tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post3479105057000114586..comments2023-11-05T20:19:44.812+13:00Comments on Ambassador Watch: Link notGavinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03060097218905523899noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-16345436619426880622008-08-21T13:09:00.000+12:002008-08-21T13:09:00.000+12:00Larry,"Believe it or not, there are more important...Larry,<BR/><BR/><EM>"Believe it or not, there are more important things than money."</EM><BR/><BR/>On this, we are agreed. It is just a crying shame that Armstrong, and the Tkaches, and all the petty, scheming, disastrous little despots who followed on in their footsteps, never believed that themselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-4146045444283532642008-08-21T11:51:00.000+12:002008-08-21T11:51:00.000+12:00Larry said, “Richard, you seem to think everything...Larry said, “Richard, you seem to think everything is about money. People do not and did not join the Church because they are worried about money. I don't know what kind of arrangement the Hammers had with the WCG. If it truly was a "donation" without conditions, then the Church is not obligated in any way to reimburse them. Donations are gifts. Once they are out of your hands, they are out of your purview and control. Why does this seem to bother you? <BR/><BR/>I think I know. Because to you, it IS all about money. God is not part of the equation. You have eliminated God and altruism, and therefore; the money is all that matters. You think everything is fraud. I see the same cynicism in the posts of others on this board. Believe it or not, there are more important things than money.”<BR/><BR/>MY COMMENT – Wrong again, Larry!<BR/><BR/>• I already told you in another thread that I have a passion against fraud – massive fraud. And massive fraud usually involves massive financial malfeasance, corporate theft and corruption.<BR/><BR/>• You refuse to answer the question about the Hammer family. And I know why you refuse. Why does it bother me? Because it is just another example – one of many – where the WCG breached a contract and the faith of its own people. For you see Larry, I heard Mr. Armstrong on several occasion relate the story of how the Big Sandy campus came about. The Hammers gave the land to the WCG to be used for an Ambassador College campus. The Hammers did not donate the parcel for any other purpose Larry. It bothers me because it demonstrates the total lack of integrity and ethics of the WCG. I know you won’t answer the question, but do you really believe the Hammers gave the valuable parcel of land so that many years later the Tkaches could shrink the church and pocket the money received from the Big Sandy sale? Do you really believe that Larry? <BR/><BR/>Larry, you keep defending a corporate church in which God had nothing to do with in the first place. The WCG was a lie and all about money, and you try to twist it by saying I’m the one all about money? That is BS Larry. Obviously, the words “ethics”, “integrity” and “honesty” mean nothing to you. You are one of the dumb sheep who will believe anything the WCG tells you. Or, it has occurred to me that perhaps you are one of the shepards who helped fleece the membership. Which is it Larry? <BR/><BR/>RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-80597919287584058872008-08-21T09:07:00.000+12:002008-08-21T09:07:00.000+12:00Lawrence said,I think I know. Because to you, it I...Lawrence said,<BR/><BR/>I think I know. Because to you, it IS all about money. God is not part of the equation. You have eliminated God and altruism, and therefore; the money is all that matters..... I see the same cynicism in the posts of others on this board. Believe it or not, there are more important things than money."<BR/><BR/>Lar...sounds like a run up to taking an offering :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-88411525135441697762008-08-21T04:41:00.000+12:002008-08-21T04:41:00.000+12:00Richard, you seem to think everything is about mon...Richard, you seem to think everything is about money. People do not and did not join the Church because they are worried about money. I don't know what kind of arrangement the Hammers had with the WCG. If it truly was a "donation" without conditions, then the Church is not obligated in any way to reimburse them. Donations are gifts. Once they are out of your hands, they are out of your purview and control. Why does this seem to bother you? <BR/><BR/>I think I know. Because to you, it IS all about money. God is not part of the equation. You have eliminated God and altruism, and therefore; the money is all that matters. You think everything is fraud. I see the same cynicism in the posts of others on this board. Believe it or not, there are more important things than money.larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207263922457941293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-49114849026180783602008-08-20T17:32:00.000+12:002008-08-20T17:32:00.000+12:00Were not the sun, moon, and stars set in the sky t...Were not the sun, moon, and stars set in the sky to provide light, and to demark the days, seasons, and years?<BR/><BR/>Are we not told to work while it is day, for the night is coming when no man can work?<BR/><BR/>Doth not even the Preacher say that a man can do no better than to eat and drink, and find satisfaction in his work?<BR/><BR/>Should we not heed then the words of the monks, that tell us:<BR/><BR/>"Im Himmel gibt es kein beir, drum muss wir es trinken heir"<BR/><BR/>Jawohl, mein damen und herren!<BR/><BR/>VonHowitzerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-15983455191445779382008-08-20T15:55:00.000+12:002008-08-20T15:55:00.000+12:00ICG mostly markets the GTA beer - a lot of fizz, t...ICG mostly markets the GTA beer - a lot of fizz, then it goes flat and repeats on you.<BR/><BR/>CGI and CEM only market lite beers.<BR/><BR/>And before you taste Weinland beer, check the date on the label!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-9785244709175701742008-08-20T14:31:00.000+12:002008-08-20T14:31:00.000+12:00larry said... Several of the posts on this thread ...larry said... <BR/>Several of the posts on this thread illustrate the old saying that, "When you quit believing GOD, you'll believe ANYTHING."<BR/><BR/><B>No, I think it illustrates that when you believe in God, you're capable of believing anything.</B><BR/><BR/>That is, anything but the truth and reality of what is and what is only wishful thinking.<BR/><BR/>Of course no one believes God or gods, no one has ever heard one or seen one and no one has any evidence that any gods exist.<BR/><BR/>It has nothing to do with believing God, it has to do with whether you believe the <B>men</B> who wrote the books or not.Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-35019196996185724912008-08-20T12:03:00.000+12:002008-08-20T12:03:00.000+12:00Larry said, “Several of the posts on this thread i...Larry said, “Several of the posts on this thread illustrate the old saying that, when you quit believing GOD, you'll believe ANYTHING."<BR/><BR/>MY COMMENT – Wrong again, Larry.<BR/><BR/>First, I have never heard the old saying you quoted. I think you made it up and claim it is an old saying.<BR/><BR/>What several of the posts on this thread illustrates is that when you free your mind from a false cult that came in Christ’s name and deceived many, you question anything and everything pertaining to the subject matter of God and religion – particularly when the fleecing of the dumb sheep for money occurs.<BR/><BR/>By the way Larry, you haven’t answered the questions on the other tread. How would you answer the Hammer family? Do you really think they donated that valuable Big Sandy parcel for anything else other than a College? If Joseph Tkach had any integrity, he would give the land value of the money back to the Hammer family that was received by WCG as a result of the Big Sandy campus sale. Don’t you agree, Larry?<BR/><BR/>RichardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-18774650026920500432008-08-20T11:37:00.000+12:002008-08-20T11:37:00.000+12:00Anonymous said... Dennis is right...Israel and Jud...<I>Anonymous said... <BR/><BR/>Dennis is right...<BR/><BR/>Israel and Judah adapted the religion of the Cannanites.</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>Anonymous Nobody, <BR/><BR/>Yes, Israel and Judah adopted the vile practices of the surrounding peoples. That is why God punished them so much! They refused to obey God's laws and observe God's festivals. Just like the goofballs at this blog, they wanted paganism and hocus pocus rather than anything God said in the Bible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-60367113385001347572008-08-20T06:51:00.000+12:002008-08-20T06:51:00.000+12:00anonymous said . . .One of the most important thin...anonymous said . . .<BR/><BR/>One of the most important things to understand is that the Passover was a Canaanite festival originally called the "Killing of the Lambs". <BR/><BR/>The Passover comes right out of Pagan sacrificial ritual. <BR/><BR/>That means the NT Passover is also a colossal fraud. <BR/><BR/>Please read the story about Ugarit<BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugarit<BR/><BR/><B>While you are at it, take a serious look at this.<BR/><BR/>http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/MSmith_BiblicalMonotheism.htm<BR/><BR/>And this.<BR/><BR/>http://www.biblicalheritage.org/Bible%20Studies/canaan-gods.htm<BR/><BR/>So, Yesiree indeedee, the Bible is Canaanite hocus pocus hokum.</B>Corkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15894537940881776504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-76457161914743130472008-08-20T04:29:00.000+12:002008-08-20T04:29:00.000+12:00Rating the COG BeersTkach's beer tastes great, but...<B>Rating the COG Beers</B><BR/><BR/>Tkach's beer tastes great, but is less filling.<BR/><BR/>United's beer is less filling, but tastes great.<BR/><BR/>Pack's beer packs a real punch, but Spanky's beer out punches Pack in the middleweight class. <BR/><BR/>Flurry's beer has the highest alcoholic content of any COG brand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-16086593748532368042008-08-20T03:40:00.000+12:002008-08-20T03:40:00.000+12:00Several of the posts on this thread illustrate the...Several of the posts on this thread illustrate the old saying that, "When you quit believing GOD, you'll believe ANYTHING."larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207263922457941293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-26111439870611594912008-08-20T03:27:00.000+12:002008-08-20T03:27:00.000+12:00"" It really all comes down to who you say Jesus i..."" It really all comes down to who you say Jesus is. That's the dividing line. You either are "in" or your are "out".<BR/><BR/>That's what I have come to love about various literalist Christians and fndamentialists."<BR/><BR/>Those aren't my words, they are the Bible's, so that's too bad if you don't like it. <BR/><BR/>The Bible acknowledges the *worship* of other gods and idols, but doesn't speak as they are real. You can worship a plethora of gods and idols. None of them are real. Hence the discussion of a jealous God, hence the discusion of meats sacrificed to idols. <BR/>Just because people have worshiped other gods doesn't mean that there *are* other gods, just that people worship them. Make sense? I don't know how to make it any clearer. <BR/>If you need something more to worship, I have a tree out back. Any takers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-61400370957688060122008-08-20T02:53:00.000+12:002008-08-20T02:53:00.000+12:00Check it out Gavin. As you predicted, the turkey ...Check it out Gavin. As you predicted, the turkey flies.<BR/><BR/>http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/vision.orgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-58841336956774468252008-08-19T23:53:00.000+12:002008-08-19T23:53:00.000+12:00Now I've seen everything -- a theological argument...Now I've seen everything -- a theological argument about beer.Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15447267814823944883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-18732576683070452742008-08-19T22:24:00.000+12:002008-08-19T22:24:00.000+12:00To digress - I belive the first time I'd heard of ...To digress - I belive the first time I'd heard of Robert <I>L.</I> Kuhn was when it was alleged he had independently arrived at an hypothesis that became HWA's <I>Spirit in Man</I> doctrine. More recently, I came across a mention that Dr Kuhn denied his "discovery" and gave Herb all the credit.<BR/><BR/>Any other info on that? I can see the benefit of HWA getting "approval" in the form of independent source. And Dr K's supposed conclusion would be more credible if it had been made <I>before</I> coming to AC.<BR/><BR/>A few years ago, I came across something Dr Kuhn wrote, this time on finance. In a detailed bio, tales from his Pasadena days were conspicuously missing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-17524906604226943712008-08-19T15:54:00.000+12:002008-08-19T15:54:00.000+12:00"What kind of monster is God in that traditional b...<EM>"What kind of monster is God in that traditional belief about Jesus?"</EM><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge" REL="nofollow">This kind of monster.</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-71933135130001097092008-08-19T14:39:00.000+12:002008-08-19T14:39:00.000+12:00Dennis is right...Israel and Judah adapted the rel...Dennis is right...<BR/><BR/>Israel and Judah adapted the religion of the Cannanites. Much of the law of Moses, most of the Holy Days, the entire sacrificial system, the concepts of God, and even some of the OT writings come right out of Cannan.<BR/><BR/>One of the most important things to understand is that the Passover was a Canaanite festival originally called the "Killing of the Lambs". <BR/><BR/>The Passover comes right out of Pagan sacrificial ritual. <BR/><BR/>That means the NT Passover is also a colossal fraud. <BR/><BR/>Please read the story about Ugarit<BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugarit<BR/><BR/>The tablets from Ugarit PROVE that the much of the OT comes right out of Cannon.<BR/><BR/>It must be noted that God revealed himself to peoples long before Israel came on the scene and many of the Canaanite concepts of God may have been correct.<BR/><BR/>God apparently did give Israel a moral code that had not existed in the same way prior to Israel; the core of this may be the ten commandments and the unique concepts of social justice found in the Prophets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-92113951338461761952008-08-19T14:30:00.000+12:002008-08-19T14:30:00.000+12:0010. No one will kill you for not drinking Beer.You...10. No one will kill you for not drinking Beer.<BR/>You can get killed by drinking Beer and driving.<BR/><BR/>9. Beer doesn't tell you how to have sex.<BR/>Beer can make you forget you even had sex and who you had it with.<BR/><BR/>8. Beer has never caused a major war.<BR/>Beer has started many personal ones.<BR/><BR/>7. They don't force Beer on minors who can't think for themselves.<BR/>Many a minor got in major trouble drinking Beer.<BR/><BR/>6. When you have a Beer, you don't knock on people's doors trying to give it away.<BR/>When you have a Beer, you knock on people’s door needing to pee in their bathroom<BR/><BR/>5. Nobody's ever been burned at the stake, hanged, or tortured over his brand of Beer.<BR/>Somebody drinking the Beer have burned people at the stake, hanged and tortured no matter the brand of Beer.<BR/><BR/>4. You don't have to wait 2000+ years for a second Beer.<BR/>It wouldn’t hurt to wait before having a second Beer.<BR/><BR/>3. There are laws saying Beer labels can't lie to you.<BR/>Rules governing alcoholic-beverage labeling suffer from jurisdictional gaps<BR/><BR/>2. You can prove you have a Beer.<BR/>Prove you had a Beer to the traffic cop and get a free pass to jail.<BR/><BR/>1. If you've devoted your life to Beer, there are groups to help you stop.<BR/>If you have devoted your life to Beer, you are a drunken alcoholic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-87377826446946478002008-08-19T14:19:00.000+12:002008-08-19T14:19:00.000+12:001 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of thing...1 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him."<BR/><BR/>Whoever wrote this acknowledged that "... indeed there are many gods and many lords".<BR/><BR/>The heavenly realm is much more complex then what is described in the OT & NT.<BR/><BR/>The OT & NT are mostly political books; grand attempts at social engineering. <BR/><BR/>Regrettably it worked!<BR/><BR/>Even today, an all male priesthood continues to control the lives of the common folk in the Religious Right.<BR/><BR/>This stuff did not come from Jesus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-37899409367576687102008-08-19T11:42:00.000+12:002008-08-19T11:42:00.000+12:00"Obey all of Torah, or none of it"That is a concep..."Obey all of Torah, or none of it"<BR/><BR/>That is a concept that seems to somehow escape all of the Toraeadors who followed HWA. They think they get to pick and choose. And, they're pretty bull-headed about which ones, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-37939526690708954502008-08-19T11:26:00.000+12:002008-08-19T11:26:00.000+12:00"There are certain facts that will never change. T..."There are certain facts that will never change. They are:<BR/><BR/>1. Two resurrections not three.<BR/>2. Tithing laws not applicable today without Temple or Levitical priesthood.<BR/>3. Baptism only in Jesus name.<BR/>4. Satan will be bodily destroyed in Gehenna.<BR/>5. Either we obey all the Torah or none of it. Therefore, Tassels, are requirements!"<BR/><BR/>If you are going to give a list of things that will never change, it needs to be either 3, 7, 12, 24 or 40 things that never change. <BR/><BR/>That's how the Bible works. <BR/><BR/>Satan has a body? doh....I think I found something that needs to chaaaaaaaannnge :)DennisDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05069884969156562133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-61608889400155514762008-08-19T10:58:00.000+12:002008-08-19T10:58:00.000+12:00>>you seem to bend with every direction the ...>>you seem to bend with every direction the winds seem to blow.<BR/><BR/>I will confess that I haven't worked it all out yet and more often than not, additional information does change my perspective on things, but not the foundation. <BR/><BR/>There are certain facts that will never change. They are:<BR/><BR/>1. Two resurrections not three.<BR/>2. Tithing laws not applicable today without Temple or Levitical priesthood.<BR/>3. Baptism only in Jesus name.<BR/>4. Satan will be bodily destroyed in Gehenna.<BR/>5. Either we obey all the Torah or none of it. Therefore, Tassels, are requirements!<BR/><BR/>There are issues outstanding in my mind on many subjects and waiting for a better understanding.Robert https://www.blogger.com/profile/12120572010028667586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-62973710867712345352008-08-19T10:51:00.000+12:002008-08-19T10:51:00.000+12:00Anonymous said... It is obvious to me that this...<B>Anonymous said...<BR/><BR/> It is obvious to me that this entire debate boils down to one question, and one question only. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that salvation only comes through Him as a free gift? </B><BR/><BR/>DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! Someone pour the man a half a beer!<BR/><BR/>You got this far, can you ask the really big question now? <BR/><BR/>What kind of a picture does such a belief paint about a supposedly MONOTHEISTIC GOD (how you square that with Jesus being his Son I don't know). How could God, who is a merciful loving God who, who as the OT says, gets no pleasure in the blood of bulls and goats in sacrifice.... who prefers a contrite heart... and abhors the sacrifice of human children..... (don't you dare use Abraham and Isaac as model of God and Jesus) could take a human life in such a manner?<BR/><BR/>What kind of monster is God in that traditional belief about Jesus? Why do we need to be saved from God? That's not the Abba Father Jesus speaks about. That's not the Father outlined in the Prodigal Son, that's the "righteous brother in the Prodigal Son that demands the death of his repentant brother".<BR/><BR/>If you get to thinking about that question, I'll buy you the other half of the beer! AMERICAN KABUKIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11064036099785125749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-30645116621902389922008-08-19T10:46:00.000+12:002008-08-19T10:46:00.000+12:00"Judaism/Christianity is unequivocably monotheisti..."Judaism/Christianity is unequivocably monotheistic. That's in stark contrast to the many pagan religions."<BR/><BR/>Perhaps now after a two thousand years of theological evolution, but not in their origins. The OT clearly shows this evolution of the El of Genesis and his council of the gods to an iffy monotheism kept, not kept, kept, not kept by Israelites in general. <BR/><BR/>I'd suggest an evening or two with Twilight of the Gods/Polytheism in the Hebrew Bible by David Penchansky<BR/><BR/>" It really all comes down to who you say Jesus is. That's the dividing line. You either are "in" or your are "out".<BR/><BR/>That's what I have come to love about various literalist Christians and fndamentialists.<BR/><BR/>It's either/ or, true or false, right or wrong, us or them, me or you, Bible or nothing, heaven or hell, kingdom or on firery pond, for us or 'agin us. <BR/><BR/>I still say it's no coincidence that the Dark Ages were dominated by the church and fundamentalism. <BR/><BR/>Annon: I would like your take on why the God of the Ten Commandments tells the people "You shall not bring any other gods into my presence" why? "Because I the lord YOUR God am a JEALOUS God."<BR/><BR/>What's to be jealous of in that context if not the fact that even El/YHVH still acknowleded only a need to be the top god of Israel.<BR/><BR/>The author was not saying, "because we all know ther really aren't any other gods." The story assumed other gods and in that culture that was believable. Of course in ours we have three gods in one but "that's different." <BR/><BR/>While you're at it, who were the "us" in "Let us make man in our image...after "our" likeness" and who were the "us" that said that man should be driven from Eden lest now they take of the tree of life and be like "us" and live forever?<BR/><BR/>It was bad enough that Adam and Eve in the myth took the knowledge of good and evil which was reserved only for the gods, but having eternal life like the gods was too big a threat. <BR/><BR/>This tale,which has many levels of meaning to those who wrote it, none of them literal, stems from ancient mesopotamian tales that the hebrews turned around a bit to make different points about their theology.<BR/><BR/>"ummmmmmmmmmm....beeeeeeeeeer"<BR/>Homer SimpsonDennisDiehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05069884969156562133noreply@blogger.com