCG/GCI!<br /><br />Only the appointed members of Armstrong's COE Church Association had any legal standing in the WCG, subject to Armstrong's whim of dismissal from his 'Council of Evil'. <br /><br />It could be fairly said that the WCG was legally a ONE-member church when he created the WCG corporate sole, which he utilized to try to legally evade the fraud investigation of his California WCG Church Association with COE. <br /><br />The WCG Church Association is the pinnacle legal structure that controls everything- the Colleges, 1947 California church business corporation, and other affiliated WCG legal entities. The renamed Church Association still does control over what remains of WCG/GCI. <br /><br />HWA used a WCG corporate sole as the ultimate form of one-man, one-member control during the receivership.<br /><br />However, the secretly held Pasadena WCG Church Association bylaws also gave him control as the one-man, one-member as a de facto god who controlled all in the WCG. <br />The COE was mostly there as window dressing and as a administrative convenience. The COEs had no authority independent of Armstrong, who could fire all of them and revoke their standing as legal members of both the WCG Church Assocation and of its subordinate California religious corporation. <br /><br />Tkach Jr. is enjoying the same lifetime Church Assocation control structure that the portly octagenarian Armstrong did. <br /><br />The present WCG/GCI claims to take the fiduciary responsibilities of the COE quite seriously. <br />But no complete or periodic WCG financial statements are issued by the Church Association, which is a red flag for fraud. <br /> <br />Tkach Jr. retains the same core Church Association bylaws Armstrong had when he appointed his father eternal Pastor General. So in reality, despite Tkach talk of consensus, the lengthy US Church Administrative Manual, and renaming the WCG, Tkach Jr. is legally running a one-man, one-member church. Just as Armstrong was the only legal de facto member of the COG, multimillionaire Tkach's Jr.'s vote in the Church Association is the one vote that really, legally counts in his sect. <br /><br />Stan GardnerStan Gardnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-59569617568113407462009-11-17T16:29:21.776+13:002009-11-17T16:29:21.776+13:00Anonymous said...
"At least we weren't to...Anonymous said...<br />"At least we weren't told to commit suicide - and I'm sure some or all of us would have if HWA had said so."<br /><br /><br /><i>only those that were following the man....</i>.<br /><br />Who, not that. only those who were following the man, which they/we all were. Otherwise we would not be the victims of all the false doctrines and prophecies of that man.<br /><br />You cannot say that you weren't fooled, conned, duped by that man either, since you still are.Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-64372190800183961752009-11-17T13:07:13.094+13:002009-11-17T13:07:13.094+13:00Half the people who take up space at the UCG meet...Half the people who take up space at the UCG meetings would be a complete disgrace to any church anywhere.<br /><br />And the other half would not be associating with the first half unless there were something wrong with them too.<br /><br />The UCG should hurry up and go back into the world, and stop wasting everyone's time by pretending to care about truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-85195527060349609602009-11-17T11:40:04.738+13:002009-11-17T11:40:04.738+13:00Questeruk said...
Basically an organisation c...<b>Questeruk said...<br /><br /> Basically an organisation consists of its members</b><br /><br /><br />The "organization" is a control structure wrapped around its members. Its sole purpose is to control its members and take their money in exchange for sermons once a week that tell them how really rotten they are and how much they need the control structure (by men who face moral censure - if I read between the lines correctly) in order to know God. <br /><br />They COGs have always been more diligent about enforcing "morality" on the members than on the control structure. The control structure might even go as far as to bury the moral problems so that the members don't lose faith in the control structure.<br /><br />When they speak of scripture, they put themselves in the place of God. When they speak of their own weaknesses - well suddenly they "only human" just like the members.<br /><br />What I'd like to know is where is "the only human" part when they make absurd prophecies and put forth onerous edicts that really only amount to one man's opionion of scripture and lifestyle. AMERICAN KABUKIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11064036099785125749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-67680225609450703602009-11-17T10:41:13.290+13:002009-11-17T10:41:13.290+13:00Just look at the conduct of Richard Pinelli throug...<em>Just look at the conduct of <strong>Richard Pinelli</strong> through the years, and how the organization refused to stop him time and again.</em><br /><br />Richard Pinelli! Now there's a blast from the past! He used to be (in)famous for being one-half of what was referred to as the Scourge of Toronto --- Pinelli and Earle on your doorstep was a sure sign of "trials and tribulations" shortly to come!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-53244565477262846972009-11-17T10:36:47.366+13:002009-11-17T10:36:47.366+13:00"Wishing ill upon thousands of peoples lives,...<em>"Wishing ill upon thousands of peoples lives, based on a rumour, was what I was objecting to."</em><br /><br />I wasn't wishing them ill, Questeruk, I wish all eleven thousand members of the United Church of God had their freedom. And I include you in that wish as well.PurpleHymnalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-3798418395892014512009-11-17T09:35:02.052+13:002009-11-17T09:35:02.052+13:00Leonardo, it is the height of insincerity and igno...Leonardo, it is the height of insincerity and ignorance to equate in any manner, good and decent people with the most hideously evil people of all time.<br /><br />Please refrain from such nonsense.larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207263922457941293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-43758870884735049692009-11-17T07:48:33.485+13:002009-11-17T07:48:33.485+13:00UCG Member Here
Does anyone know whey they are as...UCG Member Here<br /><br />Does anyone know whey they are assembling in Cincinnati? What are the issues and trouble brewing?<br /><br />Also Anon 5:46 Relax. There is only one body and one spirit if you believe the scripture. If you don't, there is no purpose to post and complain. Sounds like you are a local elder who wants to stick it to the administration. No body forces anyone to tithe and not be a member. <br /><br />For all those that think UCG and some other CoGs are cults, no body forces us to attend, give offerings or believe the commandments should be kept. <br /><br />As for BI, what does it have to do with salvation? Jesus stated there are two great commandments Love God, Love your fellow man. BI is interesting but is not salvational!<br />People should relax and become God like and not full of hatred. Most posts on this site in my opinion are hateful and of satan. I enjoy reading what others say and think and don't get my "panties" in a wad for the crazy comments. <br /><br />So can any one explain what the issues are going on in UCG? <br /><br />I have about 10 complaints but would like to get it worked out in UCG before posting on AW. This site is useful in keeping some the CoGs in line so all the dirt, and they know what dirt is coming to the surface.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com