tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post3324635293510409060..comments2023-11-05T20:19:44.812+13:00Comments on Ambassador Watch: Matchmaker, matchmaker...Gavinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03060097218905523899noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-28451027469272403462008-09-16T03:14:00.000+12:002008-09-16T03:14:00.000+12:00Dear Anonymous:«both Homer and Norm … are after a ...Dear Anonymous:<BR/>«both Homer and Norm … are after a free ride.»<BR/><BR/>You are wrong--Homer does not ask for money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-89914405627827056972007-10-16T17:27:00.000+13:002007-10-16T17:27:00.000+13:00Is this the dual of the narcissists or what?I've j...Is this the dual of the narcissists or what?<BR/><BR/>I've just read some of the stuff from both Homer and Norm. And, the best that can be done is to leave these two alone to fight it out. Both invent their own truths that are not based in facts. And, both men are after a free ride. <BR/><BR/>Douglas has it right ... run and hide from these nut cases. And, the best that can be done after harmed is save your family and get on with your life around sain people. <BR/><BR/>Thanks be to the Eternal for his grace and mercy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-16647400177610450152007-09-20T04:06:00.000+12:002007-09-20T04:06:00.000+12:00Folks, the whole sordid story can be found by read...Folks, the whole sordid story can be found by reading between the lines at <BR/>the <A HREF="http://portaustinbiblecenter.com/history.html" REL="nofollow">Port Austin Bible <BR/>Center History page</A>.<BR/><BR/>There you can see that the Exide Battery Man is none other than Paul Hawkins. He is the one who started all this.<BR/><BR/>Now don't get me wrong, I'm sensitive to injustices and want to be merciful in my outlook, but hey, wait just one darn minute here! If you are depending upon a man who has just been sent to prison for one of the biggest scams in American Corporate history ever, prudence would suggest caution over hubris. Any rational person would have quickly departed the scene and not have been talked into a con by a con to set up a Bible Center. Unfortunately, by their fruit ye shall know them, oft a little too late after consuming the poisoned fruit.<BR/><BR/>I would like to remain sympathetic, but after reading stuff at http://homerkizer.org/ I'm just not buying it. Especially disturbing is not just the opening page, but a really disturbing exposition lies in the open letter to the President of Iran.<BR/><BR/>I'm afraid.<BR/><BR/>Very afraid.<BR/><BR/>For the participants of PABC.<BR/><BR/>My counsel is to leave that place and never return.Douglas Beckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05639275357879979640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-16151204858465691142007-09-12T17:57:00.000+12:002007-09-12T17:57:00.000+12:00By staying in the property Norman may be establish...By staying in the property Norman may be establishing a squatter’s claim and a sweat equity claim. In the end, this may further embroil the dispute, especially if, as seems likely, the original mortgage holder goes into default. In order to establish this claim, Norman would have to keep said property as his primary residence. Moreover, the property in question has to have a demonstrated negative impact if allowed to be fallow. None of this seems to apply to the property in question which only marginally could be thought of as ever being residential in the first place and is of no great improvement through Norman’s occupation nor great desolation should he leave. The campus is, quite frankly, worthless. Norman would under conventional circumstances have no chance to ever own it. If the bank in question simply decides to walk away from the property (unlikely), it would revert to the Federal Government and then to the Township. Bank conventions being what they are, the holder will probably simply evict Norman and sell it for what they can and then go after the mortgage holder for the difference. In the end, the note’s final recourse is with the mortgage holder and not the value of lien property. Not that I have any sympathy for the mortgage holder nor her felon husband. <BR/><BR/>I still can’t help but shake the idea that forming a commune is a universally bad idea, no matter who is involved. Even farm co-ops have conventions in place for a pecking order of equals. Even in countries where communal living has a history, such as Israel, the rules of self-governance are backed up by an underpinning of formal law. In the United States, no such conventions exist. Even the powers of a condo association have stern limits and external recourse. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, everyone involved in this winged it.<BR/><BR/>Hopefully the injured parties can simply move on, live on and rebuild. As for the perp, his landlord and her criminal spouse, what is due them is not for us to decide. <BR/><BR/>Mark LaxAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-34078978625229591912007-09-12T06:42:00.000+12:002007-09-12T06:42:00.000+12:00I was recently in the Wisconsin Dells area and wen...I was recently in the Wisconsin Dells area and went out to look at the old WWCG Festival Site. I have pictures if anyone would like to see the condition of the site. Send an e-mail address to carrsonj@hotmail.com for pictures by return mail. JGCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-27855621555122431022007-09-12T02:20:00.000+12:002007-09-12T02:20:00.000+12:00Carolyn,Mark really is on your side. He assisted i...Carolyn,<BR/><BR/>Mark really is on your side. He assisted in exposing at least a part of the whole sad tragic Port Austin affair.<BR/><BR/>He really wants to champion the cause of those who are hurt by cults and cult leaders -- he has suffered loss and really has a sincere heart. It is unfortunate that he made the reference he did, although it is difficult to fault him given some of the postings which have been made over the matter elsewhere.<BR/><BR/>I am so sorry this has happened. It does appear that whenever people attempt to build communities of this sort, somewhere someone comes along to undermine and destroy the foundation of that which is being built. This is not the only attempt of building these kinds of communities which has failed. Perhaps, it is never to be in this age.<BR/><BR/>It isn't just the pocketbook. It's the betrayal. That is so difficult to navigate. Seldom is justice done. The only thing left is whatever faith we might carry with us.<BR/><BR/>It may well be, if NSE has encountered a psychopath, as seems more than likely, he is as much a victim as everyone else, with a ruined life in chaos and a wrecked reputation subject to public scrutiny and he may very well be as unable to cope as anyone else. What are the options in this circumstance? They would be limited at best -- a sort of Hobb's Choice where you get the pick the least worst of two or more very bad options in "a deal with the Devil" -- a patsy and fall guy who can be the whipping boy, while the manipulator stands behind the scenes laughing.<BR/><BR/>Here is hoping that eventually you all will be able to put this behind you. It is so very difficult. In spite of how it looks, I usually go on and forget almost immediately what occurs. Unfortunately, if you are in a situation which continues to remind you endlessly, I do know that the pain continues.<BR/><BR/>Here is hoping that you will find peace.<BR/><BR/>DouglasDouglas Beckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05639275357879979640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-21703805682873413522007-09-12T02:04:00.000+12:002007-09-12T02:04:00.000+12:00Ah, acuracy. Um... accurracy. No, um... ackerasee....Ah, acuracy. Um... accurracy. No, um... ackerasee. Uh, accurasee.<BR/><BR/>Darn!Douglas Beckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05639275357879979640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-29534862418988750342007-09-12T01:18:00.000+12:002007-09-12T01:18:00.000+12:00This comment has been removed by the author.Carolynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739092264483620130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-7899485002827833182007-09-11T23:50:00.000+12:002007-09-11T23:50:00.000+12:00This comment has been removed by the author.Carolynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01739092264483620130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-52048898703998065012007-09-11T18:17:00.000+12:002007-09-11T18:17:00.000+12:00I must say… never, ever have I seen so many posts ...I must say… never, ever have I seen so many posts simply withdrawn on any topic. <BR/><BR/>It’s nice to see that Homer and Carolyn are still alive and filled with venom. <BR/><BR/>For those of you new to the story, I stand by the contention made in the piece referenced by Douglas Becker. <BR/><BR/>“This claim, which consists of a proposal, some pictures, and an incorporation statement—and little else, was used as a prop to provide funding for this fantastic and largely fictional non profit land development enterprise. In some round about way that is a joy to lawyers seeking employment everywhere, this proposal enjoined Norman Edwards (and some other people who should not be trusted with the conduct of their own affairs) to sublet land from the fictional non profit. With this money, the fictional non profit was able to establish some claim of development on the otherwise destitute future cow pasture known as Port Austin.”<BR/><BR/>I pray that the Kizers move on with their lives and that their finances recover. <BR/><BR/>As for anyone dealing with Norman Edwards, I advise you to CLUTCH WALLET TIGHTLY and back away as quickly as possible before turning and breaking into full throttle locomotion in the direction opposite of his. <BR/><BR/>As I understand it, the Kizers have formed their own church, the Philadelphia Church of God at Port Austin. None of this, by the way, is making the place seem all that attractive. <BR/><BR/>Mark LaxAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-46037626403415946552007-09-11T13:11:00.000+12:002007-09-11T13:11:00.000+12:00Douglas, is Norm Douglas Pearson's brother-in-law?...<I>Douglas, is Norm Douglas Pearson's brother-in-law?</I><BR/><BR/>I don't know for certain. Mark Lax is the one who brought it up in <A HREF="http://www.churchcorporate.com/Drama_and_Horror.html" REL="nofollow">Drama and <BR/>Horror</A>. Alan E. Gauthier is another name. You are certainly right about it being worse than I can imagine, though I can imagine a lot.<BR/><BR/>I decided to go to wisdom which is greater than mine and post it:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.churchcorporate.com/Lies.html" REL="nofollow">Propaganda and Debating <BR/>Techniques by A. Orange into a summarized web page</A>.<BR/><BR/>It gives a great deal of enlightenment about various techniques of persuasion, including the ones relevant to this particular topic.Douglas Beckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05639275357879979640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-10910383395735989202007-09-11T10:29:00.000+12:002007-09-11T10:29:00.000+12:00Douglas Becker said, "It hasn't been until now tha...Douglas Becker said, "It hasn't been until now that the connection between his brother-in-law in prison for the Exide Battery scam has been logically associated with Norm's behavior over the past three to four years while the drama of Port Austin has developed" and "I was speaking of Douglas Pearson."<BR/><BR/>Douglas, is Norm Douglas Pearson's brother-in-law? If so, this worse than you can imagine.<BR/><BR/>My only knowledge is of Arthur Hawkins, the ex-President of Excide Batteries who was accused of fraud in selling used batteries to Sears as DieHards. He was actually convicted of wire fraud and is in Federal prison in Kentucky. He is the previous owner of Port Austin air base--his wife Cindy is still the current mortgage holder (known as ELBI), to whom Norm is months behind in $5,000/month payments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-38142846187980258672007-09-11T10:22:00.000+12:002007-09-11T10:22:00.000+12:00Douglas said :The only thing left is to determine ...Douglas said :<BR/><BR/><I>The only thing left is to determine the strategy to leave the chaos behind and resume living as best as can be recovered.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, exactly, Douglas. My strategy (like many) began with my exodus from Worldweird in 1995. I had no ill will toward any of the Armstrongs (and they are all the same in that sorry bunch of free loaders), or even the Herbster's theology until a few years later. After I was able to get my spiritual head screwed on straight I finally started investigating that evil man's empire and how he was able to build it.<BR/><BR/>God speed the day when every last ACOG is dead and buried -- just like the Herbster now is. And I don't believe in any literal Hell fire, but if there really is one . . . it's going to get pretty crowded down there as these ACOG "ministers" continue to bite the dust and meet their reward.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-80188885277274494782007-09-11T08:38:00.000+12:002007-09-11T08:38:00.000+12:00Papal, enlighten me. I was speaking of Douglas Pea...Papal, enlighten me. I was speaking of Douglas Pearson, the vice-president of Exide North American Operations. I certainly do want to be as accurate as possible.<BR/><BR/>Concerning psychopaths in general, I would hope that my years of experience with both narcissists and psychopaths would at some point benefit those at this forum because the chances are that some time in life, it is likely that many of those here will either encounter one as a target or will be close to someone who is. If it is possible to spare one victim, taking slings and arrows will be worth it.<BR/><BR/>Papal, while I agree with you that there should be both accountability and restitution, it does appear that things have proceeded too far past "the tipping point" to ever come to a satisfactory resolution.<BR/><BR/>As you intimate, though, blaming the victim only succeeds in defending the abuse. To do so returns us to all those extreme moments in history where evil was allowed to continue by good people who did nothing.<BR/><BR/>In the aftermath, it can be fairly safe in concluding that there will never be any repayment. What anyone chooses to do at this point must be done in the vacuum of knowing that there won't be any real justice done, not even if there is a positive court decision. People cannot give what they do not have.<BR/><BR/>The only thing left is to determine the strategy to leave the chaos behind and resume living as best as can be recovered.<BR/><BR/>It would be so nice if everything resolved itself well to everyones' satisfaction, but the test of character is how we live with what we are dealt.<BR/><BR/>I feel sad.Douglas Beckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05639275357879979640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-40694398396517678432007-09-11T06:52:00.000+12:002007-09-11T06:52:00.000+12:00Douglas Becker said," connection between his broth...Douglas Becker said,<BR/><BR/>" connection between his brother-in-law in prison for the Exide Battery scam has been logically associated with Norm's behavior" <BR/><BR/>Norm's brother-in-law is not Arthur Hawkins, who is Excide exsecutive who was sent to Federal prison for the largest case of fraud in US history. However, Norm's questionable filings currently before the court have been discussed among attorneys and clients as the most blatant case of fraud in Huron County.<BR/><BR/>Bamboo_Ends said, "I will allow that Norm could have changed since 1985." Norm filed the documents with the court listed in <A HREF="http://homerkizer.org/Open%20Letter%20to%20Peter%20Kershaw.html" REL="nofollow">Peter Kershaw Letter</A>. Only ostriches refuse to take their head out of the sand and make an informed decision. Calling someone a "competing ministry" and, thus, by default incapable of relaying verifiable truth, without checking it out for yourself, only enables nefarious behavior to continue--you're doing nothing to stop someone from defrauding a brother. When you and others have the power to stop this behavior and choose not to, you enable the devouring of the flock.<BR/><BR/>Here <A HREF="http://portaustinsabbatariancommunity.com/terrywilliams.html" REL="nofollow">Terry Williams</A> speaks out--he is the one whom Norm admits owing many thousands of dollars--but whom Norm has not made restitution of one red cent!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-23707747061922625642007-09-11T05:16:00.000+12:002007-09-11T05:16:00.000+12:00How could we not. It's the 56,432nd time you've me...<I>How could we not. It's the 56,432nd time you've mentioned it on AW.</I><BR/><BR/>Your estimate is quite overinflated which seriously undermines your credibility if you expect anyone to take you seriously.<BR/><BR/>Two things: It often seems the case that I overestimate people. I view most of the people on this forum as being sophisticated, knowledgeable, smart. Some postings have undermined this particular perspective. There do seem to be people who actually don't seem to understand or even have a clue but act as though they do.<BR/><BR/>The other thing is the topic in context. Many people believe that Norman Edwards is a good person; others believe that he is a terrible person.<BR/><BR/>It hasn't been until now that the connection between his brother-in-law in prison for the Exide Battery scam has been logically associated with Norm's behavior over the past three to four years while the drama of Port Austin has developed.<BR/><BR/>While there is no direct proof, it seems clear enough that NSE was persuaded by a man in prison that the Port Austin property was viable. He got sucked into the matter innocently, wanting to do what he thought was best for the Sabbattarian Community. As with so many scams, it was impossible to count the full cost up front. As time went by, more and more resources had to be put into just slow the rate at which things were falling behind. It eventually escalated into a full blown tragedy.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, I didn't get it myself for quite some time after this topic was posted. Psychopaths arrange it so that the patsy fall-guy is the one who looks like the bad guy.<BR/><BR/>As to bringing up the topic again and again, it would seem appropriate because a lot of people still haven't gotten it and perhaps never will. Perhaps Dr. Hare and Dr. Babiak are wasting their time. Why bother? The world is filled with empty headed twits who think they know enough about everything to get along. I cannot assume that for myself.<BR/><BR/>It would be a tragedy if some innocent were sucked into this or some similar scam for lack of exposition. But then, for SOME people it would provide great amusement to call them dupes and fools who should have known better. It is a great exercise in self-righteousness for the Modern Pharisee, confident in his own prowess to discern the truth.<BR/><BR/>You seem to be of the opinion that if a person repeats a truth long enough and often enough, it is no longer true.<BR/><BR/>Such a proposition, if true, would be quite damaging and would play into the hands of psychopaths and narcissists. I always find that the psychopaths and narcissists are the ones to protest most strongly when they are exposed for what they are: It strikes a sensitive nerve.<BR/><BR/>Some things bear repeating.<BR/><BR/>Until those who need to get the picture actually get it. A lot depends on it. Many people could be spared....<BR/><BR/>Or perhaps because you got it, you don't care any more and are of the opinion that the stupid people who don't get it right away should be left to their own devices because you are bored and don't care about anyone else?<BR/><BR/>Or worse, maybe you didn't really get it and think you did? Nothing you've posted actually validates the suggestion that you did really get it, only the proposition that you are bored and had enough facts and that we should all move on....Douglas Beckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05639275357879979640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-18306445088880229272007-09-11T04:47:00.000+12:002007-09-11T04:47:00.000+12:00"Does everybody get that?"How could we not. It's t..."Does everybody get that?"<BR/><BR/>How could we not. It's the 56,432nd time you've mentioned it on AW.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-82373555654521178952007-09-10T14:43:00.000+12:002007-09-10T14:43:00.000+12:00But if you knew Norm, you'd hardly call him a thre...<I>But if you knew Norm, you'd hardly call him a threat to anyone.</I><BR/><BR/>Here's how it works.<BR/><BR/>A person gets involved with a psychopath.<BR/><BR/>The psychopath plays games and puts them in a compromising position where the choices are lousy.<BR/><BR/>The person makes choices which violate their own conscience because they don't have a viable way to deal with the chaos. These choices often include theft and deception.<BR/><BR/>For many people one encounter with a psychopath changes them forever and they never really recover. Usually, their careers and reputation are ruined and often their finances are in a shamble.<BR/><BR/>And the collateral damage can be colossal.<BR/><BR/>Does everybody get that?Douglas Beckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05639275357879979640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-11701556627473443612007-09-10T09:59:00.000+12:002007-09-10T09:59:00.000+12:00papal said... bamboo_bends said "he sees no nee...<I> papal said...<BR/><BR/> bamboo_bends said "he sees no need to castigate a man as inherently evil."<BR/><BR/> Check out The Port Austin Odyssey, especially the documentation contained in the Peter Kershaw letter. You can judge for yourself what all the hooplah is about.</I><BR/><BR/> You kind of make my case, those reports are from a competing ministry - Kizer's! Yet another "we are the Philadelphians and you're not" sabbatarian group.<BR/><BR/>I have no particular desire to see any of these groups thrive, Norm's included. But if you knew Norm, you'd hardly call him a threat to anyone. Personally I'd like to see Norm leave all that rot behind and put his efforts into something useful, like making this a better planet, and encouraging the youth to marry widely. The best mates never stepped foot inside a Sabbatarian sect and never went to Ambassador.<BR/><BR/>I mean really, they all sound like a bunch of professional wrestlers in their rhetoric. They talk about Godly love and call each other liars, thieves and spawn of the devil. <BR/><BR/>I will allow that Norm could have changed since 1985. I sure did. But then I got rolled around a half dozen ways which Norm didn't. So I suspect, other than the trauma of watching mothership WCG imploding, he's not all that different, except maybe with a lot less hair. AMERICAN KABUKIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11064036099785125749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-71736067212858986302007-09-10T07:57:00.000+12:002007-09-10T07:57:00.000+12:00I think the issue of Servant News has some interes...I think the issue of Servant News has some interesting ideas in it particularly related to their treatment of the Hebrew word "na'ar" and their discussion on Education. <BR/><BR/>Good to see some focus on scholarship and working to develop accurate biblical understandings. <BR/><BR/>Hope to see more of the same in the future.<BR/><BR/>Samuel Martin<BR/>www.biblechild.comSamuel Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10073427515747592924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-76725100522143814962007-09-10T03:23:00.000+12:002007-09-10T03:23:00.000+12:00If Norman Edwards is not a psychopath, he very wel...If Norman Edwards is not a psychopath, he very well could have come under the thrall of a psychopath.<BR/><BR/>Researchers knowing that they were dealing with a psychopath have fallen prey to them. One researcher was interviewing a psychopath in prison. She ended up "falling in love with him", marrying him and having her career ruined by him. Even knowledgeable people fall prey to such predators. <BR/><BR/>It is not beyond imagination that has happened here: Manipulation of the innocent and the patsies left holding the bag. From Exide to PABC. Make a great book title?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-80696058439632381122007-09-10T03:11:00.000+12:002007-09-10T03:11:00.000+12:00This comment has been removed by the author.Douglas Beckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05639275357879979640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-84707593149987648272007-09-10T00:44:00.000+12:002007-09-10T00:44:00.000+12:00bamboo_bends said "he sees no need to castigate a ...bamboo_bends said "he sees no need to castigate a man as inherently evil."<BR/><BR/>Check out <A HREF="http://homerkizer.org/PAOdyssey.html" REL="nofollow">The Port Austin Odyssey</A>, especially the documentation contained in the <A HREF="http://homerkizer.org/Open%20Letter%20to%20Peter%20Kershaw.html" REL="nofollow">Peter Kershaw</A> letter. You can judge for yourself what all the hooplah is about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-14458358199954337502007-09-09T18:54:00.000+12:002007-09-09T18:54:00.000+12:00Douglas Becker said... I found Norm to be hones...<I>Douglas Becker said...<BR/><BR/> I found Norm to be honest, and sincere<BR/><BR/> There are those who, in the assessment phase, pick their pawns, patsies, patrons. During the manipulation, those around such people think they are really good, honest, sincere people. That's how it is played.<BR/><BR/> Jesus said, though, "By their fruit you shall know them".</I><BR/><BR/> <BR/>And I would agree except for I have never been a patron, patsy or a butt kisser. I've stood up to Pastor Generals and told them what I thought of them when most of you weren't and wouldn't. <BR/><BR/>Norm was never in any "spiritual leadership" position with me. The man was completely honorable in his dealings with me, both as a supervisor, and later as a landlord. As was his brother Russell. Those guys have amazing IQs. They are not good speakers, they aren't pretty to look at, and they aren't all that charismatic (in the popularity sense of that word). I mean really, have you seen Norm's hair? He looks like Mister Bean! And almost as clumsy for Pete's sake! <BR/><BR/>In fact they are just about the opposite of anything found in most of the spin-off leadership.<BR/><BR/>I would not follow Norm Edwards for doctrinal reasons, simply because I do not believe what he does. That's enough reason for me. But I'd tell that to his face too. I am not a sabbatarian and haven't been since 1994.<BR/><BR/>I see no need to castigate a man as inherently evil when he might be more properly categorized as too trusting and gullible about people he surrounds himself with. That's a forgivable trait in a family, but not so good when running a large organization with fiduciary responsibilities.<BR/><BR/>Herbert Armstrong kept Ray Wright around years after he embezzled a half million dollars out of the WCG. HWA got kicked out of the CG7 for embezzlement (he decided to up his own pay without permission). Ray Wrights' resume said he had international executive position at Texas Instruments turned out his history at TI was as a janitor. Lots of hucksters have come through the Armstrong movement over the years, and the more clever ones HWA just kept them close cause he knew he could control them. Its a bit like our current Whitehouse staff.<BR/><BR/>I've never pulled my punches on anyone. I'm highly suspicious of what's been reported about Norm, I think the motives are not so much protecting people as it is competitive sabbatarian organizations wishing to silence him. <BR/><BR/>Nothing is more threatening to these spin-off cults than for its membership to think of themselves in terms of a broader body of believers with like belief systems. They want all or nothing. Norm's a wild card in all that mix, and it bugs people, and I find that very interesting who gets bugged about him. They usually blast him anonymously.<BR/><BR/>Wade Cox or Pack he is not. A good administrator of non-profit funds? At least not so far..... <BR/><BR/>Don't ever forget the cults use the cult watch groups for their own purposes, especially if they can tar someone they don't like. Insiders were the life blood of Ambassador Reports. You can't overlook the competitive factor between these groups for tithe-payers. AMERICAN KABUKIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11064036099785125749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-7571767476473343652007-09-09T15:32:00.000+12:002007-09-09T15:32:00.000+12:00"I would never classify Norm among the ilk such as..."I would never classify Norm among the ilk such as Wade Cox or David Pack. Unless he's had some severe change of personality."<BR/><BR/>People do change, they go "shipwreck" so to speak. They can loose their principles over time and compromise to an extent they never thought possible when they were young.<BR/><BR/>Over time you can loss the "good" that was in you...<BR/><BR/>Gospel Thomas (97) "Jesus said, The [Father's] kingdom is like a woman who was carrying a [jar] full of meal. While she was walking along [a] distant road, the handle of the jar broke and the meal spilled behind her [along] the road. She didn't know it; she hadn't noticed a problem. When she reached her house, she put the jar down and discovered that it was empty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com