tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post339943647495362488..comments2023-11-05T20:19:44.812+13:00Comments on Ambassador Watch: Jiminy CricketGavinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03060097218905523899noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-31844299606716254802009-02-01T14:49:00.000+13:002009-02-01T14:49:00.000+13:00Its the same old routine. Their preachers give th...Its the same old routine. Their preachers give them phrases that sound like HWA activities were something concocted by "hateful" dissident Church of God'ers when their own preachers know the truth and suppressed it all.<BR/><BR/>As to Theil's recent blog on the subject (I notice that unlike Gavin he doesn't give room for opposing viewpoints) what was GTA supposed to say after all? Could GTA verifying it improve his own image when dealing with a known apologist for his long time enemy, Rod Meredith, not likely.<BR/><BR/>What was your Pastor General doing during the "formulative" phase of God's work?" Inquiring minds should ask that question. After all extraordinary claims for God's personal calling in oneself requires extraordinary evidence.<BR/><BR/>PS:<B>Forgiving and forgetting = healing. </B>Nobody forgets their Armstrong experience, how nice it would be if we could! Forgive what was done to us, yes that comes in time. But there's still the obligation of love which requires those who have been through it all, to warn others. AMERICAN KABUKIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11064036099785125749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-16098771669270564212009-01-31T14:38:00.000+13:002009-01-31T14:38:00.000+13:00Neo said:"This proves only that GTA believed that ...Neo said:<BR/>"This proves only that GTA believed that an event took place. Who told him? How did he know? Was someone trying to create a rift between HWA and GTA?"<BR/><BR/>That's a good question. Let's assume for sake of argument, that someone was trying to stir up trouble, like Robinson for instance. Is it reasonable to believe that GTA would believe such a horrendous thing? He would want proof; wouldn't you?<BR/><BR/>We are left with the reasonable conclusion that a trusted, close family member (Dorothy?) was the source of the information, or that GTA made the whole thing up. But then we have the testimony of several other people (some of them family members) who claim that Dorothy also informed them of the same thing.<BR/><BR/>I agree that it is possible that the whole story is some kind of great conspiracy. It is also possible that we are being monitored by aliens. But neither possibility has much probability of being true.Baashabobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13945527695465082450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-27386552094357805822009-01-31T14:06:00.000+13:002009-01-31T14:06:00.000+13:00If I were on a criminal jury for a trial of HWA on...If I were on a criminal jury for a trial of HWA on incest charges, I'd have to find him "not guilty" based on what's been presented.<BR/><BR/>But I'm not on a criminal jury so I can evaluate what has been presented and decide for myself whether or not I believe it. I think it quite plausible that he did what he was accused of.<BR/><BR/>Since we don't have conclusive evidence, Neo and others are free to disbelieve it. I rather suspect they'd still disbelieve it even if there were a videotape of HWA doing the nasty with his daughter.<BR/><BR/>I have to agree with Byker Bob that it was unfortunate that this came to light. It turns the conversation toward the possible abuse by HWA of one child and away from his abuse of thousands of other children who grew up in Armstrongism.Mike (Don't Drink the Flavor Aid)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15447267814823944883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-6823724736430000072009-01-31T13:47:00.000+13:002009-01-31T13:47:00.000+13:00Neo - Was someone trying to create a rift between ...Neo - <I>Was someone trying to create a rift between HWA and GTA?</I><BR/><BR/>Is that meant to be a rhetorical question?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-57202221124148933252009-01-31T12:37:00.000+13:002009-01-31T12:37:00.000+13:00Basshob:You wrote: "Yes, taken out of context it i...Basshob:<BR/><BR/>You wrote: "Yes, taken out of context it is inconclusive. But He also said, a little less inconclusively, "You f****d my sister." That comment was addressed to the old man himself."<BR/><BR/>This proves only that GTA believed that an event took place. Who told him? How did he know? Was someone trying to create a rift between HWA and GTA? There are all kinds of reasons why this might have been said. But it does not constitue evidence.<BR/><BR/>-- NeoNeothermhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06546163563669263135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-36688390830028781662009-01-31T10:35:00.000+13:002009-01-31T10:35:00.000+13:00"That is not just a religious or Christian princip...<EM>"That is not just a religious or Christian principle. It is recognized by shrinks, in karmic terms, and does provide tremendous relief."</EM><BR/><BR/>Oh, yeah, I'm in complete agreement with that GP. Unfortunately, right now, I seem to have the forgetting part down pat, as in forgetting how to let things slide on the way I once was able to. Backsliding? Hell yeah. How to bring myself out of it, however, is the part I haven't quite figured out yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-87546099579536038102009-01-31T08:29:00.000+13:002009-01-31T08:29:00.000+13:00Charlie said:" I finally learned how to kick some ...Charlie said:<BR/><BR/>" I finally learned how to kick some ass of my own. Those skills came in handy on more than one occasion."<BR/><BR/>Yep, that's why I got my belts in Karate and EMT training when a pastor. I could tell the church.."Look, I can marry you, I can bury you, I can kick you ass and I can fix it. What more do you want from me?"<BR/><BR/>It was never enough.<BR/><BR/>:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-84926358334874176302009-01-31T05:29:00.000+13:002009-01-31T05:29:00.000+13:00PH~ I feel badly for you because you've told us t...PH~ I feel badly for you because you've told us that your life basically sucks and now you say this is a cesspit. Your memories of what Armstrongism have taken away from you are still painful.<BR/><BR/>Forgiving and forgetting = healing.<BR/><BR/>That is not just a religious or Christian principle. It is recognized by shrinks, in karmic terms, and does provide tremendous relief. While it appears to be something we do for others, reality is that we benefit directly from it ourselves. It releases those pain bodies Dennis keeps alluding to.<BR/><BR/>Don't think of it as a Bible thing, or a God thing. It is a dynamic principle that anyone can apply, and it doesn't discriminate.<BR/>It is something you can do that will give you seat of the pants improvement that you can feel!<BR/><BR/>~Green Phantom~Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-65906910190026783702009-01-31T02:34:00.000+13:002009-01-31T02:34:00.000+13:00Anonymous wrote: "No one can refute the teach...Anonymous wrote: "No one can refute the teachings, however, and that is why the man is so hated. In reality it's not HWA that is hated, but God."<BR/><BR/>-->Sigh<-- Just another glaring example of the deification of armstrong. During his time on earth he often equated disagreement with him as rebellion against God and here 23 years later, people are still equating armstrong with God.<BR/><BR/>Sad Sad Sad<BR/><BR/>And that little boy starting to sermonize...I can relate. I wound up in many a fistfight during my schoolboy years defending armstrongism. If there was one thing good that came out of that is that after getting my ass kicked the first few times, I finally learned how to kick some ass of my own. Those skills came in handy on more than one occasion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-67696036694130580192009-01-31T01:24:00.000+13:002009-01-31T01:24:00.000+13:00The Purp noted:"The bible refutes its own teaching...The Purp noted:<BR/><BR/>"The bible refutes its own teachings, while we're on the subject."<BR/><BR/>Now that's a great one liner...and true. Copies of copies of copies of copies of copies can never quite be trusted. As Bart Erdman says, "Before you can understand what the text means, you have to understand what it really said."<BR/><BR/>At the next level, one who looks with a critical eye and not just an emotional connection, will see that what most take for history, inerrancy and harmony of belief is anything but and was never meant to be. <BR/><BR/>We choke on the sentence, "The Bible is not the best book ever written."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-48163514753458952842009-01-30T22:47:00.000+13:002009-01-30T22:47:00.000+13:00"Not too long ago I heard a 5 year old of COG pare...<EM>"Not too long ago I heard a 5 year old of COG parentage wax eloquent on not using "oh my gosh" because God didn't like it.....and to my knowledge no one around him had, he just launched into the lecture on his own."</EM><BR/><BR/>That's the saddest thing I've read in this cesspit all week. :-(<BR/><BR/><EM>"Quite simply, the bible itself refutes the man's teachings."</EM><BR/><BR/>The bible refutes its own teachings, while we're on the subject.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-15343274867842166972009-01-30T22:19:00.000+13:002009-01-30T22:19:00.000+13:00Anon 5:22 - I think HWA a similar account related ...Anon 5:22 - I think HWA a similar account related to euphemistic profanity in his <I>Autobiography</I> (1967). It was the story of "Dickie's first sermon."<BR/><BR/>Years ago I was with a family walking to their car, about to go to services. Some old ladies asked their 5 yo son where he was going, and he started to talk about going to Holy Day services. They didn't have a clue what he was on about...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-75131676244699267382009-01-30T22:11:00.000+13:002009-01-30T22:11:00.000+13:00Anon 1:39, unless you were directing your comments...Anon 1:39, unless you were directing your comments toward a particular post, I think you will find HWA is not the only recipient of citicism. And following the rule against <I>ad hominem</I> argument, I think the criticism is leveled at acts, not persona.<BR/><BR/>I try to maintain the feeling about HWA et al similar that expressed by Leland (Joseph Cotten) about Kane (Orsen Welles) in <I>Citizen Kane</I>: "He wasn't a <I>mean</I> man, he just did <I>mean</I> things." Others may, and have the right, to disagree.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-85302570140465703942009-01-30T19:36:00.000+13:002009-01-30T19:36:00.000+13:00As a second generation cultboy I was thoroughly wa...As a second generation cultboy I was thoroughly warned against the dangers of such blasphemous words and phrases!!<BR/><BR/>It was only later in life (ok, not that much later) that I learned a truth, best expressed by Mark Twain:<BR/><BR/>"In certain trying circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity furnishes a relief denied even to prayer."<BR/><BR/>Think Twain was only a humorist, a writer? Think on the following:<BR/><BR/>"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination."<BR/><BR/>Oops! That sounded positively Herbal! Speaking of which, Twain knew at least one of Harmstrongs laws of success...<BR/><BR/>"All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure."<BR/><BR/>And again:<BR/><BR/>"I am not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts."<BR/><BR/>And for all you AC grads:<BR/><BR/>"Training is everything. The peach was once a bitter almond; cauliflower is nothing but cabbage with a college education."<BR/><BR/>And one last one for the Weiner dude and all other self appointed prophets:<BR/><BR/>"Prophesy is a good line of business, but it is full of risks."<BR/><BR/>KMSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-17835109833468420652009-01-30T19:04:00.000+13:002009-01-30T19:04:00.000+13:00Anonymous 01:39 saod "No one can refute the teachi...Anonymous 01:39 saod "No one can refute the teachings, however, and that is why the man is so hated. In reality it's not HWA that is hated, but God." <BR/><BR/>LOL! ROFL! Quite simply, the bible itself refutes the man's teachings.Vaughn Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13149153951231373514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-24087697242323001732009-01-30T18:25:00.000+13:002009-01-30T18:25:00.000+13:00"No one can refute the teachings, however, and tha..."No one can refute the teachings, however, and that is why the man is so hated. In reality it's not HWA that is hated, but God."<BR/><BR/>You are farther into your delusions than I can even imagine one to be. Every single facet of "the teachings" is refutable, disprovable, and exposable. It matters not what you try to exemplify as being some sort of true "teaching", every single one of them can be rendered incorrect and worthless. Post anything and everything and I assure you, every single one, without any exceptions at all, will be disproven. However, even if and when this occurs, you will still wander aimlessly with your rose coloured glasses believing dead words from a dead snake oil salesman.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-83644690982810594302009-01-30T17:33:00.000+13:002009-01-30T17:33:00.000+13:00"No one can refute the teachings, however, and tha..."No one can refute the teachings, however, and that is why the man is so hated. In reality it's not HWA that is hated, but God."<BR/><BR/>Right, that's why theologians all over the earth are flocking to United, PCG, RCG and Ron Weinland. Thousands are surrendering their professorships by the day and leaving their studies having seen the light. The theology section at Barnes and Noble has been cleaned out and space made for COG booklets. <BR/><BR/>Actually the teachings are rather easy to refute but it's at a level of refutation you would not understand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-27855101205721774392009-01-30T17:27:00.000+13:002009-01-30T17:27:00.000+13:00Purp said:"I dunno Dennis. If you're sensing a dow...Purp said:<BR/>"I dunno Dennis. If you're sensing a downturn, maybe it's the ill winds blowing from my currently-crappy life. :-("<BR/><BR/>It's just your story and painbody. The real you is under there somewhere. :)<BR/><BR/>Give me call sometime and we'll chat about it DennisCDiehl@aol.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-24576209977021180322009-01-30T17:22:00.000+13:002009-01-30T17:22:00.000+13:00Not too long ago I heard a 5 year old of COG paren...Not too long ago I heard a 5 year old of COG parentage wax eloquent on not using "oh my gosh" because God didn't like it.....and to my knowledge no one around him had, he just launched into the lecture on his own.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-7424759171676731362009-01-30T15:20:00.000+13:002009-01-30T15:20:00.000+13:00There have been any number of supposed "coffin nai...There have been any number of supposed "coffin nails" driven into Armstrongism over the years, but a certain hard core refuses to believe them or to modify their behavior as a result of them.<BR/><BR/>Whether it be anecdotes repeated by HWA's close staff, failed prophecy, or more accurate exigesis pertinent to major doctrines, the hard core ones always find a way around them so that they can continue believing their beloved Armstrongism.<BR/><BR/>If David Robinson was halfway hip, after revealing the conversations in which he participated regarding the history of HWA's relationship with Dorothy, he might have gone off singing: "Bye bye Mr. Incest Pie..." thinking that the final ultimate nail had just been pounded into the coffin. But, while those allegations always capture major attention, they have largely served to capture the interest which might otherwise be dedicated to the serious disproofs of the doctrines, and failed prophecy. In a sense, they have become an obstacle to people's leaving the movement, as opposed to an incentive. It's like a mother attacking her son's wife, and ending up unifying the couple. So, in a sense, I often wish that the incest issue had never been exposed. It becomes a two edged lightning rod.<BR/><BR/>BBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-38990431148600797572009-01-30T15:03:00.000+13:002009-01-30T15:03:00.000+13:00The Eleventh Commandment:Thou shalt not blog witho...The Eleventh Commandment:<BR/><BR/>Thou shalt not blog without the <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0226104036/interactiveda482-20" REL="nofollow">Chicago Manual of Style.</A> AMERICAN KABUKIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11064036099785125749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-71543573255895938142009-01-30T13:39:00.000+13:002009-01-30T13:39:00.000+13:00The criticism seem contained to the man, HWA.No on...The criticism seem contained to the man, HWA.<BR/><BR/>No one can refute the teachings, however, and that is why the man is so hated. In reality it's not HWA that is hated, but God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-2667198190260386482009-01-30T13:04:00.000+13:002009-01-30T13:04:00.000+13:00There seems to be here and on YouTube a concentrat...There seems to be here and on YouTube a concentrated effort to de-demonise<BR/>HWA dealing with the incest issue. Well the Plain Truth is that there is enough evidence in a court of law to have convicted the Herbster of incest. However as we all know, that trial will never come to pass in a court of law. What we do have is a <A HREF="http://www.hwarmstrong.com/incest.htm" REL="nofollow">psychological study</A> of human beings and what they say or don't say that can give evidence of criminal activity.<BR/><BR/>1) Herb never denied the charge.<BR/>2) His daughter never denied that the event. (You would think that she would protect her dear father.)<BR/>3) We have the <A HREF="http://www.quango.net/ekklesia/wcghistory/armstrong-divorce.jpg" REL="nofollow">Tulsa Press</A> article.<BR/>4) We have the FACT that the author of HWA's Tangled Web was never sued for his reporting of facts straight from a drunken Herbert Armstrong. Herbie only tried to STOP the book from being released.<BR/><BR/>I have given just a small <A HREF="http://www.hwarmstrong.com/kessler.htm" REL="nofollow">tidbit</A> of evidence that Herb was guilty. The Armstrongist believers here apparently do not believe what their own bible says about the testimony of witnesses. Really, they will deny this issue until the casket top is closed. <BR/><BR/>I write on this blog about this issue of incest and on YouTube, but people do not have a open mind on this. They will deny that Herbert was a religious charlatan. They only want to tell you that the man was the fulfillment of this or that, and that he was an apostle.<BR/><BR/>Well let me tell you "herbalist's" this fact. We will never go away. We will post and produce until our final days, proclaiming the Plain Truth about Herbert W. Armstrong.<BR/><BR/>As a former wcg minister wrote: <A HREF="http://www.hwarmstrong.com/enlyten-we-sold-our-education.htm" REL="nofollow">I’ve often wondered if <BR/> Herbie ever had the chance to do what L. Ron Hubbard <BR/> did. Hubbard, toward the end of his life, had a swarm <BR/> of dedicated loyalists actually sign a statement of <BR/> unswerving loyalty to him for the rest of eternity. <BR/> This happening was related by an ex-Scientologist. <BR/> Would Herbie have demanded such written statements of <BR/> loyalty? It’s not the first time such similar things <BR/> happened in Worldwide. However, if anyone did that, the <BR/> first thing they’d throw away would be their free will <BR/> to choose their own thinking. If anyone does this, then <BR/> they’d throw away their natural mental progression, <BR/> they’d stop thinking “outside the envelope,” their <BR/> education would cease, and their intellect would bury <BR/> itself deep within the nearest sewer.</A><BR/><BR/>As for the rest of you HWA fans here and elsewhere, the public will never accept in a post Christian era the crap you publish and push on TV or the internet. If someone does a google search on Herb they will see a vast amount of anti herbal website. I must ask, did your minister put you up to this? <BR/><BR/>Times are tough economically speaking. The churches of God may just sink into oblivion in this recession. I say good!<BR/><BR/>One reader of the AR wrote after Herb went to hell: I really feel that HWA should be given the "Lenin treatment" now in existence in Moscow. Herbie could be stuffed, placed in a crystal glass showcase, and set up in the lobby of his cathedral building for all his devotees to adore. I'm sure he would like <A HREF="http://www.hwarmstrong.com/ar/AR35.html" REL="nofollow">that.</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-89476558684623750962009-01-30T10:04:00.000+13:002009-01-30T10:04:00.000+13:00"There has been a discernable downturn of late her...<EM>"There has been a discernable downturn of late here on what seemed to be collective progress with the WCG experience among the regulars here.<BR/><BR/>At the risk of sounding too Tolle-ish, the painbodies have overtaken the fort.<BR/><BR/>What happened?"</EM><BR/><BR/>Market correction?<BR/><BR/>I dunno Dennis. If you're sensing a downturn, maybe it's the ill winds blowing from my currently-crappy life. :-(<BR/><BR/>OK! Enough of that self-pity schtick. Who wants to talk <A HREF="http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2009/01/toilet-paper-preacher.html" REL="nofollow">toilet paper</A>?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-82973033477609824932009-01-30T09:57:00.000+13:002009-01-30T09:57:00.000+13:00Well golly gee willakers, my starts and garters, j...Well golly gee willakers, my starts and garters, jiminy cricket, gee whiz!<BR/><BR/>Well, say what you want about me, that's one thing that doesn't bug me anymore! :-)Russell Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03551250544512295798noreply@blogger.com