tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post4863435955127892485..comments2023-11-05T20:19:44.812+13:00Comments on Ambassador Watch: In the NewsGavinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03060097218905523899noreply@blogger.comBlogger91125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-18685221693075528762008-03-04T04:27:00.000+13:002008-03-04T04:27:00.000+13:00I can't speak for anyone else, but when I used tho...I can't speak for anyone else, but when I used those terms of disaffection, it was with a just little bit of well-placed vindictive glee. <BR/><BR/>As my need for the release of the negative emotions (incurred from being born and raised in the original WCG) tapered off, I felt the need to use the pejoratives less and less (although I might still slip one in here and there).<BR/><BR/>However. Not even if I was given possession of the thirty million dollar chandelier myself, would I ever again refer to HWA as "Mr."!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-90670781753668928962008-02-29T21:45:00.000+13:002008-02-29T21:45:00.000+13:00Baashabob said...>>>Tired Skeptic's remarks about ...Baashabob said...<BR/><BR/>>>>Tired Skeptic's remarks about pushing the hot buttons of our resident man worshipper are so true. And Tom continues to make a fool of himself time after time,<<<<BR/><BR/>I respect your judgement, and from now on I will stop making a fool of myself by joining you loving, caring people, in calling Mr. Armstrong "Herbie, Herster, Harmstrong and whatsoever else you think is appropriate. <BR/><BR/>I hope that after a week of induction in how to slander, malign and revile Mr. Armstrong, I will then be accepted as wise by you all.Tom Mahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02087223683733643082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-82053115313464126312008-02-29T18:09:00.000+13:002008-02-29T18:09:00.000+13:00Bob,Near as I can tell, the goal of such people is...Bob,<BR/><BR/>Near as I can tell, the goal of such people is to be royalty. <BR/><BR/>Herbert Armstrong wanted to be royalty. Unfortunately for us, he achieved his goal by using the resources we provided him. He was the ultimate royalty to be God as God is God is what he wanted to be, not unlike Satan the Devil.<BR/><BR/>No humble servant stuff for the royals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-48233692597157461772008-02-29T14:32:00.000+13:002008-02-29T14:32:00.000+13:00Tired Skeptic's remarks about pushing the hot butt...Tired Skeptic's remarks about pushing the hot buttons of our resident man worshipper are so true. And Tom continues to make a fool of himself time after time, except when he sees himself condemned by the very scriptures he so often quotes. In those cases, as Douglas has pointed out, he becomes strangely silent.<BR/><BR/>One example of this is that he can't help but to call the object of his worship "Mr.", even though the scriptures, which he claims to believe, forbid such a practice.<BR/><BR/>Bob E.<BR/><BR/>-=-=-<BR/>... "The hilarious thing about self-important self-righteous people is that they are so easily baited."<BR/>* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.orgBaashabobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13945527695465082450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-21240982178759487432008-02-29T13:29:00.000+13:002008-02-29T13:29:00.000+13:00You seem modestly intelligent. I wonder why you ca...<I>You seem modestly intelligent. I wonder why you cannot see this?</I><BR/><BR/>For those who believe Scripture, the answer is in Isaiah 8:20.<BR/><BR/>For those who do not, the answer is to be found in <I><B>The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Disorders</I></B> by the American Psychiatric Association.<BR/><BR/>The same is true of all Armstrongists who cannot see that Herbert Armstrong was a false prophet.<BR/><BR/>The real question is what is the bottom line? What do the Armstrongists get from their fantasies?<BR/><BR/>As for the intelligence, it's rather overstated for someone so careless they can't quote Scripture accurately nor make statements anywhere accurately concerning such things as conspiracy theories about the moderator. There are such things as brilliant fools, but that doesn't seem to be the case here, just a mediocre incompetent.<BR/><BR/>For the religious, repentance is a gift from God as is correction, neither of which seems to have been offered to Tom Moran yet, or if they were, they were resoundingly rejected. All there is is the fuming anger and hatred for those who disagree with the silly ideas which are so obviously wrong.<BR/><BR/>This is the world of Armstrongism, starting in the 1930s as Herbert Armstrong in all his narcissism wanted revenge and took such satisfaction in those he declared "had to eat their words". No such luck for our resident Armstrongist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-748829137442530312008-02-29T11:00:00.000+13:002008-02-29T11:00:00.000+13:00Actually that clears things up substantially, Neo....Actually that clears things up substantially, Neo. I wasn't sure if you were the same Neotherm or not, and I wasn't sure what you had meant, in regards to your earlier comments about being an evangelical Quaker, and your views on non-theism among members of the RSoF.<BR/><BR/>I was confused by your use of the term "universalist" -- I thought you were saying you had universalist Quaker leanings, which obviously you don't, if you "pitch your tent" between Conservative and Evangelical Quakerism.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for clarifying!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-9918052219344896322008-02-29T07:42:00.000+13:002008-02-29T07:42:00.000+13:00Tom Mahon,The problem is that the splinter from CO...Tom Mahon,<BR/><BR/>The problem is that the splinter from COG-7 that Herbert Armstrong rebelliously formed never had God behind it in the first place. Why didn't HWA wait for God to straighten everything out, as WCG members were exhorted to do? <BR/><BR/>Armstrong framed his rebellion in such a manner that we were expected to believe that it was necessary, and supported by God. He self condemned, though, by continuing to state that COG-7 was the true Church of God, only a different era.<BR/><BR/>With his bogus church eras doctrine, he also left those who would feel 'God's calling' to rebelliously start splinters from WCG nowhere to go. Who, in their right mind, would start the Laodecean era? That's why you have all of the little tinhorns running around claiming to be preservationists of the Philadelphia era, and acting as if they idolize HWA. Dumb and dumber. You seem modestly intelligent. I wonder why you cannot see this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-64125668979582494772008-02-29T06:25:00.000+13:002008-02-29T06:25:00.000+13:00Neo said"Do I believe that most people will choose...Neo said<BR/>"Do I believe that most people will choose Hell? Yes." <BR/><BR/>But about if I'm diligently following THE TWO BEARDED GURUS (Joe Tkach & Ben Benannke) ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-85901842988460492292008-02-29T05:49:00.000+13:002008-02-29T05:49:00.000+13:00SmilinJackSprat said...>>>Because the word, apostl...SmilinJackSprat said...<BR/><BR/>>>>Because the word, apostle, occurs so often on these pages, and does in this blog, I thought it might be helpful for Christians or ex-Christians, who seem to be the majority of contributors here, to be aware of what "apostle" means to Jews now..<<<<BR/><BR/>Your definition might be helpful to former Christians, but it is both inaccurate and irrelevant to genuine Christians.<BR/><BR/>However, for the record, the word Apostle denotes the highest office in the NT church of God, and it comes with absolute authority from God in the administration of his church.<BR/><BR/>Of course, it would be another waste of my time, to explain the power, office and duties of apostleship. But, come to think of it, you could always ask Douglas Becker to explain, as he is a malevolent critic of Mr. Armstrong, especially now that he is dead; and the "he" refers to Douglas!Tom Mahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02087223683733643082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-72345312979604200662008-02-29T05:27:00.000+13:002008-02-29T05:27:00.000+13:00Tired Skeptic said...>>>From the very beginning I ...Tired Skeptic said...<BR/><BR/>>>>From the very beginning I knew who and what Tom was.<<<<BR/><BR/>You don't even know who or what you are, so don't flatter yourself, Douglas Becker, that you know me!<BR/><BR/>>>My long term goal was to find all his hot buttons and press them like crazy.<<<BR/><BR/>Another flattering delusion, if there ever was one!Tom Mahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02087223683733643082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-51581422285314145602008-02-29T05:17:00.000+13:002008-02-29T05:17:00.000+13:00Bamboo_bends said...Tom>>>"God often reveals thing...Bamboo_bends said...<BR/><BR/>Tom>>>"God often reveals thing to people without explaining what they mean"<<<<BR/><BR/>>>>Is it really "revealed" if it isn't understandable? Isn't the very definition of revealed, to make it clear and impart knowledge?<<<<BR/><BR/>Don't people reveal things to you every day that you may or may not understand?<BR/><BR/>Revelation means the unveiling of something that was hidden or not known. For example, Einstein revealed to the world his theory of relativity, but most people in the world don't understand it, and that applies to many who have spent years studying it. <BR/><BR/>You are actually confusing revelation with illumination. They are different sides of the same coin!Tom Mahonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02087223683733643082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-2782076172773461682008-02-29T04:56:00.000+13:002008-02-29T04:56:00.000+13:00A quick word about Neo. I think he has made some ...A quick word about Neo. I think he has made some excellent contributions in our efforts to diffuse and debunk Armstrongism. The article at the Scrollery is spot on, and Gavin has both reviewed and posted excerpts from Neo's book, I believe on the old Ambassador Watch site.<BR/><BR/>We're all entitled to our post-Armstrong beliefs, or lack thereof.<BR/><BR/>BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17963860939122842077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-13699689481190054782008-02-29T04:55:00.000+13:002008-02-29T04:55:00.000+13:00Purplehymnal: I am that same Neotherm. This is g...Purplehymnal:<BR/><BR/> I am that same Neotherm. This is going to be a big bore to most people but, here goes:<BR/><BR/>1) Theologically I am a moderate Calvinist.<BR/>2) In practice and denominational allegiance, I am a conservative Quaker. I believe in silent worship and the mystical elements of Quakerism. <BR/>3) I also believe that evangelism is a responsibility. But this simply means freely making the message available. It does not mean that I belong to the American religious subculture known as Evangelicalism (Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker, etc.).<BR/><BR/>So I would pitch my tent somewhere between the Conservative and Evangelical branches of the Religious Society of Friends.<BR/><BR/>I believe in a restrictivist model for salvation. But I am studying Universalism and I believe it has some merit but I have not yet decided. <BR/><BR/>Do I believe that most people will choose Hell? Yes. Would I like to not believe that? Yes.<BR/><BR/>Most people do not categorize themselves so finely, but I find it easier to follow this approach.<BR/><BR/>So there you have it. I can see where you might be confused. <BR/><BR/>-- NeoNeothermhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06546163563669263135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-50639400884290425962008-02-29T04:53:00.000+13:002008-02-29T04:53:00.000+13:00There are different shades of meaning behind the f...There are different shades of meaning behind the frequent usage of the word "I".<BR/><BR/>How it is used, depends largely on the character of the individual involved. In the gospels, Jesus is recorded as using the term "the Son of Man" many times in lieu of "I". But, Jesus didn't write his own biographical material. Luke wrote much of Paul's biography, but Paul wrote a considerable amount himself. His writing style contrasts with that of the writers of the gospels, whomever they might have been. <BR/><BR/>We all have our personal experiences, and sometimes it's good to share. Some people never break down their barriers and allow you to see the real person that they are. Who would want to be taught by someone whom you can never get to know? It helps to know that others consider themselves to be human, and are willing to share some of their life experiences.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, when using these personal experiences, one often runs the risk of becoming a boring braggart, or authoritarian.<BR/>We've all run across the types who, every time they use the word "I", you automatically know that they do so intending for it to be an example as to how all listeners are supposed to behave. I'm terribly sorry, but the only one I'm prepared to pattern my life after is Jesus Christ. Follow the leader is the idea. Not the followers. That's what got us into trouble before.<BR/><BR/>Paul probably felt incredible guilt thoughout his life for what he had done to Christians, even though he knew he had been forgiven, not only by God, but by the very people he had tormented before he became their teacher.<BR/><BR/>BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17963860939122842077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-63321880104776655532008-02-29T04:50:00.000+13:002008-02-29T04:50:00.000+13:00Tom said..."God often reveals thing to people with...<I>Tom said...<BR/>"God often reveals thing to people without explaining what they mean"</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>Is it really "revealed" if it isn't understandable? Isn't the very definition of revealed, to make it clear and impart knowledge? AMERICAN KABUKIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11064036099785125749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-44928918433091391742008-02-29T04:29:00.000+13:002008-02-29T04:29:00.000+13:00"When someone has something important to say they ..."When someone has something important to say they need to establish their credentials - especially when there are 'enemies'"<BR/><BR/>I've mentioned it before, but in the ICG GTA gave an angry sermon about that subject- someone wrote in criticizing his constant use of the word "I," as in "I have dined with _____ and I flew the FanJet and I was heard on ______ radio stations," ect.<BR/>He waded through Romans and pointed out Paul's use of "I" as a defense.<BR/><BR/><BR/>PaulAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-86612814880594432782008-02-29T03:25:00.000+13:002008-02-29T03:25:00.000+13:00OK everybody watch me stick foot in mouth and laug...OK everybody watch me stick foot in mouth and laugh:<BR/><BR/>Neo says:<BR/><EM><BR/>"I am an evangelical Quaker with some Universalist leanings. (The term evangelical here does not the term commonly used to describe the evangelical movement in the United States. I am decidedly against that movement."<BR/></EM><BR/><BR/>Now I'm really confused: Are you saying you're decidedly against the evangelical Quaker movement, or against the conservative American evangelical movement? <BR/><BR/>Because your posts seem to me, to fall more in line with the latter than the former.<BR/><BR/>Are you also the same "neotherm" as the one with an article over at the Scrollery? And if that is the case, do you belong to the same Quaker practices organization as the publisher's founders?<BR/><BR/>With respect, you do not seem to have "some Universalist leanings", at least not from your scripture-laden Jesus-exhorting posts here. That was the crux of my argument.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-89771221859184802472008-02-29T02:36:00.000+13:002008-02-29T02:36:00.000+13:00"When someone has something important to say they ..."When someone has something important to say they need to establish their credentials - especially when there are 'enemies'"<BR/><BR/>I don't understand the comment.DennisDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05069884969156562133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-15091189736387591492008-02-29T01:53:00.000+13:002008-02-29T01:53:00.000+13:00In case some of you think that Tom is being treate...In case some of you think that Tom is being treated unfairly, pushing his hot buttons is useful to extract information.<BR/><BR/>A couple of us are collaborating on creating a new article about Armstrongism and we thought what a better way to gather material than to get it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Well, OK, maybe the other end of the horse, but you get the idea.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-59857467671539821442008-02-29T01:16:00.000+13:002008-02-29T01:16:00.000+13:00' SmilinjIn the English speaking world Jews almost...' Smilinj<BR/>In the English speaking world Jews almost never use the word, apostle; they use its Hebrew equivalent, sheliach. A sheliach is an emissary, a trusted messenger '<BR/><BR/>The NT recognizes thirteen apostles who have divine authority and represent Jesus faithfully conveying his Word. There are also 'messengers (apostles) of the churches' who are indeed 'sheliach'. Recognizing this clarifies use of the word - including 'women apostles'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-1386063814572677642008-02-29T01:15:00.000+13:002008-02-29T01:15:00.000+13:00'DD: found this interesting and a way in which som...'DD:<BR/> found this interesting and a way in which some COG Witnesses are like Paul.<BR/><BR/>"I wanna talk about me!" '<BR/><BR/>When someone has something important to say they need to establish their credentials - especially when there are 'enemies'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-51298476797109916332008-02-28T17:07:00.000+13:002008-02-28T17:07:00.000+13:00In the above post I left out one of the most recog...In the above post I left out one of the most recognized "apostolic" offices in Judaism, that of the "sheliach tzibbur," or emissary of the congregation. This person is the Cantor or Hazzan -- who sings prayers with authorization from the congregants who have sent him or her to God on their behalf. Go to a large synagogue and hear a genuine apostle at work.SmilinJackSprathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03946857548277008936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-61505406338495944962008-02-28T16:10:00.000+13:002008-02-28T16:10:00.000+13:00Because the word, apostle, occurs so often on thes...Because the word, apostle, occurs so often on these pages, and does in this blog, I thought it might be helpful for Christians or ex-Christians, who seem to be the majority of contributors here, to be aware of what "apostle" means to Jews now -- and therefore, on the basis of context, must have meant to those who so often used the term in documents that became the NT.<BR/><BR/>In the English speaking world Jews almost never use the word, apostle; they use its Hebrew equivalent, sheliach. A sheliach is an emissary, a trusted messenger. Almost anyone can be a sheliach of one type or another in Judaism.<BR/><BR/>For example, a repaired Torah scroll, damaged during WW2, was recently sent from the United States to Bulgaria. It was accompanied by a sheliach, a responsible Jewish congregant who could be entrusted with so sacred an object as a Sefer Torah (Torah Scroll). There was no formal ordination prior or removal of credentials after he completed his task. He simply was no longer a sheliach because his mission had been accomplished.<BR/><BR/>In the branch of Hassidic Judaism called Chabad/Lubavitch, their schluchim (E. European pronunciation, pl.) are sent all over the world to strengthen Jewish communities wherever Jews live. These schluchim are Rabbis, sent to accomplish rabbinical tasks, which by their nature could last a lifetime.<BR/><BR/>My point is that the word is not in any way unusual in Jewry. In a “kingdom of priests” (Ex. 19:6), Godly tasks are and should be typical of Jewish life. Christians read the word in their Bibles as "apostle," from the Greek, and seem to attach extraordinary meaning to it, but it nonetheless refers, quite simply, to an emissary or individual entrusted with a mission. The mission might indeed be extraordinary, but on the other hand might not. It all depends. The word is used constantly in the conversations of observant Jews, and therefore was, quite more than likely, used similarly in the nascent Christian world when "Christianity" was still a movement within Judaism.SmilinJackSprathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03946857548277008936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-39265883015709637342008-02-28T15:42:00.000+13:002008-02-28T15:42:00.000+13:00Purplehymnal: As you like. Your comments seemed ...Purplehymnal: As you like. Your comments seemed to be embedded in some material about Quakers. Realize that Quakerism comes in many stripes. I am an evangelical Quaker with some Universalist leanings. (The term evangelical here does not the term commonly used to describe the evangelical movement in the United States. I am decidedly against that movement.)<BR/><BR/>-- NeoNeothermhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06546163563669263135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-12355081881456960512008-02-28T14:36:00.000+13:002008-02-28T14:36:00.000+13:00Neo:Just forget it. I probably should not have sai...Neo:<BR/><BR/>Just forget it. I probably should not have said anything anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com