tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post4288164726731726644..comments2023-11-05T20:19:44.812+13:00Comments on Ambassador Watch: Hark the HQ Honchos SingGavinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03060097218905523899noreply@blogger.comBlogger131125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-20139623140320596582008-12-20T11:30:00.000+13:002008-12-20T11:30:00.000+13:00Is it just me or do they look like ZZ Top - the ea...Is it just me or do they <BR/><BR/>look like ZZ Top -<BR/> <BR/>the early years?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Dill WeedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-55090687682066287292008-12-19T18:37:00.000+13:002008-12-19T18:37:00.000+13:00Skeptic's Annotated Bible is an excellent example ...Skeptic's Annotated Bible is an excellent example of where "critical", or "objective" thinking will get you.<BR/><BR/>Two approaches towards the Bible come to mind. One, is that of attempting to prove it wrong, deliberately looking for excuses to discard it. The other is to look for perfectly logical and very plausable explanations for alleged contradictions. I'm sure there are other approaches, but those two are the most prevalent on ACOG related sites. Basically, given the human mind, an entity that messes with itself, you're probably going to find whatever you are looking for. And, as always, your mileage may vary.<BR/><BR/>Regarding the contradictions of eye witness reports, it's fairly obvious that nobody who posts here has ever worked in law enforcement. To me, the fact that there are conflicting memories lends authenticity to the reports of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. If all four gospels had no such conflicts, it would lend credibility to the theory that the Catholics made all of this stuff up.<BR/><BR/>BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-60350587441460600192008-12-19T15:45:00.000+13:002008-12-19T15:45:00.000+13:00...uncountable thousands of critically thinking th...<EM>...uncountable thousands of critically thinking theologians and laymen who have taken their accounts to be literally true, and find no insuperable contradictions in their accounts...</EM><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/contra_list.html" REL="nofollow">Contradictions in Luke</A><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/contra_list.html" REL="nofollow">Contradictions in Matthew</A><BR/><BR/>Any questions?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-71787924502658521392008-12-19T04:38:00.000+13:002008-12-19T04:38:00.000+13:00Are you saying while legends are not literally tru...<I>Are you saying while legends are not literally true or unknowable in the details we can learn....</I><BR/><BR/>Legends sometimes are literally true, even if actually unknowable in the details, and they always have something to teach us. “Legend” (Latin “legenda,” “readings”) in its proper sense means an old story that has been written down, but which cannot be completely substantiated, or can’t be substantiated at all – it could be a true story or it could be fiction.<BR/><BR/><I>Or do you believe that Adam, Eve, Cain and Abel were our literal first human family created as Genesis says a relatively short time ago in the expanse of history?</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, I believe Adam, Eve, Cain, and Abel really existed, though I think they may not have called themselves by those names: I kind of doubt the first humans spoke Hebrew or a Hebrew-like language, though who knows. I don’t think we can be sure when the first human family lived on earth, but I think it’s not impossible, if perhaps not very likely, they may have been created a relatively short time ago as you put it.<BR/><BR/><I>Sincere question. Is it literally true?</I><BR/><BR/>Could be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-16504452559577973962008-12-19T03:51:00.000+13:002008-12-19T03:51:00.000+13:00No, Dennis. Critical thinking is real, and has it...No, Dennis. Critical thinking is real, and has its proper applications. So does objective thinking.<BR/><BR/>I am certain that you and one or two others actually know what these terms mean. But, it often seems that just as in the days of Armstrongism, we have a number of parrots who seize on these terms and gleefully repeat them simply to gain points for their side. These terms are becoming overused and are often being substituted for more substantive debate. The ones holding their noses in the air are the ones implying that Christians suffer from lack of intellect, or are incapable of any level of rational thought. This is nothing new. Democrats and Republicans often use the same tactics on one another, when the fact is that there are intelligent Democrats, and there are intelligent Republicans.<BR/><BR/>I didn't intend to trash anybody. I'm simply calling a "bluff". I knew when I posted what I posted that some would take exception.<BR/><BR/>BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-89555245483391131862008-12-18T19:27:00.001+13:002008-12-18T19:27:00.001+13:00Byker Bob said... This critical thinking thing is ...Byker Bob said... <BR/>This critical thinking thing is nothing more than psychobabble parrotted by those with an atheist agenda. You can easily visualize a nose being pushed up into the air every time that phrase is uttered."<BR/><BR/>I'm surprised at you Bob. That'a about the most judgmental and shallow observation I have heard you make. Do you not think critically anymore? Do you have a Christian agenda and Christobabble your way through your discussions? Do you do it with your nose in the air every time you use uncritical thinking? I hope you see I'm being a bit facetous. <BR/><BR/>"Bottom line: It's simply a new filter, a condescending put-down, designed to tune out or marginalize the spiritual, usually when someone has run out of legitimate arguments. I used to use it myself, but now realize just how bogus and misapplied it can often be."<BR/><BR/>Pretty darn sweeping all or nothing statment with some glittering generalities thrown in for good measure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-64558774024775998192008-12-18T14:06:00.000+13:002008-12-18T14:06:00.000+13:00My guess is we were so eager to toss Easter in the...My guess is we were so eager to toss Easter in the rubbish bin that we forgot that “lilies” were a Christian symbol of Christ’s resurrection. Either that, or we wanted to eliminate a reference to the celebration of the resurrection, which we erroneously believed to be unbiblical, and reworded the hymn so it would proclaim our belief that Jesus was born in autumn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-84087028973913039072008-12-18T11:59:00.000+13:002008-12-18T11:59:00.000+13:00This critical thinking thing is nothing more than ...This critical thinking thing is nothing more than psychobabble parrotted by those with an atheist agenda. You can easily visualize a nose being pushed up into the air every time that phrase is uttered.<BR/><BR/>Bottom line: It's simply a new filter, a condescending put-down, designed to tune out or marginalize the spiritual, usually when someone has run out of legitimate arguments. I used to use it myself, but now realize just how bogus and misapplied it can often be.<BR/><BR/>BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-79426607016697495362008-12-18T10:14:00.000+13:002008-12-18T10:14:00.000+13:00Hi Jared,I have read your article on CAIN AND HIS ...Hi Jared,<BR/>I have read your article on CAIN AND HIS FAMILY.<BR/><BR/>Are you saying while legends and not literally true or unknowable in the details we can learn.... Or do you believe that Adam, Eve, Cain and Abel were our literal first human family created as Genesis says a relatively short time ago in the expanse of history?<BR/><BR/>Sincere question. Is it literally true?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-56582333869045784942008-12-18T00:44:00.000+13:002008-12-18T00:44:00.000+13:00Jared Olar said... “..there have been and still ar...Jared Olar said... <BR/><BR/>“..there have been and still are uncountable thousands of critically thinking theologians and laymen who have taken their accounts to be literally true, and find no insuperable contradictions in their accounts…”<BR/><BR/>Hi Jared – nice to have someone talk a bit of sense here, and remind people of the facts of the matter.<BR/><BR/><BR/>“The verse in The Battle Hymn of the Republic is a reference to the resurrection of Christ, not His nativity in Bethlehem: “In the beauty of the lilies” (in springtime) “Christ was born” (reborn) “across the sea with a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me.”<BR/><BR/>Not being a native of the States, I never realised that the words had been changed. But I also had no idea anyone thought it was referring to the birth of Christ anyway.<BR/><BR/>Even with changed words, it’s pretty obvious that it is referring to the resurrection. You wonder how anyone could think this was referring to Christ’s birth.Questerukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06659962107808147107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-7019820006094259002008-12-17T08:19:00.000+13:002008-12-17T08:19:00.000+13:00We did sing one verse about the birth of Christ. I...<I>We did sing one verse about the birth of Christ. I'm not sure the people really knew they were singing about it though.</I><BR/><BR/>The verse in The Battle Hymn of the Republic is a reference to the resurrection of Christ, not His nativity in Bethlehem: “In the beauty of the lilies” (in springtime) “Christ was born” (reborn) “across the sea with a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me.” (that transfiguring glory was not there at his birth: it was manifested when He rose again in glory: just before He died, Jesus prayed that the Father would give Him again the glory He had before He came into the world). But we misunderstood the hymn, taking it literally, and assumed it was a reference to Christ being born in springtime, so we stupidly changed it to “In the beauty of the autumn” based on our speculation that Jesus was born on or near the Feast of Trumpets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-60158011381545619722008-12-17T08:13:00.000+13:002008-12-17T08:13:00.000+13:00No critically thinking theologian or layman would ...<I>No critically thinking theologian or layman would ever be tempted to take the contradictory accounts of Jesus birth in Matthew and Luke literally true.</I><BR/><BR/>On the contrary, there have been and still are uncountable thousands of critically thinking theologians and laymen who have taken their accounts to be literally true, and find no insuperable contradictions in their accounts (St. Matthew has no account of Jesus’ birth, by the way, only an account of how it came about and what happened soon after). What you mean is that in your opinion you don’t think they are critically thinking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-29127189790795255362008-12-16T22:45:00.000+13:002008-12-16T22:45:00.000+13:00"Christmas is wonderful as a winter festival that ...<EM>"Christmas is wonderful as a winter festival that has nothing to do with Jesus. It is a grand celebration that should be divorced entirely from Christianity.<BR/><BR/>There is no need to celebrate Jesus birth at a winter festival, no need at all!"</EM><BR/><BR/>Amen! Or should that be Amun? ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-50254479762044112532008-12-16T22:44:00.000+13:002008-12-16T22:44:00.000+13:00"I'm not sure the people really knew they were sin...<EM>"I'm not sure the people really knew they were singing about it though."</EM><BR/><BR/>My point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-5032840174684757932008-12-16T19:57:00.000+13:002008-12-16T19:57:00.000+13:00"Because of the "NON" celebration of Christmas, th..."Because of the "NON" celebration of Christmas, the whole birth of Christ story was not taught in the old WCG, nor is it much mentioned in the splinter churches literature.'<BR/><BR/>That is a good thing; that the old WCG never really taught about Jesus' birth. <BR/><BR/>Jesus was a just a man, not God. Not even a little bit God. He was a teacher and possibly a prophet who taught the things of God.<BR/><BR/>Why celebrate his birthday. He never said to. That is Catholic thing.<BR/><BR/>Christmas is wonderful as a winter festival that has nothing to do with Jesus. It is a grand celebration that should be divorced entirely from Christianity.<BR/><BR/>There is no need to celebrate Jesus birth at a winter festival, no need at all!<BR/><BR/>In fact long long ago, long before Israel and Judah, and long before Egypt; God gave the various peoples on this earth winter, spring, summer and autumn festivals. <BR/><BR/>Every culture on earth has its seasonal festivals. One has to ask why?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-7892170439200122422008-12-16T14:34:00.000+13:002008-12-16T14:34:00.000+13:00You mean the fact that the idiots corrupted the or...You mean the fact that the idiots corrupted the original words of the Battle Hymn of the Republic to suit Armstrongite doctrine?<BR/><BR/>(original words):<BR/><BR/>"In the beauty of the lilies, Christ was born across the sea, With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me, As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free, While God is marching on."<BR/><BR/>If they didn't like the words, they should have written their own danged hymns! Oops! Fergot! They actually did that!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-71729840448970445412008-12-16T12:48:00.000+13:002008-12-16T12:48:00.000+13:00You got me!We did sing one verse about the birth o...You got me!<BR/>We did sing one verse about the birth of Christ.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure the people really knew they were singing about it though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-24261504292610090412008-12-16T11:09:00.000+13:002008-12-16T11:09:00.000+13:00"So, if the angels worshipped and celebrated His b...<EM>"So, if the angels worshipped and celebrated His birth, WHY WOULDN'T we? If not on December 25th, why not another time???? hmmm?"</EM><BR/><BR/><STRONG>"In the beauty of the autumn, Christ was born across the sea/With a glory in his bosom that transfigures you and me/As he lives to make men holy let us live to make free!/While God is marching on."</STRONG><BR/><BR/>Does that answer your question? I personally think it speaks volumes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-91172089468867733322008-12-16T05:04:00.000+13:002008-12-16T05:04:00.000+13:00And one more thing...Because of the "NON" celebrat...And one more thing...<BR/><BR/>Because of the "NON" celebration of Christmas, the whole birth of Christ story was not taught in the old WCG, nor is it much mentioned in the splinter churches literature.<BR/><BR/>If you read the bible, and read of the birth of our savior, you will notice the ANGELS sang at His birth. This is called worship and celebration.<BR/><BR/>So, if the angels worshipped and celebrated His birth, WHY WOULDN'T we? If not on December 25th, why not another time???? hmmm?<BR/><BR/>I think HWA and the current "government(s)" of splinters are for some reason creeped out at the idea of recognizing, celebrating or teaching about the birth of Christ because of how/why "other" religions or churches handle it. <BR/><BR/>It's messed up! But typical!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-12657561126776015132008-12-16T04:32:00.000+13:002008-12-16T04:32:00.000+13:00I'll answer my own question since nobody has comme...I'll answer my own question since nobody has commented. The reason the old WCG and now the splinter churches still maintain they are NOT to celebrate Christmas really has VERY LITTLE to do with the pagan origin. It is literally about "church government". <BR/><BR/>The BASIC FUNDAMENTAL truth about the old WCG and now the splinters is not the Bible; But "The Government of God's Church". Yes, they read and try to follow scripture as taught by the government of the church; NOT by the leadership of the Holy Spirit in their own lives. They follow the laws and teachings of the "Government" of God's church. (their view)<BR/><BR/>The Government (HWA) told them NOT to celebrate Christmas because of pagan origins and because it came out of the church of the "day" which was the beginnings of the Catholic Church. For those reasons HWA made the decision that no one should celebrate it. <BR/><BR/>Because he was the "head" of the government of the church of God, he (HWA) had the authority to make that decision. The average membership doesn't question "leadership" so there is where it stands. Government rules, people follow believing their obedience to the government is what saves them or brings their rewards in the end.<BR/><BR/>Nevertheless, pagan origins are ALL around us. They were ALL around in those days too. It is hypocritical to say Christmas' origins are why to avoid it and yet still partake of other pagan originated things. <BR/><BR/>And avoiding things just because another "church," even if you consider it a false church is not biblical either.<BR/><BR/>Temples and alters were used by pagan religions WAY BEFORE Israel began to use them in their worship of God. Dancing was part of pagan worship way before King David danced in worship through the streets.<BR/><BR/>The avoidance of Christmas by the old WCG and now splinter churches is ALL about following government.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-23784937568856298312008-12-14T07:23:00.000+13:002008-12-14T07:23:00.000+13:00This topic was about Christmas wasn't it?Doesn't a...This topic was about Christmas wasn't it?<BR/><BR/>Doesn't anyone want to comment on the pagan origins of OTHER things they (we) ALL partake in? Should we NOT be partaking in ANYTHING with a pagan origin?<BR/><BR/>Do those pagan origins matter at ALL to those who use the pagan origin as a reason NOT to celebrate Christmas?<BR/><BR/>If you disregard the pagan origin's of Christmas,as you (we) do in other things, what OTHER reason is there NOT to celebrate Christmas?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-17353922497600176592008-12-14T07:17:00.000+13:002008-12-14T07:17:00.000+13:00I guess it is a good thing you never saw the bad b...I guess it is a good thing you never saw the bad behavior in the church if you are being honest with us and yourself. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.<BR/><BR/>But I can tell you this...<BR/><BR/>It happened. ALOT!<BR/><BR/>Here are just 3 examples. I spent 30+ years too. My father and father in law "were" and still "are" Preaching Elders in splinters.... I have bloodlines within the very beginings of WCG.<BR/><BR/>#1. We were on a "showboat" at the Feast. WCG had reserved the entire boat for the church. It was a triple decker. The manager of the boat decided because it was a "religious organization" only ONE bar would suffice. Of course it was on the lowest level. (there were actually ONE bar on each level but the manager only hired ONE bar tender). WOO! YOU should have heard the complaints from the church membership. And by the end of the night the ONE bar had OUTSOLD in product ANY other night of the year. We were some of the last to leave and I heard the bar tender saying, "Wow! For religious people, those folks can really party!" I didn't drink anything for health reasons. But needless to say, there were very many intoxicated people on that showboat. <BR/><BR/>#2. I was in a restaurant in our hometown once eating lunch with NON WCG family member and we heard the waitress (who didn't know us) refer to our pastor as the biggest drunk preacher she knew! What a testimony!<BR/><BR/>#3. I went to S.E.P. It was a terrific experience. But it was the first time I saw "Pot" and teenagers "making out", "hickey's on necks". For some teens it was perfect. For other's it was a place their parents sent their troubled teens (who of course brought their troubles to S.E.P).<BR/><BR/>#4 (just to add one more)<BR/>A very close friend of mine living in another state finally went to "group" counseling and guess what? She ran into another WCG member there. That member was a woman who was finally coming to grips with the fact that her father (member) had molested her throughout her teens. The mother (also a WCG member) was emotionally vacant and didn't do anything. This girl had emotional problems and had been kicked out of the church as a "bad attitude". Hopefully, with therapy, her life is getting better. My friend and I haven't discussed this lady in a couple of years.<BR/><BR/>Here's the point. ALL churches have problems. I just hate it when WCG people try to act like nothing bad happened there. It's a joke that isn't believable or funny.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-58865980844503022572008-12-14T04:50:00.000+13:002008-12-14T04:50:00.000+13:00HWA decided (since he was the Apostle) we didn't h...<I>HWA decided (since he was the Apostle) we didn't have to quite observe it as Israel was commanded. We, as modern WCG members, could sort of "make our own" ways of observance. God revealed it to HWA I believe. (sheesh)<BR/><BR/>Well guess what???! Orthodox Jews still Keep it the way scripture says ... they actually build "booths"... they don't fly to Hawaii and spend thousands of dollars on themselves to "reflect" the blessings of God's Kingdom.</I><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>Nobody is telling you to follow a man. Next fall, get out there and build a booth or buy a tent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-409141885568305742008-12-14T04:49:00.000+13:002008-12-14T04:49:00.000+13:00"The crazies that you are now siding with are no b...<EM>"The crazies that you are now siding with are no better than the WCG people who behaved badly."</EM><BR/><BR/>That's the thing, Tom. I side with no one. I question everything (and everyone) I encounter, and I "believe" nothing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-920456072220719892008-12-13T19:59:00.000+13:002008-12-13T19:59:00.000+13:00Anon 06:54, if you hate to call anyone a liar, the...Anon 06:54, if you hate to call anyone a liar, then don't.<BR/><BR/>No, I never saw the behavior that you seem to think was so common. And the fact that I NEVER saw it would tend to suggest that it wasn't "common". <BR/><BR/>I never attended SEP, but my children did. And I have never heard any reports from them about inappropriate activity. Actually, quite the opposite. <BR/><BR/>Is it really so hard for you to accept that some people ARE just what they say they are, and appear to be??<BR/><BR/>The issues that I have seen over the years that have divided the Church (at least among the membership) have been more about doctrine, virtually never about character. <BR/> So, when I read these posts describing all this villainous and unsavory activity on the part of church members, it suggests to me that there is an element of a phenomenon known as 'projection'.larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207263922457941293noreply@blogger.com