tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post3099978581601411891..comments2023-11-05T20:19:44.812+13:00Comments on Ambassador Watch: The Rebellious SonGavinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03060097218905523899noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-51257870876304457582007-08-01T11:14:00.000+12:002007-08-01T11:14:00.000+12:00Gavin, I did not realise your Bible was in such ba...Gavin, I did not realise your Bible was in such bad repair.You have been tithing too heavily, that is obvious.<BR/><BR/>Put your next lot of tithes towards a decent King James.<BR/><BR/>SeamusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-12798396550317828562007-07-31T23:47:00.000+12:002007-07-31T23:47:00.000+12:00"Another thing to keep in mind here: With the exce..."Another thing to keep in mind here: With the exception of first-degree murder, the death penalty was the MAXIMUM penalty for capital crimes in the Torah."<BR/><BR/>Well yes, I suppose that would be the maximum penalty one could get. :) <BR/><BR/>However, most Christians find that their priesthood has gone one better and bequethed them a maximum death sentence where you never really die or burn up. <BR/><BR/>I guess this is where grace shows it's power over law :) You gotta love the Priestcrafters...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-53698749054842752192007-07-30T17:15:00.000+12:002007-07-30T17:15:00.000+12:00Another thing to keep in mind here: With the exce...Another thing to keep in mind here: With the exception of first-degree murder, the death penalty was the MAXIMUM penalty for capital crimes in the Torah. I base this on Num. 35:31, which says that for first-degree murder, simply fining the offender would not suffice. This implies that charging a fine WAS a possible penalty for other capital crimes.<BR/><BR/>I don't know of any actual examples of someone being put to death for being a rebellious son.Doug Wardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17674898643642736767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-14731386315897094042007-07-30T09:42:00.000+12:002007-07-30T09:42:00.000+12:00someone said: "Maybe the death penalty for drunken...<I>someone said: "Maybe the death penalty for drunkenness and gluttony was harsh but if you are talking about the survival of an entire society...."<BR/><BR/>Wow..just think how different this planet would be if Israelite society, cultic practices, imagined history and ner do well daughter religions had been nipped in the bud.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, possibly a society which became obsolete at Mount Sinai. But by judicious application of various executions of children that were drunkards and gluttons, the society survived thanks to Moses' instruction.<BR/><BR/>No. Wait.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes ironic satire does not translate well to an electronic medium.<BR/><BR/>To be clear here, the Israelites may have actually had one or stonings and that was it. After that, zip, zilch, nada. If you note that the Israelites didn't even keep up with circumcision during their forty years of wandering and had to have a do over for their first passover after the wilderness, you have to believe that the Israelites of old, just as boomers of today had their say, listened politely [or in raw terror] and went their ways, never to even remember what they were taught.<BR/><BR/>The Israelites didn't have a personal copy of the book of the Law back then. At best they might have had the ten Commandments. They didn't follow this crap and it is evident they did not from the record of the Old Testament. They didn't have Gideons putting scrolls of Scripture into drawers of hotel rooms.<BR/><BR/>It would be easy to miss Ephesians 6:4, "And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord" and the places the Epistles address the brethren as "Dear Children".<BR/><BR/>See, the word "nurture" in reference to children is in the Bible. Armstrongists just chose to ignore the fact and made a travesty of Christianity by taking the new wine of the Holy Spirit from the New Testament and putting it into the old toner wine skin of the Old Testament. Or maybe it's the other way around. Anyway, the crap is out of the bag by now.<BR/><BR/>We should take the Armstrongists to the woodshed for a good whipping with a stripped sapling and not spare them because of their crying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-44085217557394404252007-07-30T08:21:00.000+12:002007-07-30T08:21:00.000+12:00How sad that these days some of these kids grew up...How sad that these days some of these kids grew up and houses divided over the changes parent/grandparents rebelled.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-41270984906370510732007-07-30T07:28:00.000+12:002007-07-30T07:28:00.000+12:00someone said: "Maybe the death penalty for drunken...someone said: "Maybe the death penalty for drunkenness and gluttony was harsh but if you are talking about the survival of an entire society...."<BR/><BR/>Wow..just think how different this planet would be if Israelite society, cultic practices, imagined history and ner do well daughter religions had been nipped in the bud.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-46616283880838730892007-07-30T07:19:00.000+12:002007-07-30T07:19:00.000+12:00"This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will ..."This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard."<BR/><BR/>Maybe he was a gentle soul and hated hacking men, women, children and babies apart for God. So he drank and ate too much because there were no video games to deny the reality of his Israelite culture.<BR/><BR/>Maybe he had been abused by one or more of the Levitical priests, didn't tell mom and dad but drank and ate too much for comfort.<BR/><BR/>Maybe he was a vegan at heart and hated the smell of thousands of animal sacrifices in the air.<BR/><BR/>Maybe his parents spent too much on sacrfices as instructed by the goofy Levites and Temple worship and he never got to go anywhere. <BR/><BR/>Maybe his dad offered to sacrfice the first thing that walked thru the door to YHVH and it was his little sister.<BR/><BR/>Maybe he liked a pretty little ..bite, ..ite or ..tite of somekind who explained why his religion was bunk and he loved her for delivering him, but had no way out. <BR/><BR/>Maybe he was way ahead of his time and realized that someday Karen Armstrong, Elaine Pagels and many others would be correct about the real origins of the jealous god of his ancestors who punished three and four generations ahead just to cover all the bases.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes that stuff makes you nibble and drink too much...:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-59461850053407228382007-07-30T06:43:00.000+12:002007-07-30T06:43:00.000+12:00This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will n...<I>This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.</I><BR/><BR/>The issue of the Scripture is the son is a drunk and glutton. That could be expanded to criminal acts as well, such as murder, cat burglary, bank heists and battery. Maybe the death penalty for drunkenness and gluttony was harsh but if you are talking about the survival of an entire society....<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, those religious drunks and gluttons become end time apostles these days.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-52203970710930136132007-07-30T06:34:00.000+12:002007-07-30T06:34:00.000+12:00Actually, the comment about rebellion is on spot. ...Actually, the comment about rebellion is on spot. The entire topic originating through Samuel Martin came from Herbert Armstrong, the Worldwide Church of God and Garner Ted Armstrong. #4 in the series is all about rebellion in relationship to child rearing. The WCG was forever bad mouthing "rebellious teenagers" [even when I was one in the Sixties] and being quite open about it.<BR/><BR/>My previous posting is about the ever present double standard held by religion in general and the Armstrongists in particular in association with this very topic.<BR/><BR/>The truth is that teens are often rebellious because elders have lied to them. The lies are covered up by using bogus authority. In the case of religion, the authority is the authority of the Almighty God. It isn't really, it's just cult leaders running around with man made religions attempting to do crowd control. When the truth comes out and the troops become rebellious, crowd control must turn naturally to damage control.<BR/><BR/>No, the WCG thing hasn't been figured out yet. If it had, we wouldn't have forums like this: "Ambassador Watch" -- or did you miss that?<BR/><BR/>People are still trying to find their pace after following the terrible advice of narcissists about child rearing -- people who don't have one shred of real understanding of nurturing children. They glom on to the Bible and find Scriptures to support their perverted evil obsessions.<BR/><BR/>The aftermath is some pretty mucked up kids who spend a life time trying to compensate for a totally lost childhood which never existed. It could never exist. The parents diverted all their resources away from the children to give everything they could to Herbert Armstrong and his cash machine. Children didn't really matter: They were just collateral damage. They were, that is, until somebody wised up and realized that if they didn't get the children in some sort of YOU program, the existence of the church would be threatened and the ability to remain elite within a caste system more rigid than the Hindus would be forever lost.<BR/><BR/>I say that rebellion against evil is a good thing. The dissenters make for a stronger association if their objections are valid. As with all heartless emotionless petty cults desiring nothing but honor and attention for their leader in a sick dysfunctional environment, any visionary calling for change is reduced to a mere rebellious troublemaker. <BR/><BR/>So here's the deal: Such organizations should either be transformed or completely obliterated. Any faction in society which violates civil rights and basic humanity -- particularly toward children -- are obsolete.<BR/><BR/>If it turns out that the Bible really represents the extreme dichotomy of either inspiring children to be blind pharisees of the next generation or to be whapped, beaten, smacked mercilessly as being rebellious, then the Scripture is also quite obsolete, leaving nothing to posterity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-86426716194579622282007-07-30T05:45:00.000+12:002007-07-30T05:45:00.000+12:00How'd this topic go from interesting comments to m...How'd this topic go from interesting comments to more ranting? I believe we pretty much have the the WCG thing figured out and can move on from preaching to the choir.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-52526658519301983302007-07-30T05:26:00.000+12:002007-07-30T05:26:00.000+12:00sooooo anon....how do you feel about things?sooooo anon....how do you feel about things?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-29702508642354875412007-07-30T03:16:00.000+12:002007-07-30T03:16:00.000+12:00There is rebellion and there is rebellion: The typ...There is rebellion and there is rebellion: The type of rebellion described in the Bible has nothing to do with modern life.<BR/><BR/>Generally, these days, rebellion has everything to do with teens coming to the epiphany that what adults have told them are lies -- or at least suspicious enough to be questioned.<BR/><BR/>As teens in the Worldwide Church of God under Herbert Armstrong, there should appropriately have been rebellion. Herbert Armstrong was a false prophet. He was immoral. In fact, if he had been caught with his daughter in the 1930s, he would have been convicted as an incestuous pedophile and would have suffered as the lowest of the low in prison until more righteous criminals finally did him in.<BR/><BR/>Teenagers at AC should have been much more rebellious and resisted the date rape by GTA of AC coeds. Instead, most of them rolled over and submitted like little submissive lambs and others even married the young women knowingly and submitted themselves to GTA being over them.<BR/><BR/>There were plenty of people who knew. They should have Shanghaied Herbert Armstrong, GTA and the rest of the conspirators, made them walk the plank and burned Ambassador College to the ground -- afterward to grind the ashes to fine dust, covered the entire with salt and boulders. Maybe a little plaque: "Warning -- contaminated zone: Do not enter".<BR/><BR/>In fact, teens today have no gumption. They should go to Edmonds, Oklahoma and wipe Ambassador University from the map and key hole the Flurries for their promotion of loathsome Idolatry. David Pack's domain needs to be removed. Roderick Meredith's ministry needs to come to an end in a lengthy siege for his part in his blasphemous partakings.<BR/><BR/>Where are the Macabees when you need them?<BR/><BR/>If rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, then we need a whole lot more righteous warlocks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28426681.post-90477532690530466552007-07-30T00:29:00.000+12:002007-07-30T00:29:00.000+12:00There is always something troubling about explaini...There is always something troubling about explaining a scary Bible text as:<BR/><BR/>Here is what it says...<BR/><BR/>However,we can't know what it means without opinions...<BR/><BR/>This is how it was understood...<BR/><BR/>Including this stuff that isn't mentioned...<BR/><BR/>Bringing us to the conclusion that it does not mean what it says...<BR/><BR/>And rarely happened...<BR/><BR/>"whew...so relax"<BR/><BR/>Nowhere in the OT, regarding children does there seem to exist anything in a graduated way of instruction. It goes from being rude to getting eaten by hungry bears real fast. <BR/><BR/>Of course, when we examine the story of the mocking of Elisha by kids who were making fun of his baldness and challenging him to "go up in the air" like the Elijah story...it really doesn't mean that either. The bears were loosed only after the courts examined the words used, determined why Elisha was bald, talked with the kids parents about did they actually see Elijah fly off an leave Elisha and and what were they doing skipping Temple School in the first place?<BR/><BR/>Of course, I'm only kidding, but why can't we just say once in awhile that the Bible is not a book about how to be with your children. Instead of trying to explain how the scary parts aren't all that scary and we can "relax"...few were executed, just drop the concept of the book being all that helpful. <BR/><BR/>Since the "nation" of Israel in the OT was one big crazy army (according to the text which doesn't really mean that in that way...:) "climbing through the windows leap, each unharmed," constantly blowing the horns of Zion and chopping down all in their way, because God told them to...how angry could a parent get at a kid that was a bit too cheeky as teen? A little sass and cheek might save his life in the wars to come when the Priests declare the season for war has now begun once again..."just as Eden was shall become a wilderness that's desolate....smmmmmmmmile brethren!"<BR/><BR/>:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com