tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post7814779159167774106..comments2023-11-05T20:19:44.812+13:00Comments on Ambassador Watch: Two ex-WCG writers in latest BAGavinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03060097218905523899noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-81238621146606755162008-05-06T02:57:00.000+12:002008-05-06T02:57:00.000+12:00Dear Mr. The Lussenheide,You wrote: "If anyone is ...Dear Mr. The Lussenheide,<BR/><BR/>You wrote: <BR/>"If anyone is having an issue with 'being different', this shows immaturity, regardless of the specific issue."<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying it is more mature to celebrate Christmas and Halloween. I'm not a proponent of some silly, "do it because 'everyone else' does it" approach.<BR/><BR/>Then you(the Luss) wrote:<BR/>"Just a simple question. Do you think people should do the strange behaviors of Xmas and Halloween just for the simple reason that everybody else does?"<BR/><BR/>I suppose I mostly answered above.<BR/>Although, I notice your use of the phrase, "strange behaviors", and chalk it up to the aversion that was inculcated in herbdom relating to anything that they considered 'of Satan'.<BR/><BR/>I've been talking to FDLS folks, and they think it should be clear to me that any toy(or wall or anything else for that matter) painted red, or woman not wearing a prairie dress with bonnet, or not seeing black people as "filthy" is strange behaviors of the 'world'. <BR/><BR/>Anyways, it ain't so.<BR/>I don't believe ppl should do stuff just because others do.<BR/><BR/>~ MelMelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03110992737763265066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-17211504470669174272008-05-05T12:14:00.000+12:002008-05-05T12:14:00.000+12:00"There are very important lessons in learning that..."There are very important lessons in learning that "being different""<BR/><BR/>Yes, if there is a good reason for it. The theology of the WWCG is not a good reason.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I had my first (albeit Jebus-free) Christmas last year with my wife and infant daughter. We had a really good time and I already look back on the holiday with fondness, and look foward to the next, knowing my daughter will enjoy it even more as she will be older. <BR/><BR/><BR/>The Apostate PaulAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-51101940335929487932008-05-05T09:28:00.000+12:002008-05-05T09:28:00.000+12:00I wince at the memory of being "different" in the ...I wince at the memory of being "different" in the WCG in the 60's. We just weren't different, we were FREAKS in every sense of the word. Any attempt of conformity was not even dreamed of, and every kid I knew just wanted to blend into the crowd for even a moment. Yeah, we wanted all the holidays and to dress like everyone else, and when I became a teenager, I had the nerve to ask why Christ was able to blend into the crowd, and celebrate the holidays of HIS culture. Of course I got no answer. Now, my grown children's main complaint of their own childhood was the absence of these certain holidays. It IS important to a kid, and you can hang the "growing character" bit. I am not going to hell because I celebrate birthdays, or halloween or christmas, and because I did not spank my kids to the rhythm of Blessed and Happy is the Man". I'm sorry I feel this way Bill, but I didn't have the pleasure of joining up at the age of 17, it was forced on me from the age of 4. You can build character in children in far less damaging ways than making them oddballs. After all kids are immature.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-42086966117707730622008-05-05T08:48:00.000+12:002008-05-05T08:48:00.000+12:00"I seem to recall a statement in the 1960s by that..."I seem to recall a statement in the 1960s by that idiot Roderick Meredith ("5 more years") who said God's true servants have strong sex drives. Does anybody else recall such a statement?"<BR/><BR/>Yep, for sure! Even God's false servants have one of those! <BR/><BR/>Deut 34:7<BR/><BR/>"King James Bible<BR/>And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated."<BR/><BR/>Modern version:<BR/><BR/>And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: he could see women, and was still a horn dog man right to the end.!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-40639101269132654332008-05-05T01:04:00.000+12:002008-05-05T01:04:00.000+12:00Bill Lussenheide,Thank you. You make many valid po...Bill Lussenheide,<BR/><BR/>Thank you. You make many valid points. I guess I have become use to being different starting from my WCG origins.<BR/><BR/>I am glad your overcame the environment in which you grew up in. It speaks highly of you!<BR/><BR/>RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-64260743446882669522008-05-04T22:43:00.000+12:002008-05-04T22:43:00.000+12:00Noticed an ironic letter in this same edition of t...Noticed an ironic letter in this same edition of the Bible Advocate, from the ‘Dead Sardis’ COG7 Church. <BR/><BR/><BR/>“Calculating Christ’s return<BR/>The article on the Millerite Movement<BR/>[“CoG7 Journey,” January-February<BR/>’08, p. 16] is one of the best<BR/>I have ever read. The author is to<BR/>be congratulated. One CoG7 spinoff<BR/>is the largely defunct Herbert<BR/>Armstrong Movement. He predicted<BR/>Christ’s return in 1972, calculating<BR/>this as being two times 19, or 38<BR/>years from when he began his work<BR/>in 1934. Your article correctly notes<BR/>that as to the day and hour, no one<BR/>knows.”<BR/><BR/>A “largely defunct HWA movement”, while the ‘Dead Sardis’ COG7 church lives on!Questerukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06659962107808147107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-38219146017827545192008-05-04T20:08:00.000+12:002008-05-04T20:08:00.000+12:00'...Annonymous, you are lacking faith that the Hol...'...Annonymous, you are lacking faith that the Holy Spirit of God is the "unified field theory" and will guide you in sincerity and truth. Perhaps you really havent been around truly converted people. Any time you rely on Mans discernment and direction, you will reap the "law of unintended consequences". ...'<BR/><BR/>To return to this topic: didn't it take Paul to urge the Corinthians to intervene? And wasn't there then a decision to (temporarily) exclude the offender?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-82014670558555340522008-05-04T17:52:00.000+12:002008-05-04T17:52:00.000+12:00Mel:Just a simple question. Do you think people sh...Mel:<BR/><BR/>Just a simple question. Do you think people should do the strange behaviors of Xmas and Halloween just for the simple reason that everybody else does? <BR/><BR/>Say it aint so Mel! <BR/><BR/>Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USALussenheidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07497063495672247362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-35962546807125970092008-05-04T17:49:00.000+12:002008-05-04T17:49:00.000+12:00Mel:It is not weird to not keep Christmas and Hall...Mel:<BR/><BR/>It is not weird to not keep Christmas and Halloween. <BR/><BR/>If anyone is having an issue with "being different", this shows immaturity, regardless of the specific issue. Lamest remark,(again about ANY topic) to ever come from a kid..."all my other friends are doing it". <BR/><BR/>Being different, in most areas of life is good! <BR/><BR/>Bill Lussenheide, Menifee,CA USALussenheidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07497063495672247362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-23387986842622004092008-05-04T17:08:00.000+12:002008-05-04T17:08:00.000+12:00The Luss wrote:"Being like everybody else, means, ...The Luss wrote:<BR/>"Being like everybody else, means, in general, mediocrity, dysfunction, and overall malaise and unhappiness. Overcoming this requires a deliberate disconnecting from the "system" and in being different!"<BR/><BR/>Glad you are stating that you are speaking a generalization. <BR/>And, it may be my prejudicialness, but it sounds to me as if you are saying kids who keep 'traditional' holidays like Christmas and Easter are not sufficiently 'disconnected from the [bad] system' enough, to rise above the more negative aspects of the culture in which we live.<BR/>Say it ain't so, Luss!Melhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03110992737763265066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-28903257998184260652008-05-04T15:48:00.000+12:002008-05-04T15:48:00.000+12:00RICHARD WROTE:Besides the psychological affects of...RICHARD WROTE:<BR/>Besides the psychological affects of being made to act differently from other children in school (not celebrating Christmas, Halloween and birthdays, etc.<BR/><BR/>MY COMMENT:<BR/>Although you made valid comments about bad child rearing practices in the WCG, I believe you error in the above mentioned quote. <BR/><BR/>Many a Jew, Muslim and others are well adjusted and do just fine in life without Christmas, Halloween , et al. <BR/>There are very important lessons in learning that "being different" than other idiot kids, that is both desirable and preferred. In fact the sooner anyone learns that the mass of society are brain dead, walking zombies who will indulge any whimsical or carnal activity the better. Greatness in life requires leadership, and leadership is seldom found in "acting like everybody else". <BR/><BR/>I did not grow up in the COG, but began attending on my own, by myself at age 17. Where I grew up in the inner city slums, you had virtually 100% drug use, promiscuity, crime and so forth. I only knew a couple of guys in my large High School who were not blowing at least a little weed, if not worse dope on a regular or daily basis. I had my life threatened on more than one occassion and had to learn to either fight or run in order to stay live. Thank goodness I "was different" in school! <BR/><BR/>But dont blow this off and say, well thats just the inner city. Even today in suburubia some 25% or more of teen girls have an STD. Drug and alcohol abuse is common. Child and teen unhappiness is at an all time high. Goths, rappers, gangers, tweekers and all manner of dysfunctional sub groups everywhere. <BR/><BR/>Kids being made to act different?? Great! Dont you think that this is self evident to any enlightened parent with a soul with a vision for a better future for their children? <BR/><BR/>Being like everybody else, means, in general, mediocrity, dysfunction, and overall malaise and unhappiness. Overcoming this requires a deliberate disconnecting from the "system" and in being different! <BR/><BR/>Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USALussenheidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07497063495672247362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-36319601955653666792008-05-04T11:06:00.000+12:002008-05-04T11:06:00.000+12:00However, you can’t ask people to give something th...<I>However, you can’t ask people to give something they do not have. In the case of Joe Jr. and his gang, the missing item in question is compassion.</I><BR/><BR/>Compassion, in this case, is important, but nowhere near as important as honesty, which is totally lacking in the WCG as a long term deficiency from the beginning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-29977573862894248072008-05-04T09:41:00.000+12:002008-05-04T09:41:00.000+12:00Anonymous said, "Where is Terry Ratzmann when you ...Anonymous said, "Where is Terry Ratzmann when you need him?"<BR/><BR/>MY COMMENT - I find it very ironic that after all the many years Armstrongite ministers preached about persecution and the martyrdom of the saints (i.e. true members of God's church - the WCG), the only martyrs that I am aware of were those who became "self inflicted martyrs" at the hands of Terry Ratzmann.<BR/><BR/>RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-43012338361594114092008-05-04T09:31:00.000+12:002008-05-04T09:31:00.000+12:00Byker Bob said, "Then there were "God's Health Law...Byker Bob said, "Then there were "God's Health Laws", "God's Childrearing Methods", and a plethora of other activities ascribed directly to God". <BR/><BR/>MY COMMENT - It's time for a relevant excerpt from my unpublished essay, "My reflections of the Worldwide Church of God - 1972 In Prophecy - God's Practical Joke?":<BR/><BR/> “Spanking And A Praying” <BR/><BR/>First, I wouldn’t wish the Worldwide Church on any child. Besides the psychological affects of being made to act differently from other children in school (not celebrating Christmas, Halloween and birthdays, etc.) and the heavy burden of believing that “time is very short” and great calamity is about to happen on the earth, the Church preached excessive corporal punishment on children for even the most minor of offenses. I remember fathers who openly brought “spanking boards” to Church to discipline small children who could not sit stoic on hard metal seats through the two to three hours of Church services. Fathers were measured by how much they displayed that they had their family under control. Our church Pastor use to say he had a “spank account” for his very young daughter. I remember one woman whose motto was “I’m a spanking and a praying” when referring to her child. Spanking was more of the rule, and not the exception in the Worldwide Church of God (Fraud). <BR/><BR/>In reference to Christmas and “worldly holidays”, I’ve had to ask myself which is worse: giving a child gifts at Christmas or terrorizing a child with false end time predictions that time is very short and that the world is about to end in 1972? Excerpted is an e-mail that I sent to a family member recently regarding giving my daughter Sarah Christmas gifts: <BR/><BR/>“…I give Sarah gifts at Christmas. I do this because what will be remembered thirty years from now will not be the theological arguments against Christmas, but the fact that she didn’t get any Christmas gifts at all from her father. So, I give her gifts at Christmas – throw me in the lake of fire.”<BR/><BR/>As mentioned, I have had to discard anything in my mind that is sourced to Armstrong and the Worldwide Church. I wouldn’t want my own daughter to think she’s different from other children – and excluded from activities her friends enjoy. I give my daughter “year end” gifts and she’s never had a “spank account”. <BR/><BR/>End of Excerpt<BR/><BR/>RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-28709706302099305772008-05-04T09:14:00.000+12:002008-05-04T09:14:00.000+12:00Lussenheide said, "2) If someone is, lets say, com...Lussenheide said, "2) If someone is, lets say, commiting some kind of adultery, simply do not fellowship with such kind. Converted people will not enable such behavior or want to be around such.<BR/><BR/>MY COMMENT - Of course, an exception to this example was the sexual preditor Garner Ted Armstrong. <BR/><BR/>I seem to recall a statement in the 1960s by that idiot Roderick Meredith ("5 more years") who said God's true servants have strong sex drives. Does anybody else recall such a statement?<BR/><BR/>RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-92038998840577815552008-05-04T05:07:00.000+12:002008-05-04T05:07:00.000+12:00In the old school WCG, and the splinters which pat...In the old school WCG, and the splinters which pattern themselves after that, the system was intrusive and domineering in members' lives. Not that the Holy Spirit was present in these groups, but even if He/it was, the micro management governmental style would not have allowed the HS to work in peoples' lives on an individualized and personalized basis similar to examples in the Bible.<BR/><BR/>The more difficult the sell, in the ACOGs, the more the possessive form of God's name was invoked to add imperatives. Hitlerian, legalistic, snooping supervision was called "God's Government". The implication was that if you objected, it wasn't just human ministers that you were rebelling against, it was God Himself. In all communications, WCG was referred to as "God's Church". This was to emphasize that if you were to look for another church, or go independent, you were literally turning your back on God.<BR/>Then there were "God's Health Laws", "God's Childrearing Methods", and a plethora of other activities ascribed directly to God. It was part of the internal jargon of the WCG, and was part of the brainwashing associated with the organization (cult).<BR/><BR/>But, many of the people who were part of these groups, or have just recently left them, still carry some of these attitudes into the basic ways in which they define things. It is impossible for an ACOGger to even visualize a church where people can freely come and go for spiritual nourishment, and contribute or not contribute in accordance to what is in their hearts. No, a church has to be a governmental structure where everything is registered, and regulated. The fact that this stifles or quenches the individual workings of the Holy Spirit would never occur to such folks. Freedom and Christianity are supposed to go hand in hand. They are not intended to be non sequiturs.<BR/><BR/>The bottom line is, God places more importance on what we do of our own free will. If our actions are based on authoritatively imposed legalism, the commands of some yelling minister, or fear of the Lake of Fire, they are of no value whatsoever.<BR/><BR/>"Registering", indeed!<BR/><BR/>BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17963860939122842077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-65623997817636715202008-05-04T03:14:00.000+12:002008-05-04T03:14:00.000+12:00ANNONYMOUS 11:07 WROTE:Given that there must be or...ANNONYMOUS 11:07 WROTE:<BR/>Given that there must be order in the group isn't it appropriate from a disciplinary aspect that such 'members' be 'registered' as such? (Though the manner of such discipline is important.)<BR/><BR/>MY RESPONSE:<BR/>1) Chaos ALWAYS tends to order itself. Care to define what "order" is supposed to be? Where do the regulations stop or start? If Gods Spirit is there, then wouldnt natural order be expected? Who is managing the ants or the bee hive? If it is a group not led by the spirit, then perhaps your request is valid amongst mere carnal men. Such fears are not necessary amongst the truly converted and faithful. <BR/><BR/>2) If someone is, lets say, commiting some kind of adultery, simply do not fellowship with such kind. Converted people will not enable such behavior or want to be around such. Why does there need to be the force of a governing mob to "enforce" anything? <BR/><BR/>3) Registering?? My Bible says "let every person examine THEMSELVES to see if they be of the faith" before taking of the Lords Body. Yourself, Not some executive committee, or governing body. <BR/><BR/>The only registering I see mentioned in the Bible is where "THE BEAST" requires registering identification! Sorry Bub, but you can keep that! <BR/><BR/>Annonymous, you are lacking faith that the Holy Spirit of God is the "unified field theory" and will guide you in sincerity and truth. Perhaps you really havent been around truly converted people. Any time you rely on Mans discernment and direction, you will reap the "law of unintended consequences". <BR/><BR/>Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USALussenheidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07497063495672247362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-33618935431312919242008-05-04T00:57:00.000+12:002008-05-04T00:57:00.000+12:00Anon May 03, 11:07,I've been to churches where, af...Anon May 03, 11:07,<BR/><BR/>I've been to churches where, afaik, there was not on an 'official' membership list.<BR/><BR/>I've also been to churches at which many who attended regularly were not on the 'official' membership list.<BR/><BR/>Seemed to work ok for those churches.<BR/><BR/>Because of what kinds of infractions and disciplining are you suggesting 'attendees be registered members' is needed?<BR/><BR/>MelMelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03110992737763265066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-45106226351933165392008-05-03T23:07:00.000+12:002008-05-03T23:07:00.000+12:00'...Being a "member" of something is meaningless. ...'...Being a "member" of something is meaningless. Repentance and a personal relationship with Christ is done on an individual basis, and it is all that matters in the end. God wants to love individual people, not corporate by-laws and 501c-3s ! ...'<BR/><BR/>All committed Christians are 'members' of the Body of Christ, his Church. However, each local assembly is an independent unit - composed of 'members'. Given that there must be order in the group isn't it appropriate from a disciplinary aspect that such 'members' be 'registered' as such? (Though the manner of such discipline is important.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-65956660942733613352008-05-03T17:27:00.000+12:002008-05-03T17:27:00.000+12:00When some big name leaves the Seventh Day Adventis...When some big name leaves the Seventh Day Adventist church, or the Worldwide Church of God, they often go to the Church of God Seventh Day for a while to write for the <I>Bible Advocate</I> magazine. Eventually they have a falling out there too and go elsewhere.<BR/><BR/>That COG7 really needs to strengthen the things that remain that are about to die....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-3829379963221442032008-05-03T15:18:00.000+12:002008-05-03T15:18:00.000+12:00I met brother Whaid at this time in 2000 when he v...I met brother Whaid at this time in 2000 when he visited a COG7 congregation in Toronto. He truly is the anti-Armstrong or another expression, "He rocks!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-56496943983059486662008-05-03T10:36:00.000+12:002008-05-03T10:36:00.000+12:00Terry Ratzman is dead. His painbody killed a numbe...Terry Ratzman is dead. His painbody killed a number of innocent people and then it killed itself taking Terry along with it.DennisDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05069884969156562133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-30608392972924859012008-05-03T10:23:00.000+12:002008-05-03T10:23:00.000+12:00Dennis wrote: "Ok, I"m going to go look for a life...Dennis wrote: "Ok, I"m going to go look for a life...and work on forgetting the story."<BR/><BR/>Those sob's still get me pissed off also after all these years! Where is Terry Ratzmann when you need him?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-29286270620484988822008-05-03T09:45:00.000+12:002008-05-03T09:45:00.000+12:00Gavin,We are not tree-huggers or sandal wearers he...Gavin,<BR/><BR/>We are not tree-huggers or sandal wearers here.<BR/><BR/>We embrace the cross,and the also the rosary,as a good Romanische Katholische should.<BR/><BR/>JorgheinzAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-57450593776534619622008-05-03T08:06:00.000+12:002008-05-03T08:06:00.000+12:00Well WCG was Philidelphia because they had and hav...Well WCG was Philidelphia because they had and have such love...COG7 Was Sardis and dead.<BR/><BR/>But Sardis lives and Philly is dead so WCG must have been Sardis and PCG is Philly. But PCG is nuts so Sardis must have been Philidelphia making WCG Laodicean and the splinters Arkadelphians because they had to save themselves from the flood of stupidity. <BR/><BR/>Oh ask Bob Thiel, he knows everything about such thingsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com