tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post9193107534093721664..comments2023-11-05T20:19:44.812+13:00Comments on Ambassador Watch: "We were zealots"Gavinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03060097218905523899noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-55575384499367013132008-01-23T11:55:00.000+13:002008-01-23T11:55:00.000+13:00Righteous Tom saith:Now it would demonstrate a bre...Righteous Tom saith:<BR/><BR/><I>Now it would demonstrate a break through in intellectual honesty if you could either stop ducking the question or digressing from the topic, to bring up some irrelevant point. But I am not holding my breath!</I><BR/><BR/>Saint Tom, I am still waiting for <B>you</B> to answer <B>my question to you</B> about you repudiating your past Protestant beliefs, while you adopted your current Armstrongology. Apparently you must think that your religious crap doesn't stink. But everybody else's does. <BR/><BR/>I see.<BR/><BR/>Ok, Saint Tom. No more dodge ball here. Before you keep mouthing off here about how people won't answer your questions, TELL US PLEASE HOW ONLY YOU CAN REPUDIATE YOUR BELIEFS, WHILE NOBODY ELSE CAN?<BR/><BR/>AND YES, I AM SHOUTING TO YOUR DEAF EARS, YOU HYPOCRITE OF HYPOCRITES.<BR/><BR/>You white washed tombs are all mouth and ear wax.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-32114564514432531202008-01-23T11:41:00.000+13:002008-01-23T11:41:00.000+13:00Robert said:. . . didn't have to circumcise your s...Robert said:<BR/><BR/><I>. . . didn't have to circumcise your sons, keep a rigid kosher environment in your kitchen with three sets of pots and pans, wear a kippah to school, or have your tassels showing for the world to see.</I><BR/><BR/>Well Robert, stupid is -- stupid does.<BR/><BR/>If certain sects of Jews want to knock themselves out with such pointless "morality" then let them have it. We had enuf of that type of crap under Armstrong. Maybe not as bad as these silly Jews practice, <B>as you say.</B> But enuf is enuf.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-39676067039617985942008-01-23T03:43:00.000+13:002008-01-23T03:43:00.000+13:00Ooops! I'm sorry. There WAS a conflict. To the Gal...Ooops! I'm sorry. There WAS a conflict. To the Galations(Gentiles), Paul said, "You observe days, moons, seasons, and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored to you in vain...Tell me, you who desire to be under the Law." What Law? Some pagan Law? Nooo! Paul was talking about the "nomos", equivalent to the Hebrew, "torah". <BR/><BR/>To the Colossians, Paul said, "Then do not let anyone judge you...(who were the ones judging them? Read the context in regard to demanding the Gentiles to b e circumcised)...in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, which are a shadow of coming things, but the body of Christ(not the body of Jews)." Have you ever tried to step on a shadow, or chase a shadow? There's nothing there. Christ is the substance...the reality.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07227542200969485271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-90128769744925730392008-01-22T14:15:00.000+13:002008-01-22T14:15:00.000+13:00Questeruk said... Steve said...‘Some of us still d...Questeruk said... <BR/>Steve said...<BR/><BR/>‘Some of us still do this because Jesus did it, and NOT because of HWA.<BR/><BR/>“MY COMMENT: Jesus still DOESN'T. He only did those things when the Old Covenant was still in affect...but no longer.”'<BR/><BR/>"Fine Steve – Jesus is quoted as saying ‘if you will enter into life, keep the commandments’, and when asked which, said ‘do no murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honour your father and mother – love your neighbour as yourself’ "<BR/> <BR/>MY COMMENT: He also said that if you will enter into life, "Go and sell ALL that you have and give it to the poor, and come and follow me". Have you DONE THAT yet? Then, how are you any different than the rich young man that Jesus was talking to? Jesus never told the rich young man that he WASN'T keeping all of those Laws. He just ADDED something else. Even His own disciples were astonished at this comment, and said, "Who then can be saved?". Sabbath and "holydays" won't cut it. I know how much that CUTS you sabbatarians and "holyday" keepers. (Same old Armstrong mentality...pick and choose from the OT.)<BR/><BR/>"Presumably these also are also things that Jesus only did when the Old Covenant was still in affect…. But no longer."<BR/> <BR/>MY COMMENT: Notice, Jesus didn't mention the sabbath and "holydays" here. You can bet your bottom dollar that the rich young Jew was keepin' em all of his life! Did Jesus praise him for it? Did Jesus EVER once mention that keeping the sabbath and "holydays" would be the sign to recognize who His true followers are? Jesus was also circumcised, but He never told His followers NOT to be. Jesus sacrificed animals, but He never told His followers NOT to. Jesus wore a tassle, but He never told His followers NOT to. Did Jesus tithe on His money? The common purse was used to buy those things they had need of for the feast, as well as to give to the poor. There was no category of "tithes" in the common purse. So, Jesus did NOT tithe...because He had no animals or crops. But, those of you who follow Armstrong's teaching believe that you are finding merit with God by "tithing". Anyhow, back to the subject. How strange that the Gentiles needed no instructions, warning, or encouragement as to the keeping of the sabbath. They certainly needed reproof and instruction on nearly every other important matter. Why is sabbath-breaking conspicuously absent from the list of sins? There is no evidence of any sabbath conflicts. How can you use the "argument from silence" scenario. That'e all us "Israelites" ever heard in Herbie's church. "Sabbath" and "holydays", "sabbath" and "holydays", "sabbath" and "holydays". Like a broken record.<BR/> <BR/><BR/> Robert said... <BR/>"Steve,<BR/><BR/>Quit misquoting Jesus."<BR/> <BR/>MY COMMENT: Robert, stop following Armstrong's twist of the Scriptures.<BR/><BR/> <BR/> <BR/> You said:<BR/><BR/>MY COMMENT: Jesus still DOESN'T. He only did those things when the Old Covenant was still in affect...but no longer.<BR/><BR/>Jesus said, "Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle will no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:17).<BR/><BR/>All is NOT fulfilled. Jesus has not returned and heaven and earth HAS NOT passed away.<BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>MY COMMENT: Jesus has fulfilled the Law. The Greek word means that He is the end of the Law, "be ended, fall, be finished". He is our rest...not some day. Regarding the sabbath, when Jesus was accused of breaking the sabbath, He didn't say, "Hey, I'm not breaking the sabbath.". He said, "My Father is always working, and I work.(ON THE SABBATH)." <BR/><BR/>You folks twist the scriptures to your own destruction.<BR/> <BR/>MY COMMENT: You folks think that YOUR works will save you...to your own destruction.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now!Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07227542200969485271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-18356568441712002002008-01-22T11:59:00.000+13:002008-01-22T11:59:00.000+13:00>> I also notice you left self-righteous bigots an...>> I also notice you left self-righteous bigots and racists off of your list of freedoms...You might also find the last five sinful things in your list of freedoms reflected in your mirror.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps Charlie you ought to get outside of the USA and spend some time in South Africa. In a country where there are 65 murders a day where the grace of our Lord Jesus is literally a licence for hijacking, rape and murder. They certainly are living the freedom of Christ.<BR/><BR/>Is this the freedom that you want for all of us? If it is, you know what you can do with it. Bring on Armstrong anyday!Robert https://www.blogger.com/profile/12120572010028667586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-30012936442711256082008-01-22T11:51:00.000+13:002008-01-22T11:51:00.000+13:00Steve,Quit misquoting Jesus. You said:MY COMMENT: ...Steve,<BR/><BR/>Quit misquoting Jesus. You said:<BR/><BR/>MY COMMENT: Jesus still DOESN'T. He only did those things when the Old Covenant was still in affect...but no longer.<BR/><BR/>Jesus said, "Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle will no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:17).<BR/><BR/>All is NOT fulfilled. Jesus has not returned and heaven and earth HAS NOT passed away.<BR/><BR/>You folks twist the scriptures to your own destruction.Robert https://www.blogger.com/profile/12120572010028667586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-4348933684599362162008-01-22T10:55:00.000+13:002008-01-22T10:55:00.000+13:00>>>derived from their distorted view of the world ...>>>derived from their distorted view of the world influenced by the nutty ideas of Herbert Armstrong with his false man made religion.<BR/><BR/>Now if you think HWA was more nutty than a fruit cake you should start studying the Talmud and Judaism. You had it easy under Armstrong! You didn't have to circumcise your sons, keep a rigid kosher environment in your kitchen with three sets of pots and pans, wear a kippah to school, or have your tassels showing for the world to see. And you didn't have to justify the texts in the Talmud that attribute blackness to the sin of Canaan!Robert https://www.blogger.com/profile/12120572010028667586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-85069416106289042862008-01-22T04:16:00.000+13:002008-01-22T04:16:00.000+13:00Tom the Terrible proclaimeth: "True freedom is lib...Tom the Terrible proclaimeth: "True freedom is liberation from the bondage of Satan, who goads people into becoming liars, thieves, adulterers, murderers , extortioners, homosexuals, lesbians, fornicators, child abuser, traitors, disobedient to parents, vain, arrogant, aggressive, spiteful and vengeful. Has democracy liberated you from these baneful, destructive vices?"<BR/><BR/>Tom,<BR/><BR/>Here is a bubble buster for ye: The old WCG certainly had its share of these type of people. I have no reason to believe that all of the splits are any different, so where is the freedom from this sort of thing you speak of? I also notice you left self-righteous bigots and racists off of your list of freedoms...You might also find the last five sinful things in your list of freedoms reflected in your mirror. (I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on the others...But I remain dubious about the child abuse part...Your children should be protected from certain viewpoints you hold but that is up to you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-89632632985933484982008-01-22T04:09:00.000+13:002008-01-22T04:09:00.000+13:00Tom Mahon said... byker bob said:>>>'The WCG attra...Tom Mahon said... <BR/>byker bob said:<BR/><BR/>>>>'The WCG attracted people who were horribly off balance,'<<<<BR/><BR/>"Which is very evident from the nonsense posted here. But "off balance" is to put it mildly, I could think of some much more severe, appropriate terms to describe those who have repudiated what they once claimed to have proved."<BR/><BR/>Everyone is off balance. That is precisely why we need God's word. It is the only way to keep us on sure footing. <BR/>I hope no one brings up that we don't have to keep the holy days, commandments and tithing ... because they were only binding in the O.T. Some of it was alluded to earlier. That is not freedom. It is slavery.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-53935824783102429922008-01-22T02:15:00.000+13:002008-01-22T02:15:00.000+13:00>>>The WCG attracted people who were horribly off ...<I>>>>The WCG attracted people who were horribly off balance,<<<<BR/><BR/>Which is very evident from the nonsense posted here.</I><BR/><BR/>By Tom.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-24507784827120206322008-01-22T02:14:00.000+13:002008-01-22T02:14:00.000+13:00Would it not be a better strategy for you to raise...<I>Would it not be a better strategy for you to raise your comprehension and intellectual skills, rather than requesting other people reduce their, so that you can compete on an equal footing?</I><BR/><BR/>Why would I want to dumb myself down to someone who is obviously inferior?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-58277379660924265742008-01-21T20:10:00.000+13:002008-01-21T20:10:00.000+13:00byker bob said:>>>The WCG attracted people who wer...byker bob said:<BR/><BR/>>>>The WCG attracted people who were horribly off balance,<<<<BR/><BR/>Which is very evident from the nonsense posted here. But "off balance" is to put it mildly, I could think of some much more severe, appropriate terms to describe those who have repudiated what they once claimed to have proved.Tom Mahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02087223683733643082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-24749759177902647382008-01-21T19:58:00.000+13:002008-01-21T19:58:00.000+13:00Lussenheide said...Bill>>>Do you mean I would not ...Lussenheide said...<BR/><BR/>Bill>>>Do you mean I would not be keeping the Holy Days if it wasnt for GG Rupert of the Seventh Day Adventists, who also wrote for the COG 7th Days "Bible Advocate" (circa 1880 to 1920) and John Kiesz of the COG 7th Day who died in the 1990s and knew HWA back in his early ministry?<<<<BR/><BR/>That is not what I said. I said: "BTW, you and Bill would have been completely ignorance of the Holy Days and the need to keep them if God had not revealed that knowledge to Mr. Armstrong." <BR/><BR/>Are you denying that you learned of the Holy Days from HWA? You may argue that he didn't properly understand them, and you now have a better understanding of their spiritual significance. But that is not my question or issue the under discussion.<BR/><BR/>Now it would demonstrate a break through in intellectual honesty if you could either stop ducking the question or digressing from the topic, to bring up some irrelevant point. But I am not holding my breath!Tom Mahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02087223683733643082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-34357075697165672092008-01-21T19:24:00.000+13:002008-01-21T19:24:00.000+13:00Tired Skeptic said...TOM>>>furthermore, the bible ...Tired Skeptic said...<BR/><BR/>TOM>>>furthermore, the bible is a two edged sword. So be careful how you use it, as it tends to inflict a fatal wound to arrogant novices.<<<<BR/><BR/>TS>>>That would be Tom. He is an ignorant novice.<<<BR/><BR/>Haven't you got any ideas of your own? Every time I make point, you pinched it and apply it to me. Would it not be a better strategy for you to raise your comprehension and intellectual skills, rather than requesting other people reduce their, so that you can compete on an equal footing?Tom Mahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02087223683733643082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-47523975933208624722008-01-21T19:16:00.000+13:002008-01-21T19:16:00.000+13:00"descended from a bear"Did it descend in the woods..."descended from a bear"<BR/><BR/>Did it descend in the woods?<BR/><BR/>Just Askin'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-48367856095039435542008-01-21T18:48:00.000+13:002008-01-21T18:48:00.000+13:00Besides, should we really be thankful to a man who...Besides, should we really be thankful to a man who taught us to observe the holydays wrongly, as if Jesus hadn't fulfilled them? <BR/><BR/>HWA even got Pentecost wrong for decades, mixed up Passover with the first holyday of the Days of Unleavened Bread, sent his followers to Texas to observe the F/T instead of to Jerusalem where God intended, and invented the Last Great Day so there would be 7 feasts or holy days, and so they would conform to "God's Plan" that Herbert invented. <BR/><BR/>What a guy!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-78764924626471754222008-01-21T18:32:00.000+13:002008-01-21T18:32:00.000+13:00furthermore, the bible is a two edged sword. So be...<I>furthermore, the bible is a two edged sword. So be careful how you use it, as it tends to inflict a fatal wound to arrogant novices</I><BR/><BR/>That would be Tom. He is an ignorant novice. Doesn't even appear to have studied the Bible. Probably just reads Herbert Armstrong and stupidly thinks it's the same thing. Haven't seen anything inconsistent with that view.<BR/><BR/>Tom cannot even begin to match a man like Senator Thaao Dill. In fact, he doesn't seem to be much a match for anyone here: A man who obviously never knew God at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-49689137662594065852008-01-21T17:20:00.000+13:002008-01-21T17:20:00.000+13:00Lussenheide said..."I still believe in God, and th...Lussenheide said...<BR/><BR/>"I still believe in God, and the core distinctives of the Sabbatarian church, but not because of conformity, or "group think" but because of my own research and conclusions.<BR/><BR/>A lesson learned from an old proverb: A mind convinced against its will, is of the same opinion still. <BR/><BR/>God is not interested in coerced conformity. He is interested in voluntary choice, and free will expressed in relationship with him, in a loving synergy. I obey God because I love him, not because of external carnal,social or organizational guilt pressure."<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><B>I couldn't have said it better myself....if everyone took that attitude we'd all be better off (ok, so it won't happen this time around, but, eventually)</B>brave anonymous posterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10188707776580986517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-12316726144155065502008-01-21T17:14:00.000+13:002008-01-21T17:14:00.000+13:00"I obey God because I love him, not because of ext..."I obey God because I love him, not because of external carnal,social or organizational guilt pressure."<BR/><BR/>Don't forget being executed in a Lake O' Fire. Does that factor in? <BR/><BR/><BR/>PaulAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-74830104641955531662008-01-21T16:31:00.000+13:002008-01-21T16:31:00.000+13:00Tom:Do you mean I would not be keeping the Holy Da...Tom:<BR/><BR/>Do you mean I would not be keeping the Holy Days if it wasnt for GG Rupert of the Seventh Day Adventists, who also wrote for the COG 7th Days "Bible Advocate" (circa 1880 to 1920) and John Kiesz of the COG 7th Day who died in the 1990s and knew HWA back in his early ministry?<BR/><BR/>Both advocated the keeping of the Holy Days in the COG WELL BEFORE HWA ever came along. <BR/><BR/>Quote from Kiesz: " I was keeping the Feast of Tabernacles even before I met Brother Armstrong", source, In Transition, circa 1996. <BR/><BR/>Source for info on Rupert and Holy Days : http://www.friendsofsabbath.org/GG%20Rupert/GG%20Rupert%20slides.pdf See especially Page 9.<BR/><BR/>So although HWA claimed to "reinstitute" the Holy Days, this is a falsehood. He took the idea from already existing Sabbatarians of the era.<BR/><BR/>I owe the man nothing. <BR/><BR/>Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USALussenheidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07497063495672247362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-66575469750510534432008-01-21T16:08:00.000+13:002008-01-21T16:08:00.000+13:00tired skeptic said:>>>The best part of this is tha...tired skeptic said:<BR/><BR/>>>>The best part of this is that we've all here testified to Tom, advised him to repent and have now discharged our duties and have need of doing no more...<<<<BR/><BR/>This is more humbug, but you still have one more thing to do. Break out of your cocoon of anonymity, and say who are? If you dare! What are afraid of?<BR/><BR/>BTW, you and Bill would have been completely ignorance of the Holy Days and the need to keep them if God had not revealed that knowledge to Mr. Armstrong. <BR/><BR/>furthermore, the bible is a two edged sword. So be careful how you use it, as it tends to inflict a fatal wound to arrogant novices who think they know how to use it. Remember, Tkach senior died a couple months after saying, "God is not finished with me yet." Little did he know!!MahonThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16808811561137276235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-19360542893335307462008-01-21T13:55:00.000+13:002008-01-21T13:55:00.000+13:00Surely this cannot be Tom Mahon, the SouthEast reg...Surely this cannot be Tom Mahon, the SouthEast regional Director of the WCG.<BR/><BR/>Tell me it isn't so...<BR/><BR/>John Cooperjcooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03513502708183574185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-60868024246928615322008-01-21T13:40:00.000+13:002008-01-21T13:40:00.000+13:00Steve said...‘Some of us still do this because Jes...Steve said...<BR/><BR/>‘Some of us still do this because Jesus did it, and NOT because of HWA.<BR/>“MY COMMENT: Jesus still DOESN'T. He only did those things when the Old Covenant was still in affect...but no longer.”'<BR/><BR/>Fine Steve – Jesus is quoted as saying ‘if you will enter into life, keep the commandments’, and when asked which, said ‘do no murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honour your father and mother – love your neighbour as yourself’ <BR/><BR/>Presumably these also are also things that Jesus only did when the Old Covenant was still in affect…. But no longer.Questerukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06659962107808147107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-48156066252729971852008-01-21T13:11:00.000+13:002008-01-21T13:11:00.000+13:00Anonymous said... "Bill, as do I, believe in the S...Anonymous said... <BR/>"Bill, as do I, believe in the Sabbath and Holydays and keep them to honor God and Jesus Christ..."<BR/><BR/>Here here !!! <BR/><BR/>Some of us still do this because Jesus did it, and NOT because of HWA.<BR/><BR/>MY COMMENT: Jesus still DOESN'T. He only did those things when the Old Covenant was still in affect...but no longer.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07227542200969485271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-85999639447105244152008-01-21T12:11:00.000+13:002008-01-21T12:11:00.000+13:00But, emphasizing HWA above Jesus Christ, and actua...<I>But, emphasizing HWA above Jesus Christ, and actually changing the gospel message, is the worst kind of blasphemous idolatry imaginable.</I><BR/><BR/>Byker Bob, with all due respect -- for I do honor your observations and judgments greatly -- there is another blasphemy that Tom made which is equally disturbing and it would be a tough call which is worse:<BR/><BR/><I>>>>At the same time, let them stand and wonder at the wondrous and merciful works of God, shown through those He chooses as a witness to the ungodly of His Goodness toward all and let them understand they are deficient morally, spiritually and ethically as wicked children of someone who only wants evil upon humanity.<<<<BR/><BR/>These are just more sentimental platitudes, taken from Joe junior's Evangelical Alliance scrapbook of religious claptrap!</I><BR/><BR/>By making this statement, Tom is saying that God is <I><B>not</I></B> not wondrous and merciful. He has made similar statements when confronted with declarations paraphrasing Psalms about God's Power and Goodness.<BR/><BR/>This is out and out insulting blasphemy against God and transcends in my mind the blasphemous idolatry of emphasizing Herbert Armstrong above Jesus Christ.<BR/><BR/>It may just be a judgment call. A final judgment call.<BR/><BR/>As for sainthood, it's clear that Tom is going for making Herbert Armstrong greater than Moses. I would point out that maybe Herbert Armstrong did fly over the Red Sea in his jet, but he certainly didn't part it. As for making water come out of a rock, Herbert Armstrong did manage to turn wine into sewage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com